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04-22-2012, 12:53 AM   #301
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QuoteOriginally posted by selar Quote
Well, some of us here, we shoot Pentax because its a venerable and time honoured brand, have decades of association with the brand, actually feel a loyalty to the cause, and are prepared to weather many storms with it.

If Pentax does fold, so be it, I will buy a couple more K5s and keep shooting with whatever lenses I have.
I was a loyal Pentaxian Ambassador until they were complete-cold-corporate to me. They could earn my trust back but they're starting from a negative baseline. I love to root for the underdog but I also agitate against loyalty to a group that eschews me.

04-22-2012, 12:58 AM   #302
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
I pledge not to buy a new Pentax branded lens until the new pricing policy is eliminated.
No offence, but this pledge is silly. By all means exercise your choice to buy 2nd hand or an alternative brand if you feel Pentax MSRP is unreasonable. But to 'pledge' and encourage others to do so, in the belief/hope that you have any influence over Pentax-Ricoh pricing policy is, to be blunt, delusional.

They have a long term strategy to GROW the brand. This policy is a small but necessary part.

They are not going to be swayed by a silly little boycott from a few existing Pentax owners.

How about this as an alternative: "I pledge to buy a new Pentax branded K-mount camera with a full frame sensor?"

Hopefully it is coming, but it will be because it is part of their overall strategy, not just because it has been asked for on this forum.
04-22-2012, 01:09 AM   #303
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kennod Quote
They have a long term strategy to GROW the brand. This policy is a small but necessary part.
We don't really know all the details, but the price history seems to indicate that the retailers felt it was necessary to sell the DA* lenses at MSRP.

Either

A) Pentax made a big goof in telling retailers what was acceptable;
B) Pentax made a big goof in 'growing the DA* brand'.

Not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things but I was hoping prices would've stabilized lower on some of the lenses (namely 60-250) by now.
04-22-2012, 01:28 AM   #304
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
I was hoping prices would've stabilized lower on some of the lenses (namely 60-250) by now.
And hopefully they will lower MSRP, but lowering price is different than changing policy.

04-22-2012, 02:38 AM   #305
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Honest question but what is so wrong about Pentax basically asking retailers to stick closer to the MFRP? I mean why is it some people think that everything they sell must be severely discounted or else forget it? I like low sale prices as much as anyone, but having pretty much the same price for a lens across the board most of the time is that really such a bad thing to want? That is what they're asking if I am reading this right? I just don't see that's all that bad really.
04-22-2012, 03:02 AM   #306
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04-22-2012, 04:19 AM - 3 Likes   #307
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I feel like I'm in Absurdistan. There's a pretty simple principle at play: If you can't find a product you want at a price you want, don't buy it. Hay folks, this isn't like Nestle, whose infant-formula marketing policies have killed many 3rd-world kids. It's camera gear. If you need it, buy it. If not, don't. If you want a product but don't like the price, either find a dealer with a better price, or find a different product. Boycotting Nestle makes moral sense. Boycotting Pentax makes no sense.

Last edited by Ash; 04-22-2012 at 11:22 AM.
04-22-2012, 04:27 AM   #308
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
It's camera gear. If you need it, buy it.
If only it were that simple - most of us are enthusiasts, and don't actually "need" lenses, we "wants" them. But big bad Ricoh says we can't have them!


Last edited by Ash; 04-22-2012 at 11:22 AM.
04-22-2012, 04:43 AM   #309
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Then buy s/h or wait for a rebate! Or just pony up and pay the extra 20% or whatever. If you can afford a $700 lens what's another $150?
04-22-2012, 05:15 AM   #310
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QuoteOriginally posted by riorico Quote
i feel like i'm in absurdistan. There's a pretty simple principle at play: if you can't find a product you want at a price you want, don't buy it. hay folks, this isn't like nestle, whose infant-formula marketing policies have killed many 3rd-world kids. It's focking camera gear. If you need it, buy it. If not, don't. If you want a product but don't like the price, either find a dealer with a better price, or find a different product. Boycotting nestle makes moral sense. Boycotting pentax makes no sense.
word.
04-22-2012, 05:42 AM   #311
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I'm brazenly wielding the "royal we" so don't take this personally (and I'm glad that no one has, for it speaks positively of this forum's user base).

No, I'm not upset. I'm just calling it for what it is. In order for a small or medium sized business to succeed, they need to make a profit off their products. And if they are being undercut by three companies who can afford to struggle over razor thin margins, they aren't going to waste their time, money, and effort into that product line. Simple as that. There are plenty of people all around the world, including in the States, who will pay more to keep their dollars in their neck of the woods.

Unfortunately, the sentiment expressed here is the opposite- decrying the loss of local competition between camera shops while demanding lower prices. Can't have it both ways. Either you will pay more to allow a small business to stock the items you want or you won't. Americans, by and large, have decidedly answered that with "I want the cheapest price even if I have to have it shipped 2000 miles." Welcome to the nation of stores with parking lots as big as the store. No one here can pretend that this doesn't exist.

I also never said that Americans are unique in wanting lower prices. We are, however, unique in how far we have taken our lust for cheap consumer goods at the expense of local businesses. Sorry if it sounded like I was moralizing, but you have to look at the whole picture. The U6 unemployment rate, debt, corruption, incarceration rates, child hunger, etc. all add up to a grim totality. Ignoring it and saying "we are all humans" or "everyone wants a deal" in an attempt to gloss over glaring social problems doesn't cut it.

It isn't Pentax Ricoh's fault that we have systematically destroyed our middle class, rendering an investment of few thousand dollars worth of camera equipment out of reach of the average American Pentaxian. No, our society sold us out for cheap goods on credit. Pentax isn't responsible for the flatlining of wages over the past three decades. Voting age Americans are.

All I'm saying is that we shouldn't be crying about how unfair Pentax Ricoh has been to us. We should be asking why we can't afford the equipment in the first place. The responsibility for that answer comes back to the voters- be they voting with dollars in the economy or with ballots in politics. We made this bed and now we have to lay in it.

Anyway, I've gone way off topic. Moderators can feel free to delete this post if they feel necessary.
04-22-2012, 06:40 AM   #312
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QuoteOriginally posted by selar Quote
I withdraw my pledge, on the grounds that:

a. The OP edited his original pledge (what kind of pledge lasts only days!)
b. The OP bought a Pentax Limited lens after starting the pledge thread.

:Hysterical:

Ok, Blue, I have long wanted to ask you, how to add that particular "hysterical" smiley.
The pledge has always said NEW lenses. Purchasing used puts no money into Pentax or their retailer's pockets. As for the edit, that is meant as a clarification. Do you want to have them go back to more market driven prices? That was my goal, so if they do so why continue the pledge?
04-22-2012, 07:35 AM - 1 Like   #313
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
I feel like I'm in Absurdistan. There's a pretty simple principle at play: If you can't find a product you want at a price you want, don't buy it.
Erm... that's exactly what people here are saying: "I don't find the new, competition-free Pentax prices to be acceptable, so I won't buy the product". Can't understand why so many people have a problem with how consumer capitalism is supposed to work.

EDIT: As far as the 'strategy' goes (not really related to the post I quoted), there's a reason that these 'bricks and mortar stores' are going bust right left and centre. Going to a store to pay MSRP for consumer electronics is the last century's business model. It's obsolete. Doubling your prices in order to get more exposure to that business model is daft.

QuoteOriginally posted by alohadave Quote
It places you as a bargain brand and you attract people who will only shop based on price. And it seems that it has had that exact effect based on all of the complaining I'm seeing.
As a result of this new policy, customers are expected to pay 1.5 - 2x the price for no extra service or product quality. Objecting to that doesn't make one a cheapskate, it makes one rational. The DA50-135 hasn't suddenly become twice the lens it was last month. <mischief>Unless I've missed the SDM recall announcement? </mischief>

Last edited by MrCynical; 04-22-2012 at 07:52 AM.
04-22-2012, 07:39 AM   #314
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QuoteOriginally posted by MrCynical Quote
Erm... that's exactly what people here are saying: "I don't find the new, competition-free Pentax prices to be acceptable, so I won't buy the product". Can't understand why so many people have a problem with how consumer capitalism is supposed to work.
exactly!

I was seriously considering the DA* 50-135/2.8; at $850 it was attractive, but certainly not at $1600 -- it's way over-priced now!

So, I'm getting the Tamron 70-200/2.8 instead -- it's heavier and not WR, but has more reach AND the $770 Tamron's optics match or outclass the $1600 Pentax (see photozone's analysis and web reviews) without the Pentax's SDM breakdown worries. In short --- the Tamron is MUCH BETTER VALUE FOR MONEY -- oh... and it's FF too!

QuoteOriginally posted by MrCynical Quote
EDIT: As far as the 'strategy' goes (not really related to the post I quoted), there's a reason that these 'bricks and mortar stores' are going bust right left and centre. Going to a store to pay MSRP for consumer electronics is the last century's business model. It's obsolete. Doubling your prices in order to get more exposure to that business model is daft.
exactly!

Where am I buying the Tamron? On the internet of course.

Last edited by Gray; 04-22-2012 at 08:23 AM.
04-22-2012, 08:31 AM - 2 Likes   #315
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QuoteOriginally posted by magkelly Quote
Honest question but what is so wrong about Pentax basically asking retailers to stick closer to the MFRP? I mean why is it some people think that everything they sell must be severely discounted or else forget it? I like low sale prices as much as anyone, but having pretty much the same price for a lens across the board most of the time is that really such a bad thing to want? That is what they're asking if I am reading this right? I just don't see that's all that bad really.
Oh Lord, I hope this doesn't start another one of those threads...

In a nutshell:
- some people think Pentax's new policy restricts the free market on Pentax lenses
- some people got into Pentax because they were a "bargain brand" and now maybe are not
- some people think that the new prices are similar to Nikon prices, and Nikon overs a 5 yr warrant on every AF lens, even the kit, whereas a $2000 Pentax lens has a 1 year warranty
- some people think that Pentax's QC is too poor to merit a price increase
- it is natural for people to dislike sudden, large price hikes, especially those who have stuck with Pentax through think & thin, and those folks feel betrayed

I may have missed a cause or 2, but you get the idea.
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