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04-18-2012, 03:04 PM   #106
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sol Invictus Quote
I would personally withhold judgment on that last point until the fall. That, I think, will be enough time to see the direction Ricoh is taking Pentax in. And that is around the time I will decide if I'm jumping ship or staying onboard.
I am not jumping ship. I looked at Nikon, did the math, and decided to take the track that led to this thread. If Pentax does more to alienate me then I may revise my decision at that time. On the other hand, if they do something to add value without again increasing cost then they may make me revise my stand on buying new from them. However, I stand by my position that raising prices, Ned's verbal judo and bs not withstanding, without adding value is basically a slap in the face of current customers and not an appropriate move if you want to grow your brand.

04-18-2012, 03:09 PM   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
We seem to be seeing people torturing economics, reason, and other things in order to get their jollies over what is completely indefensible - raising prices dramatically without adding one cent of value. Regards.
Good grief, nobody needs to justify or defend anything. This isn't a cure for cancer we're talking about!
04-18-2012, 03:09 PM   #108
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This pledge amounts to a boycott of the company that manufactures the gear that we all use. Would you be pleased if it resulted in financial losses and subsequent curtailing of plans for better cameras and new lenses? How about if Ricoh decides to shutter the Pentax division or sell it off to some other company? I'm not predicting that any of this would happen, but one should consider all of the possible consequences of one's actions.

Having read Ned Bunnell's explanation of Pentax's new pricing policy, I am satisfied that the company has thought through all of its ramifications and has come to the conclusion that it is a reasonable way to induce more bricks & mortar stores to carry Pentax equipment. This, in turn, would greatly increase the number of potential buyers. If the prices are so high that sales volume suffers disproportionately, then Pentax will either lower prices or offer rebates.

So, I take the following view: Pentax may not be perfect, and they are capable of making strategic errors, but we should at least give the company credit for knowing more about their own business than we do.

Rob
04-18-2012, 03:09 PM   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
"F*&^ the Americans they're all whiny B*st*rds anyway!"
Yes, I've been surprised by spiteful tone of some of the posts coming from outside the US on this issue. Pentax lenses are ridiculously priced in South Africa - e.g. FA 31 is the equivalent of US$1,900 to US$2,500 from those B&M stores that still sell Pentax, but almost never have stock. High margins alone don't seem to have encouraged our B&Ms; advertising and marketing is missing because Pentax in SA is the walking dead.

Here in SA I only buy Sigma lenses new because prices are reasonable; the local market for used Pentax lenses however is quite big, with many early pre-FA lenses, but the market becomes GIGANTIC if one includes the Internet, which is where I get my Pentax lenses.

So I support the pledge (as a friend).


Last edited by Gray; 04-18-2012 at 03:21 PM.
04-18-2012, 03:12 PM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gray Quote
Yes, I've been surprised by spiteful tone of some of the posts coming from outside the US on this issue. Pentax lenses are ridiculously priced in South Africa - e.g. FA 31 is the equivalent of US$1,900 to US$2,500 from those B&M stores that still offer Pentax.

Here in SA I only buy Sigma lenses new; the local market for used Pentax lenses is quite big, but GIGANTIC if one includes the Internet, which is where I get my Pentax lenses.
Thanks. I didn't think I had a thin skin but was beginning to wonder with some of the comments. Do folks actually pay $1900-2500 locally rather than order from B&H/Adorama?
04-18-2012, 03:14 PM   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by Quicksand Quote
Good grief, nobody needs to justify or defend anything. This isn't a cure for cancer we're talking about!
Sorry, but I do think that companies owe something to their customers - value for money and to not BS them. Defending a sharp rise in prices is precisely what oh so many here have tortured logic to do.
04-18-2012, 03:15 PM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
I am not jumping ship. I looked at Nikon, did the math, and decided to take the track that led to this thread. If Pentax does more to alienate me then I may revise my decision at that time. On the other hand, if they do something to add value without again increasing cost then they may make me revise my stand on buying new from them. However, I stand by my position that raising prices, Ned's verbal judo and bs not withstanding, without adding value is basically a slap in the face of current customers and not an appropriate move if you want to grow your brand.
I don't disagree and definitely sympathize. However I think this is a small, albeit painful part of a larger plan to make Pentax a more serious player again. They need to address more issues such as warranties and support for the plan to become definitive in my mind. I think you have your well justified doubts about that. Frankly neither of us will know for a few months more.

Last edited by Sol Invictus; 04-18-2012 at 03:32 PM.
04-18-2012, 03:21 PM   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sol Invictus Quote
I don't disagree and definitely sympathize. However I think this is a small albeit painful part of a larger plan to make Pentax a more serious player again. They need to address more issues such as warranties and support for the plan to become definitive in my mind. I think you have your well justified doubts about that. Frankly neither of us will know for a few months more.
Agreed.

04-18-2012, 03:21 PM   #114
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/me takes the pledge and files it in the round bin.
04-18-2012, 03:30 PM   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Do folks actually pay $1900-2500 locally rather than order from B&H/Adorama?
No, I don't think so -- that would be insane. That's why dealers never have stock of the FA31, and one has to wait for Pentax SA to import it specially. Pentax users in SA do buy from B&H/Adorama or anywhere else that can offer better prices. The risk is that one gets a dud lens, but their return policies are very good.

The Internet changes everything.

Last edited by Gray; 04-18-2012 at 03:38 PM.
04-18-2012, 03:36 PM   #116
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From Ned's blog:

"...when the prices settle down, I think you'll see we're competitive and I don't think it's apples to apples to compare a "limited" lens like the DA 21 with standard 20mm lenses - totally different construction, weight optics etc." - Ned, responding to a comment.
04-18-2012, 04:27 PM   #117
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gray Quote
No, I don't think so -- that would be insane. That's why dealers never have stock of the FA31, and one has to wait for Pentax SA to import it specially. Pentax users in SA do buy from B&H/Adorama or anywhere else that can offer better prices. The risk is that one gets a dud lens, but their return policies are very good.

The Internet changes everything.
I thought that might be the case but with import laws and other artificial barriers one never knows for certain without asking.
04-18-2012, 04:28 PM   #118
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
From Ned's blog:

"...when the prices settle down, I think you'll see we're competitive and I don't think it's apples to apples to compare a "limited" lens like the DA 21 with standard 20mm lenses - totally different construction, weight optics etc." - Ned, responding to a comment.

How about the SDM lenses, is it ok to compare them and their mechnical faults and optical qualities in a price for value comparison with other makers - is Pentax going to allow that? Should I tug my forelock when I ask these questions, what is the protocol now that Pentax can do no wrong?
04-18-2012, 04:36 PM   #119
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You'll have to ask Ned, I can't since I have no forelock - nor much other hair - to tug.

I do find it encouraging that he implies some prices will drop, but I fear they won't on the Limiteds.
04-18-2012, 04:43 PM   #120
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
You'll have to ask Ned, I can't since I have no forelock - nor much other hair - to tug.

I do find it encouraging that he implies some prices will drop, but I fear they won't on the Limiteds.
I read what he wrote and the only clear implication is that prices will be in the Nikon Canon ballpark but that they will occasionally offer us rebates. There again, we'll be at their beck and call because we are NOT the customer. Please remember that, you and I are NOT Pentax's customers.
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