DA-Ltds: A few questions to answer please...

rashdown_online · 05-02-2012, 01:03 AM

Hi all.

I'm new to Pentax and am busy researching Pentax kit before I take the plunge with a K-5 after I off-load my Canon 7D and 24-70/2.8 L.

But before I dive in with Ltds, I'd very much like some help in answering a few questions from those who know:

Are the DA-Ltds specifically designed for use on APS-C only? If I start a collection, and at some point in time down the road, Pentax have a FF body offering which I go for, will my money spent on DA-Ltds be wasted as they can't be used on a FF sensor? This will help me to decide to go for a FA-Ltd collection but will take much longer!!!
Are the focal lengths specified a 35mm equivalent? Or are they actual focal lengths on APS-C? i.e. is the DA 21/3.2 Ltd actually 21mm on an APS-C K-5, or is it 31.5mm on the K-5 (i.e. 1.5x crop).

I ask these questions coming from a Canon crop body with "L" lens and have no experience in the "specifically design for crop" lens market.

Thanks in advance and thanks for the patience!

Roland

aurele · 05-02-2012, 01:15 AM

First, Welcome on board !

Originally posted by rashdown_online

Are the DA-Ltds specifically designed for use on APS-C only? If I start a collection, and at some point in time down the road, Pentax have a FF body offering which I go for, will my money spent on DA-Ltds be wasted as they can't be used on a FF sensor? This will help me to decide to go for a FA-Ltd collection but will take much longer!!!

DA stand for DigitAl.
FA stand for Film

So DA ltd cannot be used on FF without heavy vignetting. There are 2 exception : the DA 40 and the DA 70. Both can be use on FF with almost no visible vignetting.

See here : https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/31629-da-lens-...ts-thread.html

the FA ltd are more expensive but with bigger aperture and design for film (so they work fine on APS-C)

Originally posted by rashdown_online

Are the focal lengths specified a 35mm equivalent? Or are they actual focal lengths on APS-C? i.e. is the DA 21/3.2 Ltd actually 21mm on an APS-C K-5, or is it 31.5mm on the K-5 (i.e. 1.5x crop).

The 21 is equal to a 31.5 concerning framing.
It does work exactly as it did on your 7D : your 24-70 offered you a 35-105 FF equivalent in framing.

If you have any other question, you are welcome

rashdown_online · 05-02-2012, 01:41 AM

Thanks for the reply, and that's just what I was expecting for the framing question.

As for the DA/FA bit: again, thanks for the point o the discussion.

Cheers

callmeraymon · 05-02-2012, 01:43 AM

The more I think about it, a DA 21mm should be just that, 21mm, since you aren't really supposed to use it on a FF body.

Edvinas · 05-02-2012, 01:48 AM

Focal length is lens property, it doesn't matter what kind of camera you mount that lens. 21mm lens will be 21mm lens both on APS-C and FF.

wjjstu · 05-02-2012, 02:19 AM

Originally posted by rashdown_online

Hi all.

I'm new to Pentax and am busy researching Pentax kit before I take the plunge with a K-5 after I off-load my Canon 7D and 24-70/2.8 L.

But before I dive in with Ltds, I'd very much like some help in answering a few questions from those who know:

Are the DA-Ltds specifically designed for use on APS-C only? If I start a collection, and at some point in time down the road, Pentax have a FF body offering which I go for, will my money spent on DA-Ltds be wasted as they can't be used on a FF sensor? This will help me to decide to go for a FA-Ltd collection but will take much longer!!!
Are the focal lengths specified a 35mm equivalent? Or are they actual focal lengths on APS-C? i.e. is the DA 21/3.2 Ltd actually 21mm on an APS-C K-5, or is it 31.5mm on the K-5 (i.e. 1.5x crop).

I ask these questions coming from a Canon crop body with "L" lens and have no experience in the "specifically design for crop" lens market.

Thanks in advance and thanks for the patience!

Roland

Why sell your Canon gear now unless it is not meeting your needs? There's no harm in waiting for a bit to see if a FF Pentax emerges later this year.

DA lenses have a smaller than FF imaging circle so play it safe and assume they will only work fully on crop bodies*.

* there are a handful of exceptions but quality of images are not guaranteed

gtl · 05-02-2012, 02:48 AM

Looking at the prices of Pentax glass in USA now, I would seriously think twice about jumping on the Pentax bandwagon. Or if you do, get the FA limiteds if you could live with the slower focusing and lack of quick shift. Prices for that have not increased. And when the mythical FF finally emerges at photokina, you have the chance to fully exploit the FA limiteds.

bdery · 05-02-2012, 04:48 AM

I'd say you can wait forever about a hypothetical FF camera that will offer no advantage to what's currently available, or purchase a camera and lenses NOW and starrt taking pictures.

A lens's focal length is independant on the sensor behind it.

the limiteds are never going to become "useless"

At worst you can sell them.

I have yet to hear one single argument that would convince me that people need full frame. If you need ludicrous resolution, then it's a medium format you need, otherwise a modern APS-C with modern lenses is much better than a non-existing full frame camera with only older lenses to work with.

twitch · 05-02-2012, 05:19 AM

The prime kit to build is DA15, FA31, FA77. With that kit there is no compromise on iq, and whatever Pentax do or don't release down the track you're OK.

jk333 · 05-02-2012, 06:16 AM

Originally posted by Edvinas

Focal length is lens property, it doesn't matter what kind of camera you mount that lens. 21mm lens will be 21mm lens both on APS-C and FF.

Of course. But in reality, people equate field of view and focal length. For example, "Yeah, I took that shot at 185mm, f/2.8 at ISO 800. It came out good, my 70 - 200 lens is great."

If all cameras were APS-C then the 21mm notation would be helpful... Canon P&S cameras have 21mm lenses too. It's a VERY telephoto FOV.

jk333 · 05-02-2012, 06:23 AM

Originally posted by twitch

The prime kit to build is DA15, FA31, FA77. With that kit there is no compromise on iq, and whatever Pentax do or don't release down the track you're OK.

According to the other thread the DA 15 will not work on full frame. Do you have other information?

LFLee · 05-02-2012, 06:36 AM

DA ltd, I believe the design strategy is minimize size while sacrifice a bit on the aperture.
FA ltd, have larger aperture, but also larger size (compare to DA ltd).

**sinus007** · 05-02-2012, 08:29 AM

Hi,
As other posters said on this and zillion other threads a focal length is a focal length regardless of the sensor size.
As for the DA lenses on FF, I believe there's a thread here or on dpreview (sorry don't remember) with test results that showed that some DA lenses are OK and some make slight vignetting.

alphanerd · 05-02-2012, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by jk333

According to the other thread the DA 15 will not work on full frame. Do you have other information?

It will not work on FF. However, the prices on limiteds is pretty stiff. If you buy it used for ~$400, you will be able to sell it used for ~$400. Also, it may be useful if Pentax allows their FF camera to take a cropped photo like Nikon does.

gtl · 05-02-2012, 09:22 AM

In a nutshell, the DA40mm and the DA70mm would work on FF. But for the price of a DA70mm new, its perhaps wiser to consider the FA77mm. If bought used, the difference is non existent.

05-02-2012, 01:03 AM	#1
rashdown_online New Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Photos: Albums Posts: 22	DA-Ltds: A few questions to answer please... Hi all. I'm new to Pentax and am busy researching Pentax kit before I take the plunge with a K-5 after I off-load my Canon 7D and 24-70/2.8 L. But before I dive in with Ltds, I'd very much like some help in answering a few questions from those who know: Are the DA-Ltds specifically designed for use on APS-C only? If I start a collection, and at some point in time down the road, Pentax have a FF body offering which I go for, will my money spent on DA-Ltds be wasted as they can't be used on a FF sensor? This will help me to decide to go for a FA-Ltd collection but will take much longer!!! Are the focal lengths specified a 35mm equivalent? Or are they actual focal lengths on APS-C? i.e. is the DA 21/3.2 Ltd actually 21mm on an APS-C K-5, or is it 31.5mm on the K-5 (i.e. 1.5x crop). I ask these questions coming from a Canon crop body with "L" lens and have no experience in the "specifically design for crop" lens market. Thanks in advance and thanks for the patience! Roland

05-02-2012, 02:19 AM	#6
wjjstu Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 181	Originally posted by rashdown_online Hi all. I'm new to Pentax and am busy researching Pentax kit before I take the plunge with a K-5 after I off-load my Canon 7D and 24-70/2.8 L. But before I dive in with Ltds, I'd very much like some help in answering a few questions from those who know: Are the DA-Ltds specifically designed for use on APS-C only? If I start a collection, and at some point in time down the road, Pentax have a FF body offering which I go for, will my money spent on DA-Ltds be wasted as they can't be used on a FF sensor? This will help me to decide to go for a FA-Ltd collection but will take much longer!!! Are the focal lengths specified a 35mm equivalent? Or are they actual focal lengths on APS-C? i.e. is the DA 21/3.2 Ltd actually 21mm on an APS-C K-5, or is it 31.5mm on the K-5 (i.e. 1.5x crop). I ask these questions coming from a Canon crop body with "L" lens and have no experience in the "specifically design for crop" lens market. Thanks in advance and thanks for the patience! Roland Why sell your Canon gear now unless it is not meeting your needs? There's no harm in waiting for a bit to see if a FF Pentax emerges later this year. DA lenses have a smaller than FF imaging circle so play it safe and assume they will only work fully on crop bodies. there are a handful of exceptions but quality of images are not guaranteed

05-02-2012, 09:22 AM	#15
gtl Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 349	In a nutshell, the DA40mm and the DA70mm would work on FF. But for the price of a DA70mm new, its perhaps wiser to consider the FA77mm. If bought used, the difference is non existent. Last edited by gtl; 05-02-2012 at 11:19 AM.

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05-02-2012, 01:15 AM	#2
aurele Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Paris, France Photos: Albums Posts: 3,217	First, Welcome on board ! Originally posted by rashdown_online Are the DA-Ltds specifically designed for use on APS-C only? If I start a collection, and at some point in time down the road, Pentax have a FF body offering which I go for, will my money spent on DA-Ltds be wasted as they can't be used on a FF sensor? This will help me to decide to go for a FA-Ltd collection but will take much longer!!! DA stand for DigitAl. FA stand for Film So DA ltd cannot be used on FF without heavy vignetting. There are 2 exception : the DA 40 and the DA 70. Both can be use on FF with almost no visible vignetting. See here : https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/31629-da-lens-...ts-thread.html the FA ltd are more expensive but with bigger aperture and design for film (so they work fine on APS-C) Originally posted by rashdown_online Are the focal lengths specified a 35mm equivalent? Or are they actual focal lengths on APS-C? i.e. is the DA 21/3.2 Ltd actually 21mm on an APS-C K-5, or is it 31.5mm on the K-5 (i.e. 1.5x crop). The 21 is equal to a 31.5 concerning framing. It does work exactly as it did on your 7D : your 24-70 offered you a 35-105 FF equivalent in framing. If you have any other question, you are welcome

05-02-2012, 01:41 AM	#3
rashdown_online New Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Photos: Albums Posts: 22 Original Poster	Thanks for the reply, and that's just what I was expecting for the framing question. As for the DA/FA bit: again, thanks for the point o the discussion. Cheers

05-02-2012, 01:43 AM	#4
callmeraymon Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 61	The more I think about it, a DA 21mm should be just that, 21mm, since you aren't really supposed to use it on a FF body.

05-02-2012, 01:48 AM	#5
Edvinas Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kaunas Posts: 1,458	Focal length is lens property, it doesn't matter what kind of camera you mount that lens. 21mm lens will be 21mm lens both on APS-C and FF.

05-02-2012, 02:48 AM	#7
gtl Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 349	Looking at the prices of Pentax glass in USA now, I would seriously think twice about jumping on the Pentax bandwagon. Or if you do, get the FA limiteds if you could live with the slower focusing and lack of quick shift. Prices for that have not increased. And when the mythical FF finally emerges at photokina, you have the chance to fully exploit the FA limiteds.

05-02-2012, 04:48 AM	#8
bdery Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Quebec city, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,356	I'd say you can wait forever about a hypothetical FF camera that will offer no advantage to what's currently available, or purchase a camera and lenses NOW and starrt taking pictures. A lens's focal length is independant on the sensor behind it. the limiteds are never going to become "useless" At worst you can sell them. I have yet to hear one single argument that would convince me that people need full frame. If you need ludicrous resolution, then it's a medium format you need, otherwise a modern APS-C with modern lenses is much better than a non-existing full frame camera with only older lenses to work with.

05-02-2012, 05:19 AM	#9
twitch Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4,571	The prime kit to build is DA15, FA31, FA77. With that kit there is no compromise on iq, and whatever Pentax do or don't release down the track you're OK.

05-02-2012, 06:16 AM	#10
jk333 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: bev Posts: 181	Originally posted by Edvinas Focal length is lens property, it doesn't matter what kind of camera you mount that lens. 21mm lens will be 21mm lens both on APS-C and FF. Of course. But in reality, people equate field of view and focal length. For example, "Yeah, I took that shot at 185mm, f/2.8 at ISO 800. It came out good, my 70 - 200 lens is great." If all cameras were APS-C then the 21mm notation would be helpful... Canon P&S cameras have 21mm lenses too. It's a VERY telephoto FOV.

05-02-2012, 06:23 AM	#11
jk333 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: bev Posts: 181	Originally posted by twitch The prime kit to build is DA15, FA31, FA77. With that kit there is no compromise on iq, and whatever Pentax do or don't release down the track you're OK. According to the other thread the DA 15 will not work on full frame. Do you have other information?

05-02-2012, 06:36 AM	#12
LFLee Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Southern California Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,292	DA ltd, I believe the design strategy is minimize size while sacrifice a bit on the aperture. FA ltd, have larger aperture, but also larger size (compare to DA ltd).

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05-02-2012, 08:29 AM	#13
sinus007 Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Cleveland, OH, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 292	Hi, As other posters said on this and zillion other threads a focal length is a focal length regardless of the sensor size. As for the DA lenses on FF, I believe there's a thread here or on dpreview (sorry don't remember) with test results that showed that some DA lenses are OK and some make slight vignetting.

05-02-2012, 08:56 AM	#14
alphanerd Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 119	Originally posted by jk333 According to the other thread the DA 15 will not work on full frame. Do you have other information? It will not work on FF. However, the prices on limiteds is pretty stiff. If you buy it used for ~$400, you will be able to sell it used for ~$400. Also, it may be useful if Pentax allows their FF camera to take a cropped photo like Nikon does.