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06-13-2012, 09:13 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by paulh Quote
Beautiful examples, Stefan. Been wanting the Samyang for awhile now, altho the 16-45 would be a major upgrade for me as well.
Thank you, Paul. As I said, I had the DA 16-45mm, which I sold a while ago. It's a very nice lens, light and versatile, and if you want to pull very good quality out of it, use it with DxO, which greatly improves the quality of the images produced by the 16-45mm (besides automatically correcting distortion). This being said, I still like the images produced by the Samyang more (even if DxO doesn't support it... yet). They are better. Moreover, for me, most of the time, 16mm wasn't enough. 14mm happens to be my favorite UWA length. (I had the Sigma 10-20mm, also a very nice lens, but not practical for me, because I found 10-12mm too wide. And... the Samyang beats the Sigma in the microcontrast department.) In practice distortion isn't very noticeable with the Samyang, and in the cases in which it is noticeable, it can be easily corrected.

Another thing: the 16-45mm extends a lot at 16mm, which I'm afraid invites decentering in the long run--any hit the lens takes could decenter it. The Samyang 14mm is very solidly built (the Sigma has a very nice build too), and my copy is sharp corner to corner wide open. Decentering is a rather frequent issue with UWA lenses.

My advice is, if you are ok with the Samyang's weight, you can complement it with a nice Tak 28mm f3.5 (or any other cheap 28mm) and, later with a DA 40mm. There are plenty of underrated 28mm... Or you could go Samyang 14mm + DA L 35mm 2.4. (UPDATE: I see you have enough lenses to pair the Samyang 14mm with.)

My current travel kit is made of the Samyang 14mm + an excellent Gemini 28mm, for which I paid $40 (I also have a Tak 28/3.5, which is a bit heavier) + the DA 40. Together, these three lenses weigh about 800 grams, which is some 440 grams more than the DA 16-45mm. At some point, I intend to complement this travel kit with the DA 70mm--light and sharp, and prices are back to normal for this lens.

I'd replace the Samyang with a DA 15mm to reduce the weight of my travel bag, but it seems the DA has softish borders below f8, and even if it has other qualities (an amazing microcontrast), I still prefer my heavy Korean beast.


Last edited by causey; 06-13-2012 at 09:25 AM.
06-13-2012, 09:37 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by causey Quote
Thank you, Paul. As I said, I had the DA 16-45mm, which I sold a while ago. It's a very nice lens, light and versatile, and if you want to pull very good quality out of it, use it with DxO, which greatly improves the quality of the images produced by the 16-45mm (besides automatically correcting distortion). This being said, I still like the images produced by the Samyang more (even if DxO doesn't support it... yet). They are better. Moreover, for me, most of the time, 16mm wasn't enough. 14mm happens to be my favorite UWA length. (I had the Sigma 10-20mm, also a very nice lens, but not practical for me, because I found 10-12mm too wide. And... the Samyang beats the Sigma in the microcontrast department.) In practice distortion isn't very noticeable with the Samyang, and in the cases in which it is noticeable, it can be easily corrected.

Another thing: the 16-45mm extends a lot at 16mm, which I'm afraid invites decentering in the long run--any hit the lens takes could decenter it. The Samyang 14mm is very solidly built (the Sigma has a very nice build too), and my copy is sharp corner to corner wide open. Decentering is a fairly ordinary issue with UWA lenses.

My advice is, if you are ok with the Samyang's weight, you can complement it with a nice Tak 28mm f3.5 (or any other cheap 28mm) and, later with a DA 40mm. There are plenty of underrated 28mm... Or you could go Samyang 14mm + DA L 35mm 2.4.

My current travel kit is made of the Samyang 14mm + an excellent Gemini 28mm, for which I paid $40 (I also have a Tak 28/3.5, which is a bit heavier) + the DA 40. Together, these three lenses weigh about 800 grams, which is some 440 grams more than the DA 16-45mm. At some point, I intend to complement this travel kit with the DA 70mm--light and sharp, and prices are back to normal for this lens.

I'd replace the Samyang with a DA 15mm, but it seems the DA has softish borders below f8, and even if it has other qualities (an amazing microcontrast), I still prefer my heavy Korean beast.
Good points and nice pictures Stefan !

I use Adobe Camera Raw for correcting my 16-45's little drawbacks (CA, vignetting, distortion) and it works wonders. For the Samyang I used PTLens and it did a very good job at correcting the heavy barrel distortion.

My own travel kit consists of the 16-45, the A50 1.4 and the 55-300, so the Samyang could replace the 16-45.
06-13-2012, 09:48 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Matchete Quote
Good points and nice pictures Stefan !

I use Adobe Camera Raw for correcting my 16-45's little drawbacks (CA, vignetting, distortion) and it works wonders..
Merci beaucoup, Matchete
DxO does much more than correcting CA and geometric distortion. It actually improves sharpness through a non-destructive process called "deconvolution." DxO turns a DA AL 18-55mm into something fairly close to a DA* lens.
See the recently posted "Belgian" sets in my blog for examples of pics taken with the DA 16-45 and treated with DxO.
06-13-2012, 10:15 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by causey Quote
Merci beaucoup, Matchete
DxO does much more than correcting CA and geometric distortion. It actually improves sharpness through a non-destructive process called "deconvolution." DxO turns a DA AL 18-55mm into something fairly close to a DA* lens.
See the recently posted "Belgian" sets in my blog for examples of pics taken with the DA 16-45 and treated with DxO.
Love your Belgian set, Bruges is one of my favorite cities, been there three times already

I'd be curious to find out more about this special DxO treatment.

Could I send you some of my DNG files and see how they compare to my own CS5/Topaz Labs workflow ?

Thanks

Mat

06-13-2012, 10:16 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Matchete Quote
Love your Belgian set, Bruges is one of my favorite cities, been there three times already

I'd be curious to find out more about this special DxO treatment.

Could I send you some of my DNG files and see how they compare to my own CS5/Topaz Labs workflow ?

Thanks

Mat
Sure. I'm sending you a PM with my email right now.
BTW, DxO is a French piece of software.
06-15-2012, 08:44 PM   #21
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14

the problem here is quite obvious, its a samyang
06-15-2012, 09:39 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by forestG Quote
the problem here is quite obvious, its a samyang
Have to disagree there. The 85/1.4 is likely the best value prime portrait lens of any manufacturer, the 8mm has a fisheye projection style that doesn't exist anywhere else and is highly sought after, the 35/1.4 is excellent, and the 14 tops the charts in all areas other than distortion and physical size. I think the Samyang brand is quite good with the last few years of releases.

Last edited by jeffshaddix; 06-16-2012 at 07:13 AM.
06-16-2012, 12:46 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffshaddix Quote
the 35/2 is excellent
I think you meant the 35/1.4.

06-16-2012, 12:50 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Matchete Quote
I've never had issues with manual focus on portrait lenses, but this one requires very precise focus, and as the focus throw is very long, it's time consuming.
Perhaps because it's not a portrait lens? It is much harder to accurately focus a wide angle lens using a DSLR viewfinder than a short telephoto.

You would probably find it easier to focus on the K-01 using LiveView.

The resolution of this lens is impressive, according to the lenstip examples. If the DA 15 would be that sharp, I'd feel very differently about it.

EDIT/UPDATE 6/17: After using the DA15 on my EPL2, on which I can more easily check focusing, I revised my opinion on its sharpness in this post.

Last edited by Laurentiu Cristofor; 06-17-2012 at 07:43 PM.
06-16-2012, 03:13 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
The resolution of this lens is impressive, according to the lenstip examples. If the DA 15 would be that sharp, I'd feel very differently about it.
Samyang: 43 lp/mm center, 41lp/mm APS-C edge at f/8 on the D-3x.
DA 15: 49 lp/mm center, 35lp/mm APS-C edge at f/8 on the K5.

The difference between a big FF lens and a compact DA Limited.
Personally, I don't have a problem with the DA 15's resolution.
It is what it is.
06-16-2012, 03:24 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
Samyang: 43 lp/mm center, 41lp/mm APS-C edge at f/8 on the D-3x.
DA 15: 49 lp/mm center, 35lp/mm APS-C edge at f/8 on the K5.
and below f8?
06-16-2012, 07:13 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
I think you meant the 35/1.4.
Fixed, thank you.
06-16-2012, 03:16 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
Samyang: 43 lp/mm center, 41lp/mm APS-C edge at f/8 on the D-3x.
DA 15: 49 lp/mm center, 35lp/mm APS-C edge at f/8 on the K5.
Everyone has their numbers. Here are dxomark's:

14mm/D7000: 57lpmm
15mm/K-5: 37lpmm

These are the top scores at any aperture. For behavior across all apertures, check the resolution graph - it never gets green for the DA15 - yellow is the closest it gets to green.

Now, we can throw all these tests away - the bottom line for me is that I don't find my DA 15 sharp. It may be a dud, but I don't see obvious signs of a defect. And if reviews are oscillating in their numbers so much, perhaps it's a sign of poor quality control.

EDIT/UPDATE 6/17: After using the DA15 on my EPL2, on which I can more easily check focusing, I revised my opinion on its sharpness in this post.

Last edited by Laurentiu Cristofor; 06-17-2012 at 07:43 PM. Reason: forgot to mention which lenses go with what camera
06-16-2012, 08:25 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Everyone has their numbers. Here are dxomark's:

14mm/D7000: 57lpmm
15mm/K-5: 37lpmm

These are the top scores at any aperture.
I don't find DxOMark's weighted averages very helpful in analyzing a lens's actual use in a specific context.
(This issue came up in a previous thread.)

QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
For behavior across all apertures, check the resolution graph - it never gets green for the DA15 - yellow is the closest it gets to green.
For the suitability on landscape, let's take the green MTF at the two-third field position at f/8.
The 50% figures (radially) are 24 lp/mm for the DA 15 and 27 lp/mm for the Samyang.
However, this comparison disregards the 5.5% distortion exhibited by the Samyang on APS-C.
Correcting that level of distortion typically degrades the MTF by an order of 10%
(compare Samsung NX 20mm f/2.8 ( W20NB ) - Review / Lab Test - Analysis, for example.)
So ultimately, all that size and weight isn't helping, you're just as well off with the DA 15.

QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Now, we can throw all these tests away - the bottom line for me is that I don't find my DA 15 sharp. It may be a dud, but I don't see obvious signs of a defect. And if reviews are oscillating in their numbers so much, perhaps it's a sign of poor quality control.
These tests do seem to suggest that you may have a bad copy,
or perhaps that the Samyang wouldn't suit you any better anyway.
Since you seemed to be satisfied with your stitching work,
that may be the answer for you.
For myself, looking at these tests and recalling the issues involved with correction
has reinforced my favorable impression of the DA 15.
06-16-2012, 08:34 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by causey Quote
and below f8?
You can check lenstip/optyczne for yourself.
Summary:
Below f/8 is fine for center sharpness,
but would not be suitable for landscape
unless you could make the field curvature work for you.
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