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06-03-2008, 03:18 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by thePiRaTE!! Quote
No matter what comes along, the good old 31 always finds a way to remain important eh? Dang, I've tried to shake it loose and it always ends up in the bag. The 58 has its own special mojo though. I am definately all about the Nokton right now.

Can you suggest any stand-outs that have similar traits as the 58 wide open? I'm rather excited to eventually get the T*25 back. Between its odd twirly bokeh and close focus I'm looking forward to seeing how it complements the 58 in this 'life as a painting' style.
Fa 31 is very different from Nokton not because of the focal length difference. Fa 31 ltd is very contrasty with strong colour even wide open. Sometimes I find shadow area can be quite noisy with Fa 31 ltd and the bokeh is a little harsh, not as soft as Nokton bokeh. Fa 31 ltd produces imperfect circle bokeh against highlight.

I found Voiglander Ultron 40mm f2 renders more "pop" in food images than Fa 31 ltd...

I am running out of money to spend on photography so I can only watch a series of new lenses being released but unable to purchase any of the new toys to play

06-03-2008, 03:27 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisPlatt Quote
Is the build quality of the CV SLR lenses as good as their RF lenses?
I'd love to have the CV SLII 40/2 pancake in PKA mount...

Chris
Oh, yeah. CV SLR lenses are well built. Ultron 40/2 is compact and cute. I love to use it a lot but I dislike its bokeh which does poorly against highlight - fusiform shapes ...

f2







06-03-2008, 04:52 AM   #63
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nokton 58

sorry for the late replies, but thanks k100d, james and dennis for your replies - i have tested the nokton further and really liked it too, tho i'm not good enough to come up with kelly's insightful and highly useful observations!

here's my humble offering shot with the 58 -

06-03-2008, 10:01 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by knyghtfall Quote
sorry for the late replies, but thanks k100d, james and dennis for your replies - i have tested the nokton further and really liked it too, tho i'm not good enough to come up with kelly's insightful and highly useful observations!

here's my humble offering shot with the 58 -

On the contrary Knyghtfall, you discovered the same things. Its just embracing that hazy, uncertain side of the 58 that is required to unlock its special powers, lol. It would be interesting to see more of the f1.4 shots on film you made.

The picture you post has a short telephoto quality to it, the seperation of the foreground scene dramatically from the background like that of a good portrait lens. Lends further credibility to the 'walk around' status of the 58. It gives a lot of shooting options at a fairly neutral focal point.

06-03-2008, 10:14 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by roentarre Quote
Oh, yeah. CV SLR lenses are well built. Ultron 40/2 is compact and cute. I love to use it a lot but I dislike its bokeh which does poorly against highlight - fusiform shapes ...

f2...


...
You make a good case (as usual) for the 40, but you're right, it is different than the 58. Not in 'worse' way, the shots are very fine, just in a less enveloped way. The subject is allowed to live without being swallowed by creamy bokeh... more... normal. I would suggest that the thing that I resented most about the 58 was the humble close-focus numbers. Not bad just not really interesting (1:5.25). The 40 fares even lower in these regards, and being a bit slower too, I think it is aimed at a different target audience than my interests could adapt. It seems all 40s have yet to tempt me to buy - the 31 being slightly wider, and usually faster than 40s again trumps even the urge to try this one for me. I need limitations, and the numbers here allow me that. I think its the only focal range I haven't seen represented in person (and the 60s... where there really isn't anything).

On a side note - If the 50's are 'normals' and the 30s are 'mild wides' or even photojournalist favourites (thinking more 35, but...) what is the calling card of the 40mm range? The red-headed step-children of 50 and 35?
06-03-2008, 10:33 AM   #66
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Nice shots. I'm kind of leaning towards this lens.
06-03-2008, 11:05 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by roentarre Quote
I had a chance to play around Zeiss 50mm f1.4 and the appearance is similar to nokton 58mm.

The manual focus ring is so smooth and enjoyable to use. The metallic build is really something else. I am still in the processing of getting a proper good UV filter as a protection for the front element.

It looks small but weighs about 300 g or so. Appearance can be deceiving
I'm interested in the Nokton, but wonder how it compares to the Zeiss 50mm F1.4 in terms of Bokeh, contrast etc
Photozone seem to prefer the Zeiss slightly (nikon mount comparison), but I realise his tests don't cover EVERY aspect of these types of tools and their application...

The Zeiss seems to be a tad more expensive too.

Wonderful shots by the way guys, I love this thread.
06-03-2008, 11:39 AM   #68
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I owned the Zeiss for a few weeks and now use (and love) the Nokton.
Have I to say more?

The Zeiss is a fantastic lens. The Nokton is a lit bit more creamy from 1.4 to 2, and the colours are a bit on the warmer side. The Zeiss is steped down perhaps a lit bit sharper. The Nokton is made very, very good, the Zeiss is perfect.

Best,
Rainer

06-03-2008, 02:37 PM   #69
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for the Zeiss,... how did you find the bokeh ??
since on photozone.de and some other posts, I heard,
that the bokeh is harsh.

did get the 58mm nokton,... and currently waiting for the katzeye split screen,...
to see, if I could get some decent portrait shots out if it.

also noticed, with IS enabled, outdoors, I'd get more often blurry shots, even with high shutter speeds, focusing is very difficult,... think an eye cup mag 1.2x,... to add,... the more I try, the more I think a AF 50mm is good enough,...

back to bokeh,... on aps,.. shooting 1.4 or 1.7 don't make sense,... since the aperture, does not cover the sensor, as such, it's just diffusion, if you'd like the effect, might as well get a hasselblad softar filter,...
think it needs f2.2 to start cover the sensor,.. as such belive, f2.4 and up is good for this lens, F2.0 still a litle glow , what might be what you'd want.

distance shots and highlights do have BA , but think for portraits, might not be a problem, seam to perform better on closer range.
handling is good, size is small, wish it had a clipon hood,.. did get an alu screw on hood, but is also to short, still makes it usable for buildin flash, what makes it a joy, aka lighter to use,...
next, need to get my old tripod replaced, to have a solid foundation,....
noticed on my Metz, it does not know the focal length, even thought I select it on the body,...

wish for a full frame asap,... so far no new from samsung / pentax,...
meanwhile sony is in the pits,.. .and canon will have a curveball too,..
and nikon be in the race up front,....
now that I develope slowly a nag for good MF lenses,...
the nikon also supports, zeiss and voigtlander,... not to mention , also some nice AIS lenses, ( my buddy has a bag full of them,...if I could only ask,..)
the 35mm AIS 1.4 be a good one too,...
the sony be good too, exept , need to buy sony,.... and the 85mm is $1400,... outch,...

now for an experiment,.... ( thought I did that a lot in the past), I pu on my leftover wcon .7 from oly on the nokton,... not quiet as pritty,... it's 105mm in front,... flares , like no tomorrow,... again,... at 2.4 start shaping up, and at F4,
actually like it better than the zoom, have not done live testing, and convenience wise does not make sense, it's another 2 lbs of glass and steel,... so a 40mm nokton, seams to be more logical,.. that one also comes with a closeup lens, for the pinch,... do mave also a mcon35,... just wonder if there is an say 0.5 or 1.0 diopter closeup lens,... most of them are too strong,... might as well change the lens/macro.

back to my corner, need to raplace my 54mz-3,... no p-ttl, no ttl only auto,..
no wireless, no hss,....... want to try out the ray flash,.. to cover portraits, closup, macro range,... but that one would not work in auto,... and don't want to use manual all the time,...


QuoteOriginally posted by TKH Quote
I owned the Zeiss for a few weeks and now use (and love) the Nokton.
Have I to say more?

The Zeiss is a fantastic lens. The Nokton is a lit bit more creamy from 1.4 to 2, and the colours are a bit on the warmer side. The Zeiss is steped down perhaps a lit bit sharper. The Nokton is made very, very good, the Zeiss is perfect.

Best,
Rainer
06-03-2008, 03:01 PM   #70
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Here's an interesting site with a comparison of various old lenses including the Zeiss 50mm F1.4, and the Voigtlander...
It even reviews the Zeiss 35mm F2.4 Flektogon I just bought on ebay for a small fee

Voigtlander Nokton 58mm f/1.4 SL II Lens Review - Digital SLR Lens and Camera Reviews

I'll quote this guy from the end of his Nokton review...

"... when compared to Carl Zeiss Planar T 50mm f/1.4 which is also being manufactured by Cosina. Of course Carl Zeiss carries significantly higher brand name recognition then Voigtlander and this seems to be the only reason for the discount - Nokton 58mm f/1.4 SL II can indeed give Planar a run for its bokeh, err, money I mean... So overall, very solid lens"

I emailed the site to ask if they could review some Pentax gear... lol
06-03-2008, 04:24 PM   #71
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just found the review, comments from Bjorn,...
Normal Lenses For Nikon 'F' Mount

guess that and the CA, made me think, the nokton is a good start,
probably , should just get it , and see for myself,....since I shoot, f2+, I might like it,...


QuoteOriginally posted by lbam Quote
Here's an interesting site with a comparison of various old lenses including the Zeiss 50mm F1.4, and the Voigtlander...
It even reviews the Zeiss 35mm F2.4 Flektogon I just bought on ebay for a small fee

Voigtlander Nokton 58mm f/1.4 SL II Lens Review - Digital SLR Lens and Camera Reviews

I'll quote this guy from the end of his Nokton review...

"... when compared to Carl Zeiss Planar T 50mm f/1.4 which is also being manufactured by Cosina. Of course Carl Zeiss carries significantly higher brand name recognition then Voigtlander and this seems to be the only reason for the discount - Nokton 58mm f/1.4 SL II can indeed give Planar a run for its bokeh, err, money I mean... So overall, very solid lens"

I emailed the site to ask if they could review some Pentax gear... lol
06-03-2008, 05:06 PM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by robsphoto Quote
...back to bokeh,... on aps,.. shooting 1.4 or 1.7 don't make sense,... since the aperture, does not cover the sensor, as such, it's just diffusion, if you'd like the effect, might as well get a hasselblad softar filter,...
think it needs f2.2 to start cover the sensor,.. as such belive, f2.4 and up is good for this lens, F2.0 still a litle glow , what might be what you'd want...
huh. This bit about shooting 1.4 on APS not making sense is confusing to me. I have to admit, everything I know of photography has happened since last August when I got my first DSLR, the K10. I jump into things, then read how you're really supposed to do it after I get stuck.

With the Nokton though, f1.4 is the REASON I like it. I guess I would have to ask, if it were just the wide aperture overshooting the sensor, would it not be the same effect then for other wide aperture FF lenses? I ask, because I have shot several wide aperture lenses but have not noticed this bonus diffusive effect to near the same level as given on the Nokton. It makes me think there is more to it than you suggest. The tip about the Hassy filter... I'll do some research on that, sounds interesting.

While I'm at it, more Nokton life-as-a-painting images (all 1.4 of course)




This lens has had the side effect of teaching me that sharpness isn't everything, its just one thing. Sometimes you just don't need or want it.
06-03-2008, 05:40 PM   #73
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Those images are just stunning.
06-03-2008, 09:32 PM   #74
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thanks for your images from you heart.
currently I'am trying to get to the sharpes point, but as you said, sharpness is'nt everything. so maybe I could do both , with this lens, learning,... need to go out and just shoot,...

note: the apereture thing, they way you use it in closer range, works for you,
once focus is in more distance, it realy does need to be stopped down to f2 to gain the contrast, the bokeh does not change much, since the sensor is smaller than the aperture.
maybe I'am just wet, behind my lens,... hope I don't get moldy,....

This lens has had the side effect of teaching me that sharpness isn't everything, its just one thing. Sometimes you just don't need or want it.[/QUOTE]
06-04-2008, 01:31 AM   #75
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Well said, sharpness is not everything. After all, every modern lens is sharp these days. A little USM sharpening in photoshop makes everything sharp too as long as there are no sharpening halos.

A lot of lenses have characteristics that are not easily appreciated by a lot of people. I guess photographers would get tired of getting sharp images after a long period of time since photography is not just about being sharp ...
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