Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
07-05-2012, 10:33 AM   #31
Site Supporter




Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Gabriola Island
Posts: 591
QuoteOriginally posted by weave2d2 Quote
I am not trying to be a troll, I swear. I have a k5 and k20, with 21mm, 40mm, 70mm, 17-40, 16-45, 50-135, 50mm A, I guess that's it. Great stuff, although I feel the standard fast zoom is dodgy and too expensive. So to the point, people are excited (rabid) about the rumors of a Pentax full-frame. I guess I'm curious about it too, but I would view the lack of modern full-frame lenses as a massive weakness to the system, and i don't think I'd ever spend >$2000 for a full frame body without the availability of reasonable fast-ish modern (silent motor) wide lenses (24-28) ultra-wide zoom, fast-ish standard zoom, affordable fast portrait lens, fast-ish tele zoom, and a few others. Really none of these are available new, the used copies are old FA and silly expensive. I don't see any of these lenses on the future lens road-map. Who is going to buy a full-frame (rumored) Pentax except those who insist on shooting primes (31, 43, 71, 100 WR) or already own some older FA lenses and feel they're competitive with modern Nicanons? Nikon particularly has such massive availability of legacy lenses (relatively cheap due to easy availability) and the commitment to full-frame system build-out, and potentially a "cheap" full-frame body coming out this year, that I don't see why Pentax would enter that category. Again, not trying to be a troll AT ALL. I want to hear some opinions- the situation baffles me. Thanks for indulging me. -Adam
I'm not really sure I see the point of the question. Presumably part of the planning process for a full-frame camera would be the development of a set of appropriate lenses. As well, a FF body that functioned well with older K-mount lenses would be very atttractive to people like myself who already have those lenses.

It would be a rare act of corporate responsibility for Pentax to properly support legacy lenses rather than getting lost in the mindless consumer/ planned obsolescence ratrace.

Used intelligently, many older lenses are capable of excellent results. Of course, that requires the photographer to understand what he or she is doing beyond knowing which button to push for which vitally important "feature".
I can't compare older Pentax lenses with new Nkon or Canon ones. What I do know is that I can put many of my old lenses on a K20 and produce honking big sharp prints, which means that in absolute terms the lenses are pretty good. Not being a fully brainwashed consumer, that's what matters to me.

John

07-05-2012, 10:40 AM   #32
Forum Member




Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 88
Original Poster
I would love to be surprised, don't get me wrong, if they blew the roof off at Photokina with a new lens roadmap, body, flash, whatever. If Ricoh has a clever plan then I'm all for it. I personally feel a strategy of doubling down on the aps-c category might be very smart, as the sensor quality steadily improves and the advantages of full frame are mitigated (though never eliminated probably.) The fixed focal length niche would be well served of course, and that would be cool, but I can't imaging it would pay off big for Pentax. As a show-horse the FF would serve a purpose I guess, but a very expensive one. The point about legacy lenses is valid, but I should clarify that I'm personally concerned with high-quality AF lenses (like the Nikon AF-D and AF-S.) I used to have a lot of Nikon gear and the screw-drive lenses are often very fast (just a bit loud in lectures as somebody mentions.) I can visit Amazon right now and get a new Nikon 85mm 1.4 D for $1200, and an 80-200 AF-D new for $1000. The Pentax equivalents are more expensive used, and really hard to find. I am a fan of many third party lenses (Tamron 150mm APO macro, and the like) however as somebody pointed out no camera maker would present a system which relies on third-party glass. What would entice Nicanon users to switch, which Pentax would need to increase they're market share up to 15%? I'm spewing a lot of negativity here, so I'll digress. Lots of valuable opinions and speculation so far, I appreciate your feedback, don't stop the music!
07-05-2012, 10:40 AM   #33
Veteran Member
sb in ak's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Homer, AK
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 571
Pentax would at least have to unveil a few new FF lenses if they come out with a FF camera. Then at least give customers a roadmap of other lenses they plan on producing.

It would be an uphill battle to compete headon with FF Canikon and their lens lineups. I don't think they can --they'll need to do something different, and I think they will. The key is in a compact, weathersealed camera.

Personally though, I'd be happy if they really spent time perfecting the high end APS-C with a few more lenses there. But I would be tempted by a FF.

And I like the screw drive. Sure it ain't no USM, but I'm all for less parts to break in the lens itself (which is the long term investment) and it allows for compactness.
07-05-2012, 10:40 AM   #34
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,893
QuoteOriginally posted by weave2d2 Quote
i don't think I'd ever spend >$2000 for a full frame body without the availability of reasonable fast-ish modern (silent motor) wide lenses (24-28) ultra-wide zoom, fast-ish standard zoom, affordable fast portrait lens, fast-ish tele zoom, and a few others. Really none of these are available new, the used copies are old FA and silly expensive. I don't see any of these lenses on the future lens road-map.
Just to summarize - all of these are available through Sigma/Tamron. If you're only considering Pentax, some of them might actually be on the roadmap, depending on how cunning you think Pentax is and how legally binding a color chart is.

07-05-2012, 10:48 AM   #35
Loyal Site Supporter
eddie1960's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,270
QuoteOriginally posted by John Poirier Quote
I'm not really sure I see the point of the question. Presumably part of the planning process for a full-frame camera would be the development of a set of appropriate lenses. As well, a FF body that functioned well with older K-mount lenses would be very atttractive to people like myself who already have those lenses.

It would be a rare act of corporate responsibility for Pentax to properly support legacy lenses rather than getting lost in the mindless consumer/ planned obsolescence ratrace.

Used intelligently, many older lenses are capable of excellent results. Of course, that requires the photographer to understand what he or she is doing beyond knowing which button to push for which vitally important "feature".
I can't compare older Pentax lenses with new Nkon or Canon ones. What I do know is that I can put many of my old lenses on a K20 and produce honking big sharp prints, which means that in absolute terms the lenses are pretty good. Not being a fully brainwashed consumer, that's what matters to me.

John
Given how many canon users snap up the taks and will butcher FA LTD to get them to work on their FF (not to mention shave the mirror box down on the camera) I would say their is some redeeming quality to the old lenses
Nikon guys have no option with the registration distance it's F mount or adapting medium format lenses

There are distinct differences in the way new lenses render versus the old lenses, and new WA lenses (24 and wider) typically outperform the old ones edge to edge. But many of the newest lenses are still drawing on designs from decades back with some modern upgrades (the glass in old lenses is no longer made so there will always be a difference.
Which is better in many cases boils down to taste because sharpness is not the only factor in a good lens
07-05-2012, 11:20 AM   #36
Pentaxian




Join Date: Nov 2011
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,735
If Pentax needed a decent wide prime for FF in a hurry,
they could probably work up a K-mount version
of the 25mm lenses they currently offer for the 645 format.

Could even build in some tilt/shift capability.
07-05-2012, 11:31 AM   #37
Veteran Member
Anvh's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,616
QuoteOriginally posted by ihasa Quote
FA 31/43/77
DFA 100
DA 35, 50, 70, 200, 300

Plus the new zoom lenses earmarked on the roadmap. Possibly.

And there's nothing wrong with 'old' Pentax lenses ;P
First off there is nothing wrong but you can not substain a market with just a camera.

Only the DFA macro lenses and the FA limteds are official FF lenses in production, Pentax can not promote the DA lenses for FF use even though some might work so end of discussion there.
07-05-2012, 11:33 AM   #38
Veteran Member
Anvh's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,616
QuoteOriginally posted by yusuf Quote
I recently tried some USM lenses and it really made me think that even if Pentax releases new body with all fantastic features (FF or APS-C), it can't match the overall performance of Canon/Nikon due to lenses.
Well if more actually start to buy Pentax they willl have more money to develop those lenses

07-05-2012, 11:33 AM   #39
Pentaxian
audiobomber's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sudbury, Ontario
Photos: Albums
Posts: 6,683
QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
Pentax can not promote the DA lenses for FF use even though some might work so end of discussion there.
Why not?
07-05-2012, 11:33 AM   #40
Loyal Site Supporter
eddie1960's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,270
QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
If Pentax needed a decent wide prime for FF in a hurry,
they could probably work up a K-mount version
of the 25mm lenses they currently offer for the 645 format.

Could even build in some tilt/shift capability.
yep a lens based on a $5500 lens is just what wen need in K mount

they could quite easily revamp the FA*24 F2 and get it out I would think, and the FA28 F2.8 and FA20 2.8. a digital revamp of those would be pretty easy. getting them out as SDM lenses in more compact bodies would likely take longer, but CAD has sped the process of lens design significantly (heck it's sped any design process). 2 of those 3 lenses would be very popular with the apsc crowd as well (the 20 may be eclipsed by the 21 for apsc).
Tilt shift lenses don't really need AF, once there is FF getting the old Tilt shift back to market wouldn't be overly hard (though it would need upgrades to at least A contacts to be useful fully) 28mm isn't really wide enough on apsc to use it though. In any case it is as low a priority lens for release as there could be. I think a true fisheye may outsell it now days
07-05-2012, 11:37 AM   #41
Pentaxian
Clavius's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: De Klundert
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,122
QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
Sounds like a great plan make a camera for sigma, tamron lenses and the old Pentax lenses.
The question was if there are enough FF PK lenses for an FF body. NOT if it would be a smart move from Pentax. See the original post.

And yes, if they issue a FF body that appeals to people, and release a FF lens roadmap at the same time, then I don't there will be any problem at all.

Last edited by Clavius; 07-05-2012 at 11:43 AM.
07-05-2012, 11:46 AM   #42
Loyal Site Supporter
eddie1960's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,270
QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
The question was if there are enough FF PK lenses for an FF body. NOT if it would be a smart move from Pentax. See the original post.

And yes, if they issue a FF body that appeals to people, and release a FF lens roadmap at the same time, then I don't there will be any problem at all.
and even if they do release 24-70 2.8 and 70-200 2.8 (where sigma already has lenses) some buyers would still opt for Sigma because of price differences just like some canikon buyers do. If anythin I think sigma would add lenses to the support if a FF was forthcoming.
07-05-2012, 11:50 AM   #43
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,893
QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
First off there is nothing wrong but you can not substain a market with just a camera.

Only the DFA macro lenses and the FA limteds are official FF lenses in production, Pentax can not promote the DA lenses for FF use even though some might work so end of discussion there.
Is that an ironic joke?
07-05-2012, 12:10 PM   #44
Senior Member
Neo_'s Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 153
QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
a) There is a need for new glass, but the lensline doesn't have to be complete for everyone at the start.
b) Depending on the targeted userbase for the FF line. Most users of FF don't need a professional service. Better service and repairs is something that is important for all customers.
c) New flashes would be great, but Nikon's CLS is very expensive and for most users out of reach.
d) All my lenses are ready for Full Frame, covering from 31mm to 300mm! So I guess I had a better plan!
Sure but I'm talking about a service camera for replacement, fast tracks for pros and things like that, why would you want a FF camera in your line? To me it sounds like having an Audi A8 or bmw series 7 in the catalogue.
Sure Nikon CLS is expensive but how many people are willing to fork out the bucks for a FF body? not me for sure, I'm more than happy with my k5, it still outperforms me and no I don't have that kind of money to invest in something that will not make me a better photographer.

Even answering to the original post, I still don't see it realistic or a smart move, Canon and Nikon are struggling to keep it alive just because they don't want to get in the mirrorless arena with everyone else, better to be a duopoly till it lasts.
IMHO
07-05-2012, 12:39 PM   #45
Loyal Site Supporter
eddie1960's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,270
QuoteOriginally posted by Neo_ Quote

Even answering to the original post, I still don't see it realistic or a smart move, Canon and Nikon are struggling to keep it alive just because they don't want to get in the mirrorless arena with everyone else, better to be a duopoly till it lasts.
IMHO
Once again, Pentax already has a pro service that currently comes with the 645D. they need to work on loaner programs, but for that they need to maybe offer varying levels from free priority (ie your looked at first and a replacement rental when available) to a higher end for cost service (Canon does this for instance - when you pay money you get it back in service discounts etc) You can get on the program if you can demonstrate you are a full time pro shooting with Pentax (they don't recognize bloggers yet though apparently) So the program needs refinements but it is there. the biggest issue is rental/loaner programs and turnaround time. this would have been partially the fault of hoya's cost cutting, something ricoh seems to be willing to address in all areas (they've been on a rehire spree for engineers at the design level)

As for canon and nikon struggling to keep it alive, don't know where you get the idea they are struggling. Both companies are showing continued high level growth in DSLR unit sales and the declines have been in P/S (which IMO is directly tied to cell phones). Nikon had a Milc (2 in fact) Canon has one coming. he D800 is selling so fast Nikon can't meet demand, that doesn't sound like a struggle in the pro segment to me.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
availability, expensive, fa, full-frame, k-mount, lens, lenses, pentax, pentax lens, slr lens, system, troll
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
K-5 Lens Selection - Please Help Eliglass Pentax K-5 11 05-26-2011 10:58 PM
Help me choose my Pentax lens selection Mr_Canuck Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 25 04-14-2011 11:01 PM
lens selection k20d radeb Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 8 12-26-2010 08:45 AM
Help with telephoto lens selection pacsman128 Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 10 11-26-2010 08:09 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:57 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top