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07-05-2012, 05:33 PM   #76
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QuoteQuote:
Pentax's original patent applications for the DA*60-250 and DA*300 state they are full frame lenses.
I tried my DA*60-250 on my Program Plus, it's full frame at 90 mm, at other focal lengths , not so much.

07-05-2012, 05:50 PM - 1 Like   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Those posting here who have not read this thread, should.

Sometimes, but not always, helpful: some images missing, many done on film.

A better source is Nam2@7676's stream on Flickr,
with FF Pentax lenses used on a FF digital Canon 5D II:

??????????? | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

The FA Limiteds and Tak 55/1.8 look good,
although the B/W don't tell about potential color shifts at the edge.

Last edited by lytrytyr; 07-22-2012 at 04:09 PM.
07-05-2012, 06:09 PM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by John Poirier Quote
They are big fish in a pond that is shrinking. That pond is the pool of professional photographers who have the cash flow to afford frequent "upgrades" of very expensive equipment, particularly when the output quality of that equipment already exceeds the requirements of the vast majority of clients

As consumers (even professional consumers) we'll never know the real numbers of either Canon or Nikon sales. Even people that sell these cameras professionally (and also pour over the numbers in shop) could also not really give us all an accurate number for anything outside of their company.

As for that pool which is claimed to be shrinking - it isn't. Full frame digital camera sales (such as Canon, Nikon, Sony) have always been good. As a matter of fact most retailers out there could never really get enough of the full frames.

On the consumer side... As for those that can afford items like the 7k++ full frame Nikon D3's or even a D4... The camera body cost isn't their main concern. We're talking about people whoo also have the genuine need for about 10k in computer hardware, and probably another 4k in software - and then how many lens'.

Then there's the medium format break-in point... for the price of D3 one was almost to the point of being able to afford a medium format system. Most of these are ironically not like the Pentax unibody systems. For most Mamiya and Hasselblad; just keep the body and upgrade the sensor - all for not much more thna a Nikon.

And yes there is a genuine client need for medium format; and also extremely high quality full frame images. As for the medium format clients; just go on either the Mayima or Hasselblad website. We're not talking isolated clients, but a great deal of clients

Or one could also take my word for it.

I currently own two complete Hasselblad systems and am getting ready to purchase the Mamiya Credo80. I payed off a majority of my Hasselblad H4 system in just one year of work with it - easily. I'm also able to pick and choose clients - and also still never get anywhere near having the bid-business.

A true creative professional could do quite well in medium format business.
07-05-2012, 07:08 PM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
However adequate the FA 24 might have been on film,
it seems to struggle to deliver digital border resolution on 10MP APS-C, let alone FF:

Pentax SMC-FA* 24mm f/2 AL [IF] - Review / Lab Test Report - Analysis
Don't know about photozone's copy of the lens, he always seem to be getting lemons from his 'donors' (actually Canikon saboteurs)

Mine is very nice and works just fine on my K5.

07-05-2012, 07:19 PM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
I doubt it's the case that most FF buyers earn anything from their photography.
Really?

I'm going to be selling all my Pentax gear (save perhaps one body and one lens) to migrate to the D800, 24-70, 24G and 85G. I would never make that kind of change unless I knew my business would recoup the cost.

I doubt there are hundreds of hobbyist out there who have enough disposable income they'd by a FF camera "just because"? Maybe I'm naive.
07-05-2012, 08:32 PM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by Medium FormatPro Quote
As consumers (even professional consumers) we'll never know the real numbers of either Canon or Nikon sales. Even people that sell these cameras professionally (and also pour over the numbers in shop) could also not really give us all an accurate number for anything outside of their company.

As for that pool which is claimed to be shrinking - it isn't. Full frame digital camera sales (such as Canon, Nikon, Sony) have always been good. As a matter of fact most retailers out there could never really get enough of the full frames.

On the consumer side... As for those that can afford items like the 7k++ full frame Nikon D3's or even a D4... The camera body cost isn't their main concern. We're talking about people whoo also have the genuine need for about 10k in computer hardware, and probably another 4k in software - and then how many lens'.

Then there's the medium format break-in point... for the price of D3 one was almost to the point of being able to afford a medium format system. Most of these are ironically not like the Pentax unibody systems. For most Mamiya and Hasselblad; just keep the body and upgrade the sensor - all for not much more thna a Nikon.

And yes there is a genuine client need for medium format; and also extremely high quality full frame images. As for the medium format clients; just go on either the Mayima or Hasselblad website. We're not talking isolated clients, but a great deal of clients

Or one could also take my word for it.

I currently own two complete Hasselblad systems and am getting ready to purchase the Mamiya Credo80. I payed off a majority of my Hasselblad H4 system in just one year of work with it - easily. I'm also able to pick and choose clients - and also still never get anywhere near having the bid-business.

A true creative professional could do quite well in medium format business.
I congratulate you on doing well, but from what I hear the picture is not so rosy for the business in general.

I think there will continue to be a market for big name professionals, for those with marketable specialties, and for aggressive hacks, but things don't look that good for the general run of photographers. At least, that's the message from most sources.

Yes, there is a need for medium format quality in some circles. Whether the number of such clients could be considered large is a matter of opinion. However, for a lot of what used to be bread-and-butter work, current DSLRs are more than adequate. The word is that in many areas photo buyers have become less demanding in terms of quality, looking for cheap rather than excellent.

All this comes to me second-hand, as I really haven't paid much attention to the business for a while. But that is where the weight of published opinion lies.

BTW, I retired early several years ago (Freedoom 54!) after over 20 years as a full-time pro.

I could have carried on, but I'm really enjoying having the time and peace of mind to concentrate on my personal work. Can't be bothered to push things hard enough to buy new gear all the time.

I certainly don't envy people trying to break into the business now, no matter how talented.

In any case, I hold to my opinion about DSLR makers being in a squeeze. It just isn't obvious yet, and may not show up in terms of public numbers for several years. There is a good deal of inertia both in corporate planning and in peoples' buying habits.

Full frame? I dunno. My next equipment decision point is in about two years. I'll go for something that will give me 24x36 inch prints that meet my standards, is pleasant to use, and cost effective. I expect to have a number of options.
07-05-2012, 09:01 PM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by FrancisK7 Quote
Really?

I'm going to be selling all my Pentax gear (save perhaps one body and one lens) to migrate to the D800, 24-70, 24G and 85G. I would never make that kind of change unless I knew my business would recoup the cost.

I doubt there are hundreds of hobbyist out there who have enough disposable income they'd by a FF camera "just because"? Maybe I'm naive.
I think you are a bit naive. Look at the number of people who buy Leicas. They number in the tens of thousands. I'd probably buy an M9 myself if I had that kind of dough- already have several lenses.

I regularly come across people with more money than brains, who have no clue about how to actually use their fancy gear.

Incidentally, I can't blame you for looking at the D800. I'm a couple of years from making the transition from medium format black and white film to digital, but if Pentax doesn't smarten up I'll have to change systems. More likely Canon, though, so I can play with my Takumars.
07-05-2012, 10:44 PM   #83
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I have a couple dozen lenses on my shelf in Pentax mount and only one is designed for APS-C...


Steve

07-05-2012, 11:55 PM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by John Poirier Quote
I regularly come across people with more money than brains, who have no clue about how to actually use their fancy gear.
I know some of those. They tend to blame their gear too: "Geez, such expensive gear, and then it can't even take a decent photo."
07-06-2012, 01:28 AM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by FrancisK7 Quote
Really?

I'm going to be selling all my Pentax gear (save perhaps one body and one lens) to migrate to the D800, 24-70, 24G and 85G. I would never make that kind of change unless I knew my business would recoup the cost.

I doubt there are hundreds of hobbyist out there who have enough disposable income they'd by a FF camera "just because"? Maybe I'm naive.
Well, it's all just anecdotal unless we get some hard data. Let's not quibble about the meaning of "many" or "most" without that. My experience, as I said, is based on people I know close to home. However, those people are active camera club members (who probably wind each other up about gear at every meeting) and mostly professional people who've got their kids off their hands and a reasonable disposable income. They're not starving artists or budding twenty-something pro photographers. If you really doubt there's hundreds of hobbyists with the disposable income, then you don't know many doctors or lawyers (I'm an engineer, so I don't put myself in that income league), but I do.
07-06-2012, 02:40 AM   #86
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Perhaps they should revamp their lens selection, and instead of reviving FA* lenses directly, use the formulas, and make it so there's something like a D FA* lens selection.

Edit: Also, sensor tech is constantly evolving, one must bear in mind that eventually we'll hit the point where smaller sensors can take on the same task larger ones currently can. Not that Full Frame cameras will ever be eliminated, as they'll be more like current medium format, and medium will be off the charts.

Let's just all hope that we get some lovely new lenses from Pentax. Perhaps a 55-300 WR? Or an updated 50-200 formula? Maybe an Ultra-Wide Zoom that isn't a fisheye? Heck if I know, I'm just hoping for more lenses, as opposed to bodies.(Bodies last 3 or 4 years, lenses can last 50 after all.)

Last edited by Eulogy; 07-06-2012 at 02:45 AM.
07-06-2012, 04:02 AM   #87
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My guess is if they ever made a FF camera we'd see the new lenses to go with it. They're hardly brain dead at Ricoh-Pentax. Why would they even bring out a FF camera and not bring out some new lenses to take advantage of that capacity? It just wouldn't make sense, now would it? But half a dozen decades of lenses and a FF camera with backwards capability I think you just might be able to find a few lenses you'd like to put on it. Of course that might actually mean having to focus for yourself once in while but if you're using a FF camera I daresay you can handle that.

There's nothing wrong IMHO with Pentax's lens line up. They're a bit pricey for me but they're making plenty of lenses for the cameras they're producing. Add a FF and they'd just produce a few lenses for that. Worrying about it now? Making mountains out of molehills, IMHO. (Sorry, a bit blunt there, but I do see it that way.) Honestly I don't care if they do or don't ever make a FF. I can't really afford a FF camera anyway. It would be nice to see them fully competitive I guess, but the cameras they actually do make suit me just fine. There are plenty of people out there shooting professionally, doing high end work with a non FF sensor and they're getting the job done. FF is nice, if you can afford it, but I'm not lamenting the lack of a FF camera in Pentax's current camera line up when they have so much else to offer.
07-06-2012, 04:05 AM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eulogy Quote
Let's just all hope that we get some lovely new lenses from Pentax. Perhaps a 55-300 WR? Or an updated 50-200 formula? Maybe an Ultra-Wide Zoom that isn't a fisheye? Heck if I know, I'm just hoping for more lenses, as opposed to bodies.(Bodies last 3 or 4 years, lenses can last 50 after all.)
Excellent suggestions on the lenses! I hope the same.

There's bound to be more profit for Pentax in lenses then in bodies too. Who owns a DSLR with just one lens? There's a huge LBA-driven market.

Nevertheless, I hope Pentax will issue a killer FF body. Whatever form it may take, (high-end, low-end, barebones, whatever.) As long as they do it right. It would do magic for the Pentax brand.
07-06-2012, 04:39 AM   #89
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Freedom comes with choice. Wished Pentax offered the ff choice, but they don't, ...
If they did, even without new lenses, I'd buy, instantly, almost without thought.
But perhaps one. Not so relevant for most ff-desirers: small and light, little specifics,
just like a spotmatic, but digital.
You may all need more, I don't. With 35(31), 50, 135, it will be fine.
Imagine. A really good viewfinder, allowing for normal manual focussing ---
once again. Just the matte.
07-06-2012, 04:40 AM   #90
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I'll get one as I have far more MF lenses than AF lenses - I am start saving, and selling some stuff to get it. Problem is what to sell, and saving money laying around will be used to get a new zeiss, or jump on a great deal, or vacation, or... Better if a FF come first then saving later - but I'll get one for sure
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