Not trolling, but who buys Pentax FF if the lens selection is inadequate?

Blue · 07-05-2012, 03:01 PM

Originally posted by RobA_Oz

I doubt it's the case that most FF buyers earn anything from their photography - I know several Canon owners in this small corner of the Earth who use the 5DII and don't earn anything from it. The number of lenses available also may not be a consideration - it should be the number they can reasonably afford, but human nature being what it is, no doubt there is a glow to be had from association, if not ownership!

Like others here, I'd buy a 35FF Pentax for the bigger viewfinder alone, but only if it was priced reasonably (subjective, I know, but I don't want to commit myself too precisely until I see what's on offer) and only if it was not much bigger than the K-5. The D800 looks to be a marvelous device, but the size and weight is prohibitive to me, especially after recently carting a K-5 and a bag full of lenses around Europe for 3 weeks.

Good point on the viewfinder. Also, wide angle lenses such as the FA 20 would be truly and ultrawide on FF compared to the DA 21 LTD on aps-c.

RonHendriks1966 · 07-05-2012, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by Blue

Good point on the viewfinder. Also, wide angle lenses such as the FA 20 would be truly and ultrawide on FF compared to the DA 21 LTD on aps-c.

The FA31mm on FF would be the equivalent of DA21mm on APS-C.

Blue · 07-05-2012, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

The FA31mm on FF would be the equivalent of DA21mm on APS-C.

That wasn't my point. My point is that the FA 20 is truly an ultrawide FOV on FF and the DA 21 LTD isn't on aps-c.

twitch · 07-05-2012, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by RobA_Oz

The D800 looks to be a marvelous device, but the size and weight is prohibitive to me, especially after recently carting a K-5 and a bag full of lenses around Europe for 3 weeks.

I agree, I got jack of my K-5 and 50-135 + 12-24 on my recent trip. My next camera is probably going to be an OMD for use as my travel and take anywhere camera. My K-5 will eventually be swapped for a FF DSLR for sports use & when I really want high IQ/ISO. APS-C DSLR's are good jack of all trades master of none kind of cameras, but the market is segmenting.

Anvh · 07-05-2012, 04:08 PM

Originally posted by Blue

That wasn't my point. My point is that the FA 20 is truly an ultrawide FOV on FF and the DA 21 LTD isn't on aps-c.

Yes and 20mm is even more wide angle on medium format camera, i just dont see the point?

Anvh · 07-05-2012, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by RobA_Oz

I doubt it's the case that most FF buyers earn anything from their photography - I know several Canon owners in this small corner of the Earth who use the 5DII and don't earn anything from it. The number of lenses available also may not be a consideration - it should be the number they can reasonably afford, but human nature being what it is, no doubt there is a glow to be had from association, if not ownership!

Like others here, I'd buy a 35FF Pentax for the bigger viewfinder alone, but only if it was priced reasonably (subjective, I know, but I don't want to commit myself too precisely until I see what's on offer) and only if it was not much bigger than the K-5. The D800 looks to be a marvelous device, but the size and weight is prohibitive to me, especially after recently carting a K-5 and a bag full of lenses around Europe for 3 weeks.

But thats the thing, so many voices, so here are drooling over the L lenses others want to use their old film lenses on it so it needs to be a camera that suit so many people at once. Sure you can buy a 5D or 800D but will they preform better then APS-C camera if you've better glass on the last one... it's a hard world this.

I doubt they can make it that size you want at the moment but who knows...
Anyway the size and weight of the camera is only small part of the set, just compare the lenses...

TOUGEFC · 07-05-2012, 04:14 PM

If they make a FF and thats a big IF!
I will only buy it IF they can match Nikon's AF/lens/flash system.

lytrytyr · 07-05-2012, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by twitch

I agree, I got jack of my K-5 and 50-135 + 12-24 on my recent trip.

You can travel light with Pentax
(and you more or less have to, if your travel involves "regional jets" at any stage).

I take a K-x, and either a Tamron 17-50/2.8 with an M100/2.8,
or else a 15-35-70 DA Ltd set.

RonHendriks1966 · 07-05-2012, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by Blue

That wasn't my point. My point is that the FA 20 is truly an ultrawide FOV on FF and the DA 21 LTD isn't on aps-c.

Yes I realize that. I sold my 21mm (wich was more then wide enough for me) and bought 31mm to fullfill that same function in future on a FF camera that the 21mm did on my K-5. For me, I don't need wider then that.

slackercruster · 07-05-2012, 04:25 PM

Why can't the current lens lineup be used?

I had a 80-200 zoom for my K1000 FF. Why can't I use the 60-250 on a DSLR FF?

lytrytyr · 07-05-2012, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by slackercruster

Why can't the current lens lineup be used?

Some of the DA lenses won't cover FF with good IQ.

Some appear to do moderately well at the edge of a 35mm film frame,
but that doesn't mean they'd send the light
at a good angle into outer pixel wells on FF digital.

slackercruster · 07-05-2012, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by lytrytyr

Some of the DA lenses won't cover FF with good IQ.

Some appear to do moderately well at the edge of a 35mm film frame,
but that doesn't mean they'd send the light
at a good angle into outer pixel wells on FF digital.

Well, I don't know all the tech details.

I had a K 1000 with 24mm lens that worked good for my FF film cam. Why wouldn't my 60 - 250 Pentax dslr lens work on a FF dslr? Would Pentax have to remake another 60-250 to work on a FF? Just don't understand it? Isn't a 60-250 a 60-250 no matter how you slice it?

...but as I said I don't know the tech end of lenses.

And if this is the case, I guess it will be something to look forward to as Pentax comes out with all the various lenses all remade for FF?

sjwaldron · 07-05-2012, 04:57 PM

While my kit changes with the times, 7 out of my 11 lenses would be fully useful on a full-frame camera. Having lenses like the 31mm and 85mm on full-frame would be worth considering a body if it ever does arrive and I can afford it.

lytrytyr · 07-05-2012, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by slackercruster

Why wouldn't my 60 - 250 Pentax dslr lens work on a FF dslr?

As a DA lens, it's nominally described as covering an APS-C size digital sensor,
so may or may not work well on a FF sensor.
(Perhaps a Pentax historian can help us out here:
were any lenses designed with the abortive FF digital in mind?)

The basic problem is the angle at which the light rays hit the edge of the frame.
With film, it doesn't matter if the rays come in at an oblique angle.
With digital, the individual pixels sit in a kind of well,
and oblique rays may not illuminate the bottom of the well properly.

Sandy Hancock · 07-05-2012, 05:28 PM

Pentax's original patent applications for the DA*60-250 and DA*300 state they are full frame lenses.
Those posting here who have not read this thread, should.

07-05-2012, 04:27 PM	#71
lytrytyr Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,310	Originally posted by slackercruster Why can't the current lens lineup be used? Some of the DA lenses won't cover FF with good IQ. Some appear to do moderately well at the edge of a 35mm film frame, but that doesn't mean they'd send the light at a good angle into outer pixel wells on FF digital. Last edited by lytrytyr; 07-05-2012 at 04:39 PM.

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07-05-2012, 03:01 PM	#61
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by RobA_Oz I doubt it's the case that most FF buyers earn anything from their photography - I know several Canon owners in this small corner of the Earth who use the 5DII and don't earn anything from it. The number of lenses available also may not be a consideration - it should be the number they can reasonably afford, but human nature being what it is, no doubt there is a glow to be had from association, if not ownership! Like others here, I'd buy a 35FF Pentax for the bigger viewfinder alone, but only if it was priced reasonably (subjective, I know, but I don't want to commit myself too precisely until I see what's on offer) and only if it was not much bigger than the K-5. The D800 looks to be a marvelous device, but the size and weight is prohibitive to me, especially after recently carting a K-5 and a bag full of lenses around Europe for 3 weeks. Good point on the viewfinder. Also, wide angle lenses such as the FA 20 would be truly and ultrawide on FF compared to the DA 21 LTD on aps-c.

07-05-2012, 03:07 PM	#62
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by Blue Good point on the viewfinder. Also, wide angle lenses such as the FA 20 would be truly and ultrawide on FF compared to the DA 21 LTD on aps-c. The FA31mm on FF would be the equivalent of DA21mm on APS-C.

07-05-2012, 03:21 PM	#63
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 The FA31mm on FF would be the equivalent of DA21mm on APS-C. That wasn't my point. My point is that the FA 20 is truly an ultrawide FOV on FF and the DA 21 LTD isn't on aps-c.

07-05-2012, 04:02 PM	#64
twitch Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4,571	Originally posted by RobA_Oz The D800 looks to be a marvelous device, but the size and weight is prohibitive to me, especially after recently carting a K-5 and a bag full of lenses around Europe for 3 weeks. I agree, I got jack of my K-5 and 50-135 + 12-24 on my recent trip. My next camera is probably going to be an OMD for use as my travel and take anywhere camera. My K-5 will eventually be swapped for a FF DSLR for sports use & when I really want high IQ/ISO. APS-C DSLR's are good jack of all trades master of none kind of cameras, but the market is segmenting.

07-05-2012, 04:08 PM	#65
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Originally posted by Blue That wasn't my point. My point is that the FA 20 is truly an ultrawide FOV on FF and the DA 21 LTD isn't on aps-c. Yes and 20mm is even more wide angle on medium format camera, i just dont see the point?

07-05-2012, 04:13 PM	#66
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Originally posted by RobA_Oz I doubt it's the case that most FF buyers earn anything from their photography - I know several Canon owners in this small corner of the Earth who use the 5DII and don't earn anything from it. The number of lenses available also may not be a consideration - it should be the number they can reasonably afford, but human nature being what it is, no doubt there is a glow to be had from association, if not ownership! Like others here, I'd buy a 35FF Pentax for the bigger viewfinder alone, but only if it was priced reasonably (subjective, I know, but I don't want to commit myself too precisely until I see what's on offer) and only if it was not much bigger than the K-5. The D800 looks to be a marvelous device, but the size and weight is prohibitive to me, especially after recently carting a K-5 and a bag full of lenses around Europe for 3 weeks. But thats the thing, so many voices, so here are drooling over the L lenses others want to use their old film lenses on it so it needs to be a camera that suit so many people at once. Sure you can buy a 5D or 800D but will they preform better then APS-C camera if you've better glass on the last one... it's a hard world this. I doubt they can make it that size you want at the moment but who knows... Anyway the size and weight of the camera is only small part of the set, just compare the lenses...

07-05-2012, 04:14 PM	#67
TOUGEFC Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,561	If they make a FF and thats a big IF! I will only buy it IF they can match Nikon's AF/lens/flash system.

07-05-2012, 04:15 PM	#68
lytrytyr Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,310	Originally posted by twitch I agree, I got jack of my K-5 and 50-135 + 12-24 on my recent trip. You can travel light with Pentax (and you more or less have to, if your travel involves "regional jets" at any stage). I take a K-x, and either a Tamron 17-50/2.8 with an M100/2.8, or else a 15-35-70 DA Ltd set.

07-05-2012, 04:18 PM	#69
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by Blue That wasn't my point. My point is that the FA 20 is truly an ultrawide FOV on FF and the DA 21 LTD isn't on aps-c. Yes I realize that. I sold my 21mm (wich was more then wide enough for me) and bought 31mm to fullfill that same function in future on a FF camera that the 21mm did on my K-5. For me, I don't need wider then that.

07-05-2012, 04:25 PM	#70
slackercruster Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: NE, USA Posts: 1,302	Why can't the current lens lineup be used? I had a 80-200 zoom for my K1000 FF. Why can't I use the 60-250 on a DSLR FF?

07-05-2012, 04:52 PM	#72
slackercruster Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: NE, USA Posts: 1,302	Originally posted by lytrytyr Some of the DA lenses won't cover FF with good IQ. Some appear to do moderately well at the edge of a 35mm film frame, but that doesn't mean they'd send the light at a good angle into outer pixel wells on FF digital. Well, I don't know all the tech details. I had a K 1000 with 24mm lens that worked good for my FF film cam. Why wouldn't my 60 - 250 Pentax dslr lens work on a FF dslr? Would Pentax have to remake another 60-250 to work on a FF? Just don't understand it? Isn't a 60-250 a 60-250 no matter how you slice it? ...but as I said I don't know the tech end of lenses. And if this is the case, I guess it will be something to look forward to as Pentax comes out with all the various lenses all remade for FF?

07-05-2012, 04:57 PM	#73
sjwaldron Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,235	While my kit changes with the times, 7 out of my 11 lenses would be fully useful on a full-frame camera. Having lenses like the 31mm and 85mm on full-frame would be worth considering a body if it ever does arrive and I can afford it.

07-05-2012, 05:04 PM	#74
lytrytyr Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,310	Originally posted by slackercruster Why wouldn't my 60 - 250 Pentax dslr lens work on a FF dslr? As a DA lens, it's nominally described as covering an APS-C size digital sensor, so may or may not work well on a FF sensor. (Perhaps a Pentax historian can help us out here: were any lenses designed with the abortive FF digital in mind?) The basic problem is the angle at which the light rays hit the edge of the frame. With film, it doesn't matter if the rays come in at an oblique angle. With digital, the individual pixels sit in a kind of well, and oblique rays may not illuminate the bottom of the well properly.

07-05-2012, 05:28 PM	#75
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,272	Pentax's original patent applications for the DA60-250 and DA300 state they are full frame lenses. Those posting here who have not read this thread, should.