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07-05-2012, 07:16 AM   #1
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Not trolling, but who buys Pentax FF if the lens selection is inadequate?

I am not trying to be a troll, I swear. I have a k5 and k20, with 21mm, 40mm, 70mm, 17-40, 16-45, 50-135, 50mm A, I guess that's it. Great stuff, although I feel the standard fast zoom is dodgy and too expensive. So to the point, people are excited (rabid) about the rumors of a Pentax full-frame. I guess I'm curious about it too, but I would view the lack of modern full-frame lenses as a massive weakness to the system, and i don't think I'd ever spend >$2000 for a full frame body without the availability of reasonable fast-ish modern (silent motor) wide lenses (24-28) ultra-wide zoom, fast-ish standard zoom, affordable fast portrait lens, fast-ish tele zoom, and a few others. Really none of these are available new, the used copies are old FA and silly expensive. I don't see any of these lenses on the future lens road-map. Who is going to buy a full-frame (rumored) Pentax except those who insist on shooting primes (31, 43, 71, 100 WR) or already own some older FA lenses and feel they're competitive with modern Nicanons? Nikon particularly has such massive availability of legacy lenses (relatively cheap due to easy availability) and the commitment to full-frame system build-out, and potentially a "cheap" full-frame body coming out this year, that I don't see why Pentax would enter that category. Again, not trying to be a troll AT ALL. I want to hear some opinions- the situation baffles me. Thanks for indulging me. -Adam

07-05-2012, 07:22 AM   #2
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I am planning to stick with APS-C for the longest time. If Conor Doherty and Benjamin Kanarek can stick with Pentax APS-C for their shots then there's absolutely no way in hell I could not do it too. As far as a FF comes, I had the exact same idea as you. There's no way in hell Pentax would in their right mind release a FF camera without a good set of zooms with silent focusing motor. So I think all this FF talk is just a waste of time. Not this year that it will be announced, but maybe a few or a couple years down the road, a FF Pentax will be more suitable. Bringing back the FA*'s will need to be re-ergonomically fabricated, metal frame, new and faster SDM, weather-sealing, etc.
07-05-2012, 07:26 AM   #3
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No, that's a good question. Personally, I don't care either way about FF & I don't get all the fuss. But, whatever.

Pentax would have to simultaneously release a whole new series of FF lenses to go with the camera, I would think. Older Pentax film lenses would work on a FF, too. They wouldn't have the latest bells & whistles, though. (Which I'm not concerned with either.)
07-05-2012, 07:28 AM   #4
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One of the main reasons people want full-frame is so they can use their existing compatible lenses. I have a couple of 28mm's, FA 35, FA 50, D FA 100 and A*300. All I would need for a complete kit would be a 24-70 (or 24-90) f2.8.

I don't think I'd be in for a full-frame any time soon, I'm more interested in the flagship APS-C that's supposed to be on the way.


Last edited by audiobomber; 07-05-2012 at 07:41 AM.
07-05-2012, 07:31 AM   #5
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I'm getting the K-30 this year - it's performance and price point is pretty convincing to me. I currently own the Sigma 50 F1.4 (which works on FF), Tamron 70-200 (which works on FF), and DA 35 F2.4 AL (which supposedly works on FF as well).

So in another year or so, I should be able to afford a FF and can use my existing lenses on it. The only thing more I would want is that mid-range fast silent zoom.
07-05-2012, 07:33 AM   #6
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I think Ricoh looks at it as part of a move to Compete more directly with Canon specifically since they are already arch rivals in other areas. Since the FF camera hasn't been announced I doubt they would tip their hand by road mapping the lenses. Roadmaps are open to ongoing revisions, and I imagine if they preview the FF at Photokina then they will update the roadmap at that time. I think there is already a pretty big market initially just selling to people who want to shoot their existing lenses or with the FA LTD trio, but definitely there will need to be 3 zooms and a few new primes roadmapped. the DA 60-250 is in fact patented as FF, so a 20/24-60 f4 would be a good companion piece initially and an inexpensive way to produce a kit lens Wide angles are the biggest weakness (heck the wide selection is weak on DA as well wheres the 24 that would give you the 35 FOV for instance.
A lot of the DA lenses in fact are capable of covering the FF Image circle (your 40 and 70 for instance)
Ultimately it's about planning for the future as FF will continue to drop in price and about having a broad enough selection to aggressively pursue market share growth. the big drop in share is partially due to lack of selection so it's been easy for the bigger guys to grab the entry and high level
07-05-2012, 07:34 AM   #7
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I would buy a full frame Pentax (likely two bodies), but mainly to use the lenses I already own on it. If Pentax came out with a new wide and telephoto zoom option for FF I would likely buy those too, especially as the wide angle zoom would be an upgrade over the DA*16-50 for a variety of reasons, and a FF telephoto zoom would slot perfectly into my current lens lineup.

However, if Pentax doesn't come out with FF that's fine, too. But if they don't, I would request that they replace the DA*16-50 and DA*50-135 with higher quality versions (faster, more reliable motors) and bring out a near pro capable (like a Canon 7D class) flagship model.

Either option would help me in my work. Maintaining the status quo won't move me to buy much more from them.
07-05-2012, 07:34 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
I'm getting the K-30 this year - it's performance and price point is pretty convincing to me. I currently own the Sigma 50 F1.4 (which works on FF), Tamron 70-200 (which works on FF), and DA 35 F2.4 AL (which supposedly works on FF as well).

So in another year or so, I should be able to afford a FF and can use my existing lenses on it. The only thing more I would want is that mid-range fast silent zoom.
Off-topic but couldn't resist, that Tamron 70-200 f/2.8 is a beast! I used to own one. Right now I am having a hard time deciding between that Tamy or the DA* 50-135 f/2.8.

07-05-2012, 07:36 AM   #9
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I don't care for MF myself, but I have to disagree with the OP: The lens lineup for FF K-mount is not inadequate at all. If you count all the FF K-mount lenses by -not only- Pentax, but also Tamron and Sigma, then you'll see the lineup is more then complete.
07-05-2012, 07:38 AM   #10
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besides, they need to make those ff lens SDM..I know many people think screw driver is fine..but at least pentax have to catch up with competitor..
07-05-2012, 07:38 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by weave2d2 Quote
I am not trying to be a troll, I swear. I have a k5 and k20, with 21mm, 40mm, 70mm, 17-40, 16-45, 50-135, 50mm A, I guess that's it. Great stuff, although I feel the standard fast zoom is dodgy and too expensive. So to the point, people are excited (rabid) about the rumors of a Pentax full-frame. I guess I'm curious about it too, but I would view the lack of modern full-frame lenses as a massive weakness to the system, and i don't think I'd ever spend >$2000 for a full frame body without the availability of reasonable fast-ish modern (silent motor) wide lenses (24-28) ultra-wide zoom, fast-ish standard zoom, affordable fast portrait lens, fast-ish tele zoom, and a few others. Really none of these are available new, the used copies are old FA and silly expensive. I don't see any of these lenses on the future lens road-map. Who is going to buy a full-frame (rumored) Pentax except those who insist on shooting primes (31, 43, 71, 100 WR) or already own some older FA lenses and feel they're competitive with modern Nicanons? Nikon particularly has such massive availability of legacy lenses (relatively cheap due to easy availability) and the commitment to full-frame system build-out, and potentially a "cheap" full-frame body coming out this year, that I don't see why Pentax would enter that category. Again, not trying to be a troll AT ALL. I want to hear some opinions- the situation baffles me. Thanks for indulging me. -Adam
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/183420-current...me-lenses.html

35+ full frame lenses are available right now, and the (approx) 12-24 and (approx) 24-75 could very well be FF lenses. Some others, like the 550, etc., are almost certain to be FF.

...and you said that Nikon has a massive availability of legacy lenses... I think Pentax might have even more.
07-05-2012, 07:39 AM   #12
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The FA limited by themselves actually covers pretty often used focal lengths, WA>normal>short tele so its a good start.
For cheaper options, there would be DA35, DA40XS, DA50, FA50, DA100WR
Then there are the DA*60-250, DA*200 and DA*300 on the tele end (some like them for portraits too)
The immediate missing FL coverage would be a UWA.
There are Sigma and Tamron options to wrap it all up for the time being as well.


The assumption that the legacy FF lenses are expensive is actually wrong.
A legendary lens like the FA*85/1.4 is as good if not better than the Canikon offerings at about $1000. The Canikons are more expensive than that.
Even the FA*80-200 is cheaper than the Canikon equivalent.
07-05-2012, 07:42 AM   #13
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People complain about the prices of the current line up. Sure I'd love to see Pentax bring back some of their FF winners, like the FA*250-600 to go with my DA* 60-250. But I couldn't afford to buy it , and I'm not strong enough to carry it for my style of photography.

Currently you have the FA's 31,43, 50, 77, 100 macro that's a lens line up that would be hard to beat on any existing system. The shortfall is in telephotos... but, there are some third party choices, like the Tamron and Sigma 70-200 2.8 zooms and the SIgma 300 2.8 and 500 4.5. I'm not seeing how outfitting a Pentax FF would be a problem. Given that you are going to spend a pile of money no matter which FF system you go for...
07-05-2012, 07:43 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by liukaitc Quote
besides, they need to make those ff lens SDM..I know many people think screw driver is fine..but at least pentax have to catch up with competitor..
While I like the quiet of SDM, there is nothing wrong with screw drive, it's a reliable proven tech. SDM for the higher end lenses ok, but the entry level can be screw drive (and in fact they will need entry FF lenses too not just the top level ones - entry will outsell the top models providing the cashflow for the production of others)
07-05-2012, 07:43 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by LeDave Quote
Off-topic but couldn't resist, that Tamron 70-200 f/2.8 is a beast! I used to own one. Right now I am having a hard time deciding between that Tamy or the DA* 50-135 f/2.8.
If I had a chance to revisit my decision, I think I actually would have gone with the DA*50-135 only because of the weathersealing. Besides the weathersealing, there is no reason I would choose the 50-135 over the 70-200.

QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
While I like the quiet of SDM, there is nothing wrong with screw drive, it's a reliable proven tech. SDM for the higher end lenses ok, but the entry level can be screw drive (and in fact they will need entry FF lenses too not just the top level ones - entry will outsell the top models providing the cashflow for the production of others)
I don't mind screw drive either, but it's nice to have a set of pro lenses that have quiet and fast AF. When adjusting for small focus changes, the screw drive is actually really silent. But when cycling through the range because of missed focus... in a nice dark quiet performance hall
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