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07-14-2012, 01:15 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by top-quark Quote
Reminded of a recent occurrence by this thread:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-film-slr-discussion/192079-theft-taking.html

There was some woman selling her late father's K-2 camera and assorted accessories. I clicked on the listing and saw in the item details "...blah blah blah and a 50mm F1.2 lens". I did a double take and mailed for confirmation as to whether it was 1.2 or 1:2 (that little bit of punctuation makes such a difference, does it not?). She confirmed that it was, indeed, a K1.2 and I was faced with a dilemma: take advantage of the fact that she didn't know what she had or do the right thing and tell her.

My conscience got the better of me and I told her that she should be selling the lens not the camera body. She relisted it and it ended up going for more than I was prepared to pay.
I think what you did was admirable indeed. In my case (Theft by Taking is my thread), the seller knew exactly what he had, since we discussed it back in January when he originally had the kit listed for $85. He bought the kit back in the early 90's from a coworker for a great price, and it had not been touched since the late 90's. All he wanted was to have it out of his closet, and go to a home where it would be used, which I was happy to supply!

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07-14-2012, 02:39 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Griz57 Quote
I think what you did was admirable indeed. In my case (Theft by Taking is my thread), the seller knew exactly what he had, since we discussed it back in January when he originally had the kit listed for $85. He bought the kit back in the early 90's from a coworker for a great price, and it had not been touched since the late 90's. All he wanted was to have it out of his closet, and go to a home where it would be used, which I was happy to supply!

Griz
Those are situations we all dream of, excellent equipment, amazing price, no guilt! We were talking about cameras....right?
07-14-2012, 02:41 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by everydaylife Quote
That was very kind of you. If I had been the seller I would have offered it to you at a discount but tnen agiain I am no saint I just sold a slightly fungus damaged lens to a dealer and got good condition money for it. Aren't I a bad boy. Still smiling.
On my list to avoid buying things from in the Marketplace here; check!
07-14-2012, 08:30 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Those are situations we all dream of, excellent equipment, amazing price, no guilt! We were talking about cameras....right?
Yep, you're right....would have offered him more if I could have, but being out of work since '06, it's only on deals like this that I can add to my kit. I received an email from him yesterday, saying that he has found the case and paperwork for the flash, and asked if I would like to have it. I think since he lives an hour and a half away, I'll just tell him to pitch the case, and I'll send him a SASE to send the paperwork to me....

Griz

07-14-2012, 08:31 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by builttospill Quote
On my list to avoid buying things from in the Marketplace here; check!
Double-check!
07-15-2012, 12:38 AM   #21
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From my capitalist and philosophical viewpoint I'd say your a fool, morally there would have been nothing wrong with buying it because:

A: There was no form of deception involved
B: You had no presence in the setting of the price or offer, you were simply offered something and you had to choice of accepting or not
C: The value of something is relative

To suggest that taking advantage of a good deal would mean that buying a house that being sold as a short sale is wrong to some extent, or going to yard sale and buying something worth far more than its true value.
07-15-2012, 01:28 AM   #22
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Fair points there. By the way, I never thought of myself as a "saint" that was just for a jokey title. I did feel a bit of a fool, though. Given the circumstances of the sale, I'm not sure that I could have enjoyed owning the lens if I'd got it really cheap. I'd do the same if I saw a similar deal in a charity shop.
07-15-2012, 02:08 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by top-quark Quote
Am I a saint or a fool?
Neither. Just an ordinary person trying to deal with the uncertainty and ambiguity of life.
Welcome to the human race.

07-15-2012, 04:41 AM - 3 Likes   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Whitewind Quote
From my capitalist and philosophical viewpoint I'd say your a fool, morally there would have been nothing wrong with buying it because:

A: There was no form of deception involved
B: You had no presence in the setting of the price or offer, you were simply offered something and you had to choice of accepting or not
C: The value of something is relative

To suggest that taking advantage of a good deal would mean that buying a house that being sold as a short sale is wrong to some extent, or going to yard sale and buying something worth far more than its true value.
Moral relativism at its finest. We each have choices to make in life. What we choose defines who we are.
07-16-2012, 01:17 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by top-quark Quote
Fair points there. By the way, I never thought of myself as a "saint" that was just for a jokey title. I did feel a bit of a fool, though. Given the circumstances of the sale, I'm not sure that I could have enjoyed owning the lens if I'd got it really cheap. I'd do the same if I saw a similar deal in a charity shop.

Charity shop scenario has more wiggle room, since money would mostly likely go to people who truly need it. Although my husband who is a IVY league lawyer who specializes in ethics/civil/disability rights (pretty much the only nice types around) always tries to get discounts at goodwill and has always been successful. My general approach to life is if both sides are happy then the deal is fine assuming no deception is involved.
07-16-2012, 04:48 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
an honest person, nothing more , nothing less. be satisfied with that
This ^

I would have done the same thing (and have several times; not just with camera gear), because to me, it comes down to the Golden Rule: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

If you were on the receiving end, would you want to be informed?

Ignorance is bliss - she could have been on top of the world having gotten an extra $20, thinking she ripped you off. But at the end of the day, that doesn't make it just.

What if she was selling her late father's trinkets because she got laid off and needed to pay the rent?

Like said above, in this day and age it is especially rare and "saintly"...so for that I commend you even more so. You can sleep at night knowing you chose the harder right over the easier wrong. Very, very few people can do the same...

-Heie
07-16-2012, 05:19 AM   #27
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You did the right thing, and probably some would call you a saint, I'd rather call you a Jedi, apparently the force is strong within you!
07-16-2012, 05:31 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Heie Quote
This ^

I would have done the same thing (and have several times; not just with camera gear), because to me, it comes down to the Golden Rule: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

I too follow the golden rule, I make sure both parties are happy and don't try to decisive people.

If you were on the receiving end, would you want to be informed?

I probably would be informed because I research anything I sell extensively, ignorance is a poor excuse for something that can be easy researched on the internet. If I were so uninformed enough to sell something cheaper then I should have well tough luck for me.

Ignorance is bliss - she could have been on top of the world having gotten an extra $20, thinking she ripped you off. But at the end of the day, that doesn't make it just.

HYPOTHESIS CONTRARY TO FACT: This fallacy consists of offering a poorly supported claim about what might have happened in the past or future if circumstances or conditions were other than they actually were or are. The fallacy also involves treating hypothetical situations as if they were fact.
example: If you had only tasted the stewed snails, I'm sure you would have liked them.
example: If Hitler had not invaded Russia and opened up two military fronts, the Nazis would surely have won the war.



What if she was selling her late father's trinkets because she got laid off and needed to pay the rent?

HYPOTHESIS CONTRARY TO FACT


Like said above, in this day and age it is especially rare and "saintly"...so for that I commend you even more so. You can sleep at night knowing you chose the harder right over the easier wrong. Very, very few people can do the same...

-Heie
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07-16-2012, 05:45 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
When I see something underpriced, I usually make an offer that's higher than the asked price, but still a good deal for me, while telling the seller that the item is worth more than the asking price. If they want to research and sell for more, too bad, if they accept, good for both of us! I figure if they get more than they expected, then to them it's a good deal, and I'm not stealing anything.
+1 the right approach I feel.
07-16-2012, 06:00 AM - 1 Like   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Whitewind Quote
I probably would be informed because I research anything I sell extensively, ignorance is a poor excuse for something that can be easy researched on the internet. If I were so uninformed enough to sell something cheaper then I should have well tough luck for me.
I am not going to spend the next 15 minutes disproving your attempts to disprove hypothetical situations (are you serious? really?) that neither of us can actually conclude are factual or not - that wasn't the purpose of me stating them. Rather, this is a terrible assumption to make: "If I am so informed, and I get cheated, it's my fault that I have no choice but to accept, and everyone else should share the same fate."

What if the first time she ever used a computer was to make an eBay account, and it took her 2 hours just to figure out how to upload one picture of her item? Most of us are gifted with a navigation of the internet so seamless and un-mentally taxing that it is very difficult to understand how anyone else "could be so uninformed when the entire world is at your fingertips thanks to 0.01 second searches on Google." I personally can attest that my grandmother is technologically-challenged, and despite showing her countless times, she still calls me on Skype while in Afghanistan on how to upload pictures to FaceBook. Not only would I never expect her to know what an alphabet-soup-named lens is and the distinction between 1:2 and 1:1.2, but I wouldn't expect her to research it prior to selling one either, because to her, it's old, unwanted, and inherited "junk," and $25 is better than throwing it away.

Ultimately I'm disturbed by your egocentric attribution of your own internet and computer prowess and unforgiving omniscience to someone whom you have never met as a justification for your own set of standards of morality and ethics.

Very Respectfully,
Heie
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