Wishful thinking: 24mm f2.0 Limited

calsan · 08-06-2012, 08:35 PM

For a long time, I was under the mistaken impression that a fast 'slightly wide normal' for APS would have to be quite a large and bulky lens.
Then I found this:

The Kiron 24mm f2.0 is only 55mm filter diameter and it's a 35mm lens and apparently quite a good performer.
So, I'm left hoping that one day we'll get a 24mm f2.0 limited from Pentax! After all, this lens proves that they could make it small, so it could be a DA Limited.

Hint, hint, Pentax / Ricoh.

lytrytyr · 08-06-2012, 08:52 PM

Given the 21/3.2 and 35/2.8 Limiteds,
a reworked AF version of the A 24/2.8 might be more likely as a DA Limited.

My own wishful thinking involves a DA* 24/2 like the Zeiss ZA 24/2 for Sony.

twitch · 08-06-2012, 08:58 PM

Seems a lot of people want a 24/f2 lens, certainly 24/2 is attractive specs, but it would be nice if it was also FF capable "just in case". Oh yeah, and have an aperture ring so we can use it on our old film cameras if we choose to.... hey wait a minute

calsan · 08-06-2012, 09:22 PM

Hi Twitch
Well the FA*24 is a strong contender for 'Lens that should have been re-released for digital'. However, it's kind of large by comparison with the limiteds, as your picture shows.
I just hope if they ever issue a 24/28mm lens, they don't do a plastic fantastic with no quick shift. I'm prepared to pay for a limited with these specifications.

calsan · 08-06-2012, 09:24 PM

Originally posted by lytrytyr

Given the 21/3.2 and 35/2.8 Limiteds,
a reworked AF version of the A 24/2.8 might be more likely as a DA Limited.

My own wishful thinking involves a DA* 24/2 like the Zeiss ZA 24/2 for Sony.

I see the A24 has a 52mm thread. So it's a small jump to make that a 49mm filter thread to match all the other DA limiteds. But it would need at least 7 blades, IMHO, not 5 like the A24.

Plausible.

vrrattko · 08-06-2012, 11:45 PM

Originally posted by calsan

I see the A24 has a 52mm thread. So it's a small jump to make that a 49mm filter thread to match all the other DA limiteds. But it would need at least 7 blades, IMHO, not 5 like the A24.

Plausible.

Well, I wouldn't mind 58mm thread like 31 Limited in return for faster than 2.8 max aperture. Hell, I wouldn't even mind something huge like Sigma 24/1.8, what matters to me is the performance really. What is the point in ultra compact pancake lenses? I mean they are brilliant designs, but i suspect they could be even better performers if the designers weren't constrained by the size limits. Personally I think a bit bigger lenses like fa31, k20/4 or k85 give me better hold and stability.
Anyway I would like to see 24mm f2 from Pentax, limited, star or plastic, but it must be optically good. Meanwhile I'm starting to think about that Sigma 24 or Zeiss 25...

chesebert · 08-07-2012, 01:09 AM

FA*24 + FA31 + FA77 is a power combo for crop sensor. I have been using my FA24 alot lately (part of it being that was the latest LBA damage) and I think (honeymoon stage) the 24mm FOV is more versatile than 31mm on crop sensor. I am sure to jump on a new DA* 24mm f2.0 if one is ever made available.

calsan · 08-07-2012, 01:14 AM

Making it slower than f2.0 would rather miss the point, but unfortunately I can see that happening.
However I think an f2.0 would literally fly off the shelves and would certainly become the 'go to' normal for Pentax. The speed would be part of it, but it's just a more useful focal length than the 40mm and 35mm prime kit lenses we keep getting.

snake · 08-07-2012, 03:46 AM

I would love for Pentax to do another 24 f2 again. That spec is also a bit popular again due to the X100 and makes a lot of sense. I was thinking about the Kiron lens, but read too much about the frequency of issues with them, so I ended up getting a Soligor 24 f2.5 (yes, 2.5, which little is known about). I kind of don't understand why we can't even get faster pancakes from Pentax in this wider range. From what I understand, the FA24 is large, in part, due to being IF. Correct me if I'm wrong. I really love how Canon went with that 22 f2 pancake for the new mirrorless cam. Hopefully they come up with something or thereabouts for the K01, since there's no mirror to screw things up. For me, I'm curious to see if the new EOS-M can compete with the X100 and I think most mirrorless manufacturers would be smart to make an interchange cam that can compete with it. Perhaps even adding an internal ND filter to it.

roentarre · 08-07-2012, 03:56 AM

FA* 24mm f2 is a lens I used to be a fan in using it wide open at f2 at night time. It has a surprising performance to pop photos at f2 at night, doing pretty well against tungsten lighting especially.

Other than that, it might be a newer digital sensor not that accomondating for this old lens optical performance. The images with aperture stopping down do not really stand out comparing to any other lens in the same league.

Yet, it is bulky and heavy. The paint loss is a bit of headache...

snake · 08-07-2012, 05:18 AM

So you think the FA24 isn't the best choice for a K5?

LennyBloke · 08-07-2012, 05:41 AM

I hope the FA*24 is the best choice for the K5 - I've got one on its way to me as we speak

The Kiron 24mm f2 was a very highly regarded lens back in the day when I was selling them (that ages me, doesn't it) - they were considered at least equal to most of the camera manufacturers versions at a fraction of the price. I'm pretty certain that there was also a PKA version.

SyncGuy · 08-07-2012, 06:15 AM

The way i see it, Pentax is more inclined to produce lenses to cater to the Japanese market; them and their uber retarded and stupid "kawaii"/cute mindset.
-"Oh... It's small! Kawaii~~"
-"Wow... Blue color!! So cute...."
-"Woah! So small and colorful! Soooo kawaiiii~~!!"

Get what i mean?

I honestly don't see them producing "professional" prime lenses, IMO.. The only way that i see them doing a workaround to that is to stall for time for another 10-20 years when it'll be considered a standard for APS-C sensors to be able to produce minimal noise at ISO 12000++..

I'm saying that too, because they too, refuse to develop a full frame sensor which i believe would perform slightly better in noise control over an APS-C sensor, ISO stop by stop..

I mean, take a look at all the newer generation primes and think about it.

**NaClH2O** · 08-07-2012, 06:36 AM

I own the Sigma 24 f/1.8 and it is a nice lens but it's a brick to carry around. I've owned 2 copies of the FA* 24mm but both were bad copies, with decentering issues and unuseable below f/3.5 (both had similar problems) I've been saying for the longest time that I want a DA* quality wide prime in either the 24mm or 28mm flavors. 8 or 9 rounded aperture blades, WR, and f/2.0 or faster. To be truthful I'd rather have that lens than a FF body (sacriledge!)

NaCl(I'd be all over that lens like a duck on a beetle)H2O

snake · 08-07-2012, 07:47 AM

Originally posted by LennyBloke

I hope the FA*24 is the best choice for the K5 - I've got one on its way to me as we speak

The Kiron 24mm f2 was a very highly regarded lens back in the day when I was selling them (that ages me, doesn't it) - they were considered at least equal to most of the camera manufacturers versions at a fraction of the price. I'm pretty certain that there was also a PKA version.

Quite interesting. If I see an example for cheap, maybe I'll pick one up. Thus far, the Soligor 24 2.5 I have is ok, but It's soft really in the lower aperture ranges, but SUDDENLY wakes up and becomes supersharp after f4.0. Not exactly what I hoped for because I want something that has good sharpness at wider apertures for low light, but really well usable especially af f5.6. Stunning detail, in fact. Got mine obviously new condition (doesn't look like it was even mounted) for 54 euros shipped. However, not having a 35mm equivalent in the Pentax line that is fast is a huge hole and probably something they might be losing sales over.

08-06-2012, 08:35 PM	#1
calsan Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Perth, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,548	Wishful thinking: 24mm f2.0 Limited For a long time, I was under the mistaken impression that a fast 'slightly wide normal' for APS would have to be quite a large and bulky lens. Then I found this: The Kiron 24mm f2.0 is only 55mm filter diameter and it's a 35mm lens and apparently quite a good performer. So, I'm left hoping that one day we'll get a 24mm f2.0 limited from Pentax! After all, this lens proves that they could make it small, so it could be a DA Limited. Hint, hint, Pentax / Ricoh.

08-06-2012, 08:58 PM	#3
twitch Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4,571	Seems a lot of people want a 24/f2 lens, certainly 24/2 is attractive specs, but it would be nice if it was also FF capable "just in case". Oh yeah, and have an aperture ring so we can use it on our old film cameras if we choose to.... hey wait a minute Last edited by twitch; 08-07-2012 at 01:22 AM.

08-07-2012, 06:15 AM	#13
SyncGuy Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 821	The way i see it, Pentax is more inclined to produce lenses to cater to the Japanese market; them and their uber retarded and stupid "kawaii"/cute mindset. -"Oh... It's small! Kawaii~~" -"Wow... Blue color!! So cute...." -"Woah! So small and colorful! Soooo kawaiiii~~!!" Get what i mean? I honestly don't see them producing "professional" prime lenses, IMO.. The only way that i see them doing a workaround to that is to stall for time for another 10-20 years when it'll be considered a standard for APS-C sensors to be able to produce minimal noise at ISO 12000++.. I'm saying that too, because they too, refuse to develop a full frame sensor which i believe would perform slightly better in noise control over an APS-C sensor, ISO stop by stop.. I mean, take a look at all the newer generation primes and think about it. Last edited by SyncGuy; 08-07-2012 at 06:24 AM.

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08-06-2012, 08:52 PM	#2
lytrytyr Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,310	Given the 21/3.2 and 35/2.8 Limiteds, a reworked AF version of the A 24/2.8 might be more likely as a DA Limited. My own wishful thinking involves a DA* 24/2 like the Zeiss ZA 24/2 for Sony.

08-06-2012, 09:22 PM	#4
calsan Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Perth, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,548 Original Poster	Hi Twitch Well the FA*24 is a strong contender for 'Lens that should have been re-released for digital'. However, it's kind of large by comparison with the limiteds, as your picture shows. I just hope if they ever issue a 24/28mm lens, they don't do a plastic fantastic with no quick shift. I'm prepared to pay for a limited with these specifications.

08-06-2012, 09:24 PM	#5
calsan Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Perth, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,548 Original Poster	Originally posted by lytrytyr Given the 21/3.2 and 35/2.8 Limiteds, a reworked AF version of the A 24/2.8 might be more likely as a DA Limited. My own wishful thinking involves a DA* 24/2 like the Zeiss ZA 24/2 for Sony. I see the A24 has a 52mm thread. So it's a small jump to make that a 49mm filter thread to match all the other DA limiteds. But it would need at least 7 blades, IMHO, not 5 like the A24. Plausible.

08-06-2012, 11:45 PM	#6
vrrattko Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Photos: Albums Posts: 753	Originally posted by calsan I see the A24 has a 52mm thread. So it's a small jump to make that a 49mm filter thread to match all the other DA limiteds. But it would need at least 7 blades, IMHO, not 5 like the A24. Plausible. Well, I wouldn't mind 58mm thread like 31 Limited in return for faster than 2.8 max aperture. Hell, I wouldn't even mind something huge like Sigma 24/1.8, what matters to me is the performance really. What is the point in ultra compact pancake lenses? I mean they are brilliant designs, but i suspect they could be even better performers if the designers weren't constrained by the size limits. Personally I think a bit bigger lenses like fa31, k20/4 or k85 give me better hold and stability. Anyway I would like to see 24mm f2 from Pentax, limited, star or plastic, but it must be optically good. Meanwhile I'm starting to think about that Sigma 24 or Zeiss 25...

08-07-2012, 01:09 AM	#7
chesebert Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Chicago Photos: Gallery Posts: 360	FA24 + FA31 + FA77 is a power combo for crop sensor. I have been using my FA24 alot lately (part of it being that was the latest LBA damage) and I think (honeymoon stage) the 24mm FOV is more versatile than 31mm on crop sensor. I am sure to jump on a new DA 24mm f2.0 if one is ever made available.

08-07-2012, 01:14 AM	#8
calsan Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Perth, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,548 Original Poster	Making it slower than f2.0 would rather miss the point, but unfortunately I can see that happening. However I think an f2.0 would literally fly off the shelves and would certainly become the 'go to' normal for Pentax. The speed would be part of it, but it's just a more useful focal length than the 40mm and 35mm prime kit lenses we keep getting.

08-07-2012, 03:46 AM	#9
snake Banned Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: NY/Germany Posts: 1,183	I would love for Pentax to do another 24 f2 again. That spec is also a bit popular again due to the X100 and makes a lot of sense. I was thinking about the Kiron lens, but read too much about the frequency of issues with them, so I ended up getting a Soligor 24 f2.5 (yes, 2.5, which little is known about). I kind of don't understand why we can't even get faster pancakes from Pentax in this wider range. From what I understand, the FA24 is large, in part, due to being IF. Correct me if I'm wrong. I really love how Canon went with that 22 f2 pancake for the new mirrorless cam. Hopefully they come up with something or thereabouts for the K01, since there's no mirror to screw things up. For me, I'm curious to see if the new EOS-M can compete with the X100 and I think most mirrorless manufacturers would be smart to make an interchange cam that can compete with it. Perhaps even adding an internal ND filter to it.

08-07-2012, 03:56 AM	#10
roentarre Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 11,783	FA* 24mm f2 is a lens I used to be a fan in using it wide open at f2 at night time. It has a surprising performance to pop photos at f2 at night, doing pretty well against tungsten lighting especially. Other than that, it might be a newer digital sensor not that accomondating for this old lens optical performance. The images with aperture stopping down do not really stand out comparing to any other lens in the same league. Yet, it is bulky and heavy. The paint loss is a bit of headache...

08-07-2012, 05:18 AM	#11
snake Banned Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: NY/Germany Posts: 1,183	So you think the FA24 isn't the best choice for a K5?

08-07-2012, 05:41 AM	#12
LennyBloke Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Worcestershire, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 677	I hope the FA*24 is the best choice for the K5 - I've got one on its way to me as we speak The Kiron 24mm f2 was a very highly regarded lens back in the day when I was selling them (that ages me, doesn't it) - they were considered at least equal to most of the camera manufacturers versions at a fraction of the price. I'm pretty certain that there was also a PKA version.

08-07-2012, 06:36 AM	#14
NaClH2O Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bronx NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,631	I own the Sigma 24 f/1.8 and it is a nice lens but it's a brick to carry around. I've owned 2 copies of the FA* 24mm but both were bad copies, with decentering issues and unuseable below f/3.5 (both had similar problems) I've been saying for the longest time that I want a DA* quality wide prime in either the 24mm or 28mm flavors. 8 or 9 rounded aperture blades, WR, and f/2.0 or faster. To be truthful I'd rather have that lens than a FF body (sacriledge!) NaCl(I'd be all over that lens like a duck on a beetle)H2O

08-07-2012, 07:47 AM	#15
snake Banned Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: NY/Germany Posts: 1,183	Originally posted by LennyBloke I hope the FA*24 is the best choice for the K5 - I've got one on its way to me as we speak The Kiron 24mm f2 was a very highly regarded lens back in the day when I was selling them (that ages me, doesn't it) - they were considered at least equal to most of the camera manufacturers versions at a fraction of the price. I'm pretty certain that there was also a PKA version. Quite interesting. If I see an example for cheap, maybe I'll pick one up. Thus far, the Soligor 24 2.5 I have is ok, but It's soft really in the lower aperture ranges, but SUDDENLY wakes up and becomes supersharp after f4.0. Not exactly what I hoped for because I want something that has good sharpness at wider apertures for low light, but really well usable especially af f5.6. Stunning detail, in fact. Got mine obviously new condition (doesn't look like it was even mounted) for 54 euros shipped. However, not having a 35mm equivalent in the Pentax line that is fast is a huge hole and probably something they might be losing sales over.