Kit lens for landscapes?

Clicker · 08-13-2012, 01:47 PM

Have you looked at Samyang's 14mm?

*edit* same price as Pentax's 14

JohnBee · 08-13-2012, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by stormtech

Joe - those images with the Sigma are fantastic - the last one especially pops! More LBA now with that lens especially since it is hard to find. And thanks so much for the generous offer to borrow the lens!

Not that I have anything against lenses(I'm a huge fan), though I would mention that there is nothing in the images quoted that would have anything to do with optical performance per say(aka lens performance). - Which ends- up being a bit of trap as people see wonderfully composed and processed images only to conclude that these are the result of such things as a lens or the camera etc. Whereas in truth, it would have little or nothing to do with it. Anyways, I'm not trying to play the devils advocate here because I absolutely love fine glass(guilty as charged), but its sometimes worth pointing out how misleading good images can be to that effect.

whitey · 08-13-2012, 03:53 PM

Hey Stan,

I shoot mostly landscapes, started out with 18-55mm alii but now use da15 and da21 amongst others. If you go here: Les statistiques exifs de vos photos sur flickr and input username 'james whitesmith' you can interrogate shots by focal length to see the different results (anything at 18mm is going to be kit lens).

All the shots are resized and PPd but hopefully you can get a feel for the IQ...personally now that I'm used to the rendering of the Ltds I'd struggle to go back to any zoom, never mind the kit lens.

stormtech · 08-13-2012, 04:15 PM

That is a neat site Whitey! Thanks for sharing this with me - was very easy to filter the different focal lengths.

All beautiful images, but need to ask if a lot of the 18mm images had some HDR work done? It's not that I didn't like them - actually very much the opposite. I just wanted to know to help judge the rendering of the different lenses.

And I hear what you are saying about kit/zooms compared to limited primes. Many times I have compromised with a lesser lens only to eventually buy what I actually wanted in the first place.

With that said, I think I should just stick with my original plan and save up for the 21 Ltd.

DreTAX · 08-13-2012, 04:30 PM

Stan i'd recommend having a look at the FAJ 18-35 over the standard kit lens. It's cheap, light, flare resistant, ff compatible and sharp.

**Pål Jensen** · 08-13-2012, 05:28 PM

There's a Limited zoom lens on the roadmap. I we're lucky it will be shown at Photokina next month. I plan to replace the DA* 16-50/2.8 with the 15 Limited plus that said Limited zoom....

whitey · 08-14-2012, 02:47 AM

Yup nearly all of the 18mm images are HDR - something I don't do much now as I use the Enfuse plugin in Lightroom most of the time instead. Come to think of it the Limited shots are all using a K-5 whereas Kit Lens shots are K20D...so maybe not the most helpful of comparisons actually but glad the link to the stat sorter was useful if nothing else!

northcoastgreg · 08-14-2012, 07:05 AM

Originally posted by stormtech

Many times I have compromised with a lesser lens only to eventually buy what I actually wanted in the first place.

That was precisely my experience with the DA 18-55 II. I expected it to be an upgrade over the DA 18-55 I, but it was no such thing. I really struggled to get anything even half-way decent out of that lens. Biggest photography gear mistake I've ever made. Should have gotten the DA 16-45 or the DA 21. So much easier to get great results out of mid-range and better glass. And so much more rewarding.

stormtech · 08-14-2012, 06:29 PM

Well......I really appreciate everyone's input with my dilemma. I am quite impressed with the shots and votes for the 18-55 WR lens. But....in the end, as I said a couple posts above, I really want the DA 21 - I know myself all too well and know I would end up with it anyway.

I have a little LBA fund, and was very close to having the funds for the 21. In this thread I was looking for an alternative mainly because I hate to dump my entire LBA fund - that is just when that deal of a lifetime comes along and you don't have the money to jump on it.

Then, today I got an estimate for a lens repair from Sigma. I have a Sigma 180 3.5 Macro which I just love. Bought it used a while back, but it started loosing communication with the camera when in the "A" setting. I was living with it for a while, but it is such a beautiful lens both in build quality and IQ, I decided last week to send it off for repair. The estimate came back today that the aperture ring needs replaced - $120 - ouch!

So, I guess my wide angle lens acquisition is on the back burner for now......unless........

GibbyTheMole · 08-14-2012, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by JohnBee

The 18-55 can be quite a surprising lens actually:

Yeah, it's pretty good, actually... I've taken some nice & sharp images with mine.

msatlas · 08-14-2012, 07:16 PM

I can vouch for the Tamron 17-50/2.8. I really like mine. You might have to dial in an AF adjustment though. Mine needed a -5. Can find good used copies for $350. For example... Pentax Digital 17-50 F2.8 TAMRON ASPHERICAL DI II SP INTERNAL FOCUS LD XR (A16) (67)(APS-C) WITH HO DIGITAL SLR ZOOM SUPER WIDE ANGLE LENS - KEH.com

You'll find that once you get to about 24mm or wider, there aren't many primes which will beat the better f/2.8 zooms like the DA 16-50, Tamron 17-50, Sigma 18-50 EX macro, etc.

stormtech · 08-14-2012, 10:41 PM

Originally posted by johnyates

Don't overlook the possibility of taking several shots and using stitching software to create a panorama. If you don't shoot wide angle landscapes often it might be the best way to go. The bonus is you get a higher resolution image once your stitching is complete.

While rereading over my thread absorbing all the information everyone has supplied, I seemed to have run right over your post jonyates. This might be a viable option for me now that I think about it. I've never done a pano before so it is kind of foreign to me, but I do understand the concept clearly.

I think I will try a software trial and use my DA 35 2.4 and give it a go.

Thanks.

123jippo · 08-15-2012, 05:50 AM

Originally posted by Clicker

Have you looked at Samyang's 14mm?
*edit* same price as Pentax's 14

If I remember correctly with Samyang's 14mm can not use filters and for landscape lens that is very bad...

eddie1960 · 08-15-2012, 06:05 AM

Originally posted by stormtech

Well......I really appreciate everyone's input with my dilemma. I am quite impressed with the shots and votes for the 18-55 WR lens. But....in the end, as I said a couple posts above, I really want the DA 21 - I know myself all too well and know I would end up with it anyway.

I have a little LBA fund, and was very close to having the funds for the 21. In this thread I was looking for an alternative mainly because I hate to dump my entire LBA fund - that is just when that deal of a lifetime comes along and you don't have the money to jump on it.

Then, today I got an estimate for a lens repair from Sigma. I have a Sigma 180 3.5 Macro which I just love. Bought it used a while back, but it started loosing communication with the camera when in the "A" setting. I was living with it for a while, but it is such a beautiful lens both in build quality and IQ, I decided last week to send it off for repair. The estimate came back today that the aperture ring needs replaced - $120 - ouch!

So, I guess my wide angle lens acquisition is on the back burner for now......unless........

My vote would have been for the 21 as well (in fact I'm likely picking up a 21 and 70 in the next month or so) I use my old lentar 21 for scapes and it is a great lens for when i need the wide angle for landscapes (IMO UWA like the 15 and the 14 are too wide. Love my 14 not for this though)
I just presented the WR kit because it is a hell of a low cost value. still a zoom though and a cheap one at that so there are compromises)
You might also consider the Sigma 24 1.8, stinkin big but seems very sharp and has tested well. I wish Pentax would get iot together and release a reworked FA24, it's just a really good FL on apsc, and borders UWA on Film/FF, a rare lens that the FL works well on both formats

stormtech · 08-15-2012, 07:08 AM

Thanks for that ediie - actually I did look at the Sigma 20, 24, & 28 1.8's last night as Sigma has them as reconditioned at a good price on their site. But after reading some reviews, all it did was add some more confusion for me. The physical size of the lens doesn't matter as I can't take hikes in the woods or walks in any cities - all my shooting is done here at home or within a 1/2 mile of my truck.

One of my hardest decisions in all this is choosing the proper focal length - did lots of research and kind of settled on the DA21 for the FL. I know I should just go for a good zoom, but I have migrated almost totally from zooms to primes over the past couple years. I feel I need a prime to help push my composition skills. But in this case with a WA or UWA, maybe a I should be looking at a zoom.

And with that said, I seem to come full circle with this in thinking of getting the 18-55WR more to test out different focal lengths before I spend ~$500 on a lens.

08-13-2012, 01:59 PM	#17
JohnBee Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Newrfoundland Photos: Albums Posts: 4,667	Originally posted by stormtech Joe - those images with the Sigma are fantastic - the last one especially pops! More LBA now with that lens especially since it is hard to find. And thanks so much for the generous offer to borrow the lens! Not that I have anything against lenses(I'm a huge fan), though I would mention that there is nothing in the images quoted that would have anything to do with optical performance per say(aka lens performance). - Which ends- up being a bit of trap as people see wonderfully composed and processed images only to conclude that these are the result of such things as a lens or the camera etc. Whereas in truth, it would have little or nothing to do with it. Anyways, I'm not trying to play the devils advocate here because I absolutely love fine glass(guilty as charged), but its sometimes worth pointing out how misleading good images can be to that effect. Last edited by JohnBee; 08-13-2012 at 02:19 PM.

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08-13-2012, 01:47 PM	#16
Clicker Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,241	Have you looked at Samyang's 14mm? edit same price as Pentax's 14

08-13-2012, 03:53 PM	#18
whitey New Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Leeds Posts: 17	Hey Stan, I shoot mostly landscapes, started out with 18-55mm alii but now use da15 and da21 amongst others. If you go here: Les statistiques exifs de vos photos sur flickr and input username 'james whitesmith' you can interrogate shots by focal length to see the different results (anything at 18mm is going to be kit lens). All the shots are resized and PPd but hopefully you can get a feel for the IQ...personally now that I'm used to the rendering of the Ltds I'd struggle to go back to any zoom, never mind the kit lens.

08-13-2012, 04:15 PM	#19
stormtech Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: In the boonies (NW Penna) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,744 Original Poster	That is a neat site Whitey! Thanks for sharing this with me - was very easy to filter the different focal lengths. All beautiful images, but need to ask if a lot of the 18mm images had some HDR work done? It's not that I didn't like them - actually very much the opposite. I just wanted to know to help judge the rendering of the different lenses. And I hear what you are saying about kit/zooms compared to limited primes. Many times I have compromised with a lesser lens only to eventually buy what I actually wanted in the first place. With that said, I think I should just stick with my original plan and save up for the 21 Ltd.

08-13-2012, 04:30 PM	#20
DreTAX Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria. Photos: Gallery Posts: 118	Stan i'd recommend having a look at the FAJ 18-35 over the standard kit lens. It's cheap, light, flare resistant, ff compatible and sharp.

08-13-2012, 05:28 PM	#21
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	There's a Limited zoom lens on the roadmap. I we're lucky it will be shown at Photokina next month. I plan to replace the DA* 16-50/2.8 with the 15 Limited plus that said Limited zoom....

08-14-2012, 02:47 AM	#22
whitey New Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Leeds Posts: 17	Yup nearly all of the 18mm images are HDR - something I don't do much now as I use the Enfuse plugin in Lightroom most of the time instead. Come to think of it the Limited shots are all using a K-5 whereas Kit Lens shots are K20D...so maybe not the most helpful of comparisons actually but glad the link to the stat sorter was useful if nothing else!

08-14-2012, 07:05 AM	#23
northcoastgreg Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Northern Michigan Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,175	Originally posted by stormtech Many times I have compromised with a lesser lens only to eventually buy what I actually wanted in the first place. That was precisely my experience with the DA 18-55 II. I expected it to be an upgrade over the DA 18-55 I, but it was no such thing. I really struggled to get anything even half-way decent out of that lens. Biggest photography gear mistake I've ever made. Should have gotten the DA 16-45 or the DA 21. So much easier to get great results out of mid-range and better glass. And so much more rewarding.

08-14-2012, 06:29 PM	#24
stormtech Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: In the boonies (NW Penna) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,744 Original Poster	Well......I really appreciate everyone's input with my dilemma. I am quite impressed with the shots and votes for the 18-55 WR lens. But....in the end, as I said a couple posts above, I really want the DA 21 - I know myself all too well and know I would end up with it anyway. I have a little LBA fund, and was very close to having the funds for the 21. In this thread I was looking for an alternative mainly because I hate to dump my entire LBA fund - that is just when that deal of a lifetime comes along and you don't have the money to jump on it. Then, today I got an estimate for a lens repair from Sigma. I have a Sigma 180 3.5 Macro which I just love. Bought it used a while back, but it started loosing communication with the camera when in the "A" setting. I was living with it for a while, but it is such a beautiful lens both in build quality and IQ, I decided last week to send it off for repair. The estimate came back today that the aperture ring needs replaced - $120 - ouch! So, I guess my wide angle lens acquisition is on the back burner for now......unless........

08-14-2012, 06:38 PM	#25
GibbyTheMole Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Iowa Photos: Albums Posts: 2,275	Originally posted by JohnBee The 18-55 can be quite a surprising lens actually: Yeah, it's pretty good, actually... I've taken some nice & sharp images with mine.

08-14-2012, 07:16 PM	#26
msatlas Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 309	I can vouch for the Tamron 17-50/2.8. I really like mine. You might have to dial in an AF adjustment though. Mine needed a -5. Can find good used copies for $350. For example... Pentax Digital 17-50 F2.8 TAMRON ASPHERICAL DI II SP INTERNAL FOCUS LD XR (A16) (67)(APS-C) WITH HO DIGITAL SLR ZOOM SUPER WIDE ANGLE LENS - KEH.com You'll find that once you get to about 24mm or wider, there aren't many primes which will beat the better f/2.8 zooms like the DA 16-50, Tamron 17-50, Sigma 18-50 EX macro, etc.

08-14-2012, 10:41 PM	#27
stormtech Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: In the boonies (NW Penna) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,744 Original Poster	Originally posted by johnyates Don't overlook the possibility of taking several shots and using stitching software to create a panorama. If you don't shoot wide angle landscapes often it might be the best way to go. The bonus is you get a higher resolution image once your stitching is complete. While rereading over my thread absorbing all the information everyone has supplied, I seemed to have run right over your post jonyates. This might be a viable option for me now that I think about it. I've never done a pano before so it is kind of foreign to me, but I do understand the concept clearly. I think I will try a software trial and use my DA 35 2.4 and give it a go. Thanks.

08-15-2012, 05:50 AM	#28
123jippo Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 165	Originally posted by Clicker Have you looked at Samyang's 14mm? edit same price as Pentax's 14 If I remember correctly with Samyang's 14mm can not use filters and for landscape lens that is very bad...

08-15-2012, 06:05 AM	#29
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,667	Originally posted by stormtech Well......I really appreciate everyone's input with my dilemma. I am quite impressed with the shots and votes for the 18-55 WR lens. But....in the end, as I said a couple posts above, I really want the DA 21 - I know myself all too well and know I would end up with it anyway. I have a little LBA fund, and was very close to having the funds for the 21. In this thread I was looking for an alternative mainly because I hate to dump my entire LBA fund - that is just when that deal of a lifetime comes along and you don't have the money to jump on it. Then, today I got an estimate for a lens repair from Sigma. I have a Sigma 180 3.5 Macro which I just love. Bought it used a while back, but it started loosing communication with the camera when in the "A" setting. I was living with it for a while, but it is such a beautiful lens both in build quality and IQ, I decided last week to send it off for repair. The estimate came back today that the aperture ring needs replaced - $120 - ouch! So, I guess my wide angle lens acquisition is on the back burner for now......unless........ My vote would have been for the 21 as well (in fact I'm likely picking up a 21 and 70 in the next month or so) I use my old lentar 21 for scapes and it is a great lens for when i need the wide angle for landscapes (IMO UWA like the 15 and the 14 are too wide. Love my 14 not for this though) I just presented the WR kit because it is a hell of a low cost value. still a zoom though and a cheap one at that so there are compromises) You might also consider the Sigma 24 1.8, stinkin big but seems very sharp and has tested well. I wish Pentax would get iot together and release a reworked FA24, it's just a really good FL on apsc, and borders UWA on Film/FF, a rare lens that the FL works well on both formats

08-15-2012, 07:08 AM	#30
stormtech Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: In the boonies (NW Penna) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,744 Original Poster	Thanks for that ediie - actually I did look at the Sigma 20, 24, & 28 1.8's last night as Sigma has them as reconditioned at a good price on their site. But after reading some reviews, all it did was add some more confusion for me. The physical size of the lens doesn't matter as I can't take hikes in the woods or walks in any cities - all my shooting is done here at home or within a 1/2 mile of my truck. One of my hardest decisions in all this is choosing the proper focal length - did lots of research and kind of settled on the DA21 for the FL. I know I should just go for a good zoom, but I have migrated almost totally from zooms to primes over the past couple years. I feel I need a prime to help push my composition skills. But in this case with a WA or UWA, maybe a I should be looking at a zoom. And with that said, I seem to come full circle with this in thinking of getting the 18-55WR more to test out different focal lengths before I spend ~$500 on a lens.