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08-20-2012, 10:21 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by DreTAX Quote
Nice shots Simbon4o. Going by your test shots i can see why you would favour the Samyang. However my experience with the M85/2 wide open would show a blue cast/fringe equal to f4.0 on your chart and decrease more using a deep hood & with a resulting greater sharpness. The sensor plays a large role with this colour cast, my K20 will always produce a strong magenta and blue cast whilst there will be almost none on the K-r sensor, all else being equal.
Тhat's interesting. I've tried to use hood but the fringing stays the same. It is not a big problem because only in specific situations it is visible. And shooting at 2.8 solves the problem in real life shots.
About the sensor - I've never tried it on different camera, only K200D.


QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
One thing no one has mentioned is that the rsamyang is internally focused. This means it changes (reduces) focal length slightly when you get really close. The M85 is a traditional focus whe the whole group moves in and out
If you mean that IF system can cause "breathing"(changing angle of view), I can tell you that both lenses stays almost the same angle of view trough all distances. Even the samyang is slightly better in this test as I can see in the viewfinder. About colors the M85 can't catch the colors samyang does and even with hood can't reach the contrast of the samyang. And M85 was having much more flare issues than the Korean lens which only colors the area near the light in very nice warm tones. I must upload soon some more head to head tests if I have some free time.
Sample

This is shot without hood with Samyang 85, the sun is in the corner and if it was FF camera it was going to be in the frame. I like those efects so I found that the hood is not needed for this lens.


Last edited by simbon4o; 08-20-2012 at 10:35 PM.
08-21-2012, 12:24 AM   #17
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Really nice shots here simbon4o.

The M85/2 does have minor PF but still in my favor as compact and light weight.
It is not a fast lens, and therefore not comparable in fast apertures.
A less good UV/protection filter also degrades the IQ. My normal use of M85/2 is with a depth hood and without filter.
The best f-stop is f5.6, the background still have some context, not blurred out.
F2 is good, not best, but still very good for portrait headshots. I would use with f2.8 for 1/2-portraits and f4 for 3/4 and 1/1.

A more fair comparison should be the Jupiter-9 85/2, Zeiss 85/2.8.

It has mentioned CA/PF. Here are some photos from last winter taken with M85/2:
#1


#2


#3


#4

Last edited by hoanpham; 08-21-2012 at 01:12 AM.
08-21-2012, 07:26 AM - 1 Like   #18
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Interesting discussion and comparison.

I keep thinking I'd like to get the Rokinon 85mm, because the price new for the features and IQ, it's almost too good to be true. But there are two things that always hold me back: the filter size; and the overall size.

The SMC-M 85mm just handles like a dream. I truly appreciate how it takes the same 49mm filters as most of my other M lenses. I shoot a good deal of film, where I use different colored filters for the effects they provide. So a nominally inexpensive lens starts becoming a big investment when I start pricing out good multi-coated polarizer, yellow, red filters (just for starters). This is less of an issue on Digital, true, but is a consideration for me.

And then there's the size itself. The M lens is so compact, it comes along with me pretty much no matter what I'm headed out to do. The minimal weight penalty to bringing it is outweighed by the utility of having it. I suspect the Samyang/Rokinon would stay home a bit more frequently, unless I was specifically looking to use it that day. And that'd be a bummer.

One of the reasons I like the Pentax system is for the full-featured equipment that isn't unnecessarily huge. (Canon 7D, I'm looking at you... why is that crop-sensor DSLR the same size as the full-frame 5D? Dumb.) If I start getting huge lenses, I may as well have stayed with the Canon digital gear I started out with, after all: the Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 is inexpensive, autofocuses, a strong performer and not much more expensive than the Samyang/Rokinon. (Again, this is my own peculiar constraint. Most folks don't seem to mind huge DSLR bodies and huge lenses, so I know I'm in the minority on that.)

I was lucky and found the 85mm's lens hood for cheap on KEH. The hood does help when shooting wide-open. I pixel-peeped it wide-open when I bought it, found it acceptable for my purposes, and haven't worried about it since then.

sinbon4o, I see why you love the Samyang lens. Gorgeous results and you're right, there are things that you can get with f/1.4 that you can't achieve with f/2. Still, I wonder if your SMC-M 85mm isn't quite right. I've never noticed that kind of softness and CA wide-open on mine. Sure, it loses contrast wide-open and isn't quite as sharp... but still quite usable, IMO.
08-21-2012, 08:13 AM   #19
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Well, I sold my FA 35/2 and that was enough to get me to pull the trigger on a purchase. In the end, I chose...the M 85/2. The auto-aperture of the Samyang would have been really nice, as would the f/1.4. But...if I'd gone with the Samyang, I just felt that I'd always be second-guessing myself and doubting my decision, and that I would always be looking on ebay for a good price on the M 85/2, i.e. "what I could've had." The physical size and filter size of the Samyang didn't help either. This was somewhat of a gut decision, as I seemed to get the feel that owners of the M 85/2 attributed it with some sort of intangible qualities that I might not necessarily get with the Samyang. I'm hoping to experience some of that same intangible pixie dust.

There's also the fact that the Samyangs seem to be quite plentiful, so if I'm not happy with the M 85/2, I can always sell it and go for the other.

It would've been nicer if there were any M 85/2's on sale from the US. Instead I had to buy off ebay, from Poland and who knows when the lens will actually get here. Last time I bought in non-US, it took several weeks for the item to arrive, and that was from Canada.

08-21-2012, 08:15 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChooseAName Quote
Well, I sold my FA 35/2 and that was enough to get me to pull the trigger on a purchase. In the end, I chose...the M 85/2. The auto-aperture of the Samyang would have been really nice, as would the f/1.4. But...if I'd gone with the Samyang, I just felt that I'd always be second-guessing myself and doubting my decision, and that I would always be looking on ebay for a good price on the M 85/2, i.e. "what I could've had." The physical size and filter size of the Samyang didn't help either. This was somewhat of a gut decision, as I seemed to get the feel that owners of the M 85/2 attributed it with some sort of intangible qualities that I might not necessarily get with the Samyang. I'm hoping to experience some of that same intangible pixie dust.

There's also the fact that the Samyangs seem to be quite plentiful, so if I'm not happy with the M 85/2, I can always sell it and go for the other.

It would've been nicer if there were any M 85/2's on sale from the US. Instead I had to buy off ebay, from Poland and who knows when the lens will actually get here. Last time I bought in non-US, it took several weeks for the item to arrive, and that was from Canada.
Next time you buy from Canada, ask the seller to ship it via Expedited Parcel instead of Ground Economy. It's about 3-4 dollars more expensive but gets to the US in about 4-6 days instead of couple weeks.
08-21-2012, 08:29 AM   #21
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Of course, even though the lens is bought, the discussion can still continue. Any recommendations for a good hood? I have a collapsible rubber hood but I want to get a rigid one that can both block light and provide some physical protection.

Something like this? I wouldn't think it's too long for 85 mm on APS-C, but I could be wrong:
Amazon.com: 49mm Tele Metal Lens Hood For Canon Nikon Sony Olympus: Camera & Photo
08-21-2012, 10:00 AM   #22
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A rubber hood will provide the best protection, in my opinion, but it should be quite a long one for 85mm.

The M 85mm has the ability to take very vivid, 3D-like photos, more so than any other lens I've used. That's not to say that the Samyang can't do the same. Give it a try and if it's not what you want you can sell it on without a loss and get a Samyang.
08-21-2012, 12:00 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by simbon4o Quote
If you mean that IF system can cause "breathing"(changing angle of view), I can tell you that both lenses stays almost the same angle of view trough all distances. Even the samyang is slightly better in this test as I can see in the viewfinder. About colors the M85 can't catch the colors samyang does and even with hood can't reach the contrast of the samyang. And M85 was having much more flare issues than the Korean lens which only colors the area near the light in very nice warm tones. I must upload soon some more head to head tests if I have some free time.
no, although IF lenses do not change outer dimensions while focusing hence there is no "breathing" what I mean is that you will find that as you focus in, an internal focus lens actually changes the focal length. i.e. it will appear shorter, where as an externally focused lens (one that moves the whole group, does not. You can calculate this by taking shots as you approach close focus, but it is not that bad until you move to the macro range which is beyond the close focus of these lenses.

As for the samyang et.al. lens, i prefer it to my supertak 85/1.9 in terms of sharpness and color, I have yet to put it up against my tamron 90/2.5 (52BB) to see how it does.

08-21-2012, 12:12 PM   #24
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About macro - the Samyang is better in terms of OOF areas because it render much more smoother and bokeh is more pleasing because of the 8 blade aperture. The sharpness closed down - M85 is the winner after 5.6, but I still like more the samyang.

QuoteOriginally posted by hoanpham Quote
Really nice shots here simbon4o.

The M85/2 does have minor PF but still in my favor as compact and light weight.
It is not a fast lens, and therefore not comparable in fast apertures.
A less good UV/protection filter also degrades the IQ. My normal use of M85/2 is with a depth hood and without filter.

A more fair comparison should be the Jupiter-9 85/2, Zeiss 85/2.8.
I was using it with Kenko Pro1 UV and when comparing with the Samyang both were without filters M85 with hood, samyang without.
Jupiter9 - this is the worst 85mm I can think of. Even great copies of it are not even half good as the M85. The only good thing in it is the aperture. Zeiss 85 2.8 - never tried one, I don't like slow lenses .
About PF - They are not problem at 2.8, but 2.0 - you must know when to use it or not because they are very strong and hard to clean being that blue, not purple or else.

Last edited by simbon4o; 08-21-2012 at 12:18 PM.
08-23-2012, 12:44 PM   #25
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You could've gotten an M 85/2 from a US seller...if you gave a big pile of cash to KEH.

Pentax Manual Focus 85 F2 SMC M (49) WITH CAPS 35MM SLR MANUAL FOCUS TELEPHOTO LENS - KEH.com
08-23-2012, 02:38 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by msatlas Quote
You could've gotten an M 85/2 from a US seller...if you gave a big pile of cash to KEH.

Pentax Manual Focus 85 F2 SMC M (49) WITH CAPS 35MM SLR MANUAL FOCUS TELEPHOTO LENS - KEH.com
Yeah, I noticed that yesterday. For the past couple of weekends I think they've been having 15% sales for film photography products (manual lenses included)...if my joker ebay seller doesn't hurry up, I might take KEH up, since I'm local to them. Of course, then lens on KEH popped up right after I'd already bought. And then another M 85/2 popped up on US ebay yesterday or the day before. Does this happen to everyone else too, after they buy a rare lens?

The Polish seller still hasn't shipped my lens yet :P It looks like a reputable seller with many positive ratings, so I don't think I'm getting scammed but it figures that the one time they're lazy about their shipping, it's for MY lens :P Am I being too impatient? I bought early Tuesday morning and in one of our ebay communications, the seller said they'd ship yesterday.

Last edited by ChooseAName; 08-23-2012 at 02:48 PM.
08-23-2012, 05:19 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChooseAName Quote
Of course, even though the lens is bought, the discussion can still continue. Any recommendations for a good hood? I have a collapsible rubber hood but I want to get a rigid one that can both block light and provide some physical protection.

Something like this? I wouldn't think it's too long for 85 mm on APS-C, but I could be wrong:
Amazon.com: 49mm Tele Metal Lens Hood For Canon Nikon Sony Olympus: Camera & Photo
I have a few of these and love them, especially the bayonet action. (Theres nothing like a bit of bayonet action)
MATIN Camera Lens Hood 49mm(Can be equipped backwards) | eBay
08-23-2012, 06:29 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChooseAName Quote
Something like this? I wouldn't think it's too long for 85 mm on APS-C, but I could be wrong:
Amazon.com: 49mm Tele Metal Lens Hood For Canon Nikon Sony Olympus: Camera & Photo
This looks like the one I started using with my Tak 135 on APS-C at first. I slowly worked my way down the focal lengths and ended up using it with my DA-L 35/2.4 without any signs of vignetting, so it is pretty unlikely to be too long for a 85.

In fact, I am looking for hoods that are as narrow, but deeper than 4cm. Anyone?

Last edited by Ikarus; 08-23-2012 at 06:58 PM.
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