70-200 vs. 50-135 ?

joe.penn · 09-03-2012, 10:04 AM

Originally posted by Isnwm

Have you ever shot any type of action stuff with your Pwntax 50-135 ? I'm curious to know how well it would perform @ a little league baseball/football game, or even a high school football game

Yes, I shot "some" sports with it - it does not fare well at all with sports using AF (SDM is quite slow with this lens), CIF in MF mode is really the only way to go when shooting sports with it. Now, the sports you have listed, this focal length is too short - you need the 70~200 for this and when shooting high school football a longer focal length should be used (300'ish); you could shoot the HS football with a 70~200 and crop but once you start cropping print-res, if you are not worried about printing as a medium then a 70~200 could do for the HS football.

Originally posted by Isnwm

That's my only concern. Length & focus speed.

The HS football action is fast, very very fast and 10x harder to shoot than the common kids soccer game you see pictures of scattered all over the forums here. Football (american football that is) gets really tricky to shoot and that is one of the reasons why you don't see a gazillion great pictures of football floating around the net, it's just freak'n hard to pop good clean shots. But as for your concerns quoted, one of your other concerns should be lens speed (max aperture), a 2.8 is really the must have for shooting football for two reason -> speed and subject isolation.

Originally posted by Isnwm

Say the teams were playing from the right hash mark (closest side of the field to me), if I held the camera up and had it pre focused or a great QB throw picture, or the RB running around the corner towards me... Is this expecting too much from the SDM focus ?

In short, YES, you are expecting way to much from SDM to capture this. With that being said, HSM "is without a doubt" faster than SDM, but you are also expecting to much from HSM also, In all honesty, you are expecting too much from nearly all AF systems in that situation -> this is where "CIF" rules and this is why the Tamron shouldn't even be on your list at this point. CIF Is Your Savior

Originally posted by Isnwm

I am constantly seeing online that the HSM sigma AF just blows the doors off the competition in AF speed. But at what cost ? How much of a dropoff on IQ is there ?

IQ is subjective as there is a ton of variables that affect it. Out of the box, Pentax lenses (stars and limited's) produce what most people think is some of the best rendering out of any lens manufacturer, and I agree - but again, there are many factors that affect IQ. As for drop off in IQ, there is none between the 70~200 FLD and the *50~135 - both lenses are top notch and produce extremely high resolution images.

Isnwm · 09-03-2012, 10:21 AM

Originally posted by joe.penn

Yes, I shot "some" sports with it - it does not fare well at all with sports using AF (SDM is quite slow with this lens), CIF in MF mode is really the only way to go when shooting sports with it. Now, the sports you have listed, this focal length is too short - you need the 70~200 for this and when shooting high school football a longer focal length should be used (300'ish); you could shoot the HS football with a 70~200 and crop but once you start cropping print-res, if you are not worried about printing as a medium then a 70~200 could do for the HS football.

The HS football action is fast, very very fast and 10x harder to shoot than the common kids soccer game you see pictures of scattered all over the forums here. Football (american football that is) gets really tricky to shoot and that is one of the reasons why you don't see a gazillion great pictures of football floating around the net, it's just freak'n hard to pop good clean shots. But as for your concerns quoted, one of your other concerns should be lens speed (max aperture), a 2.8 is really the must have for shooting football for two reason -> speed and subject isolation.

In short, YES, you are expecting way to much from SDM to capture this. With that being said, HSM "is without a doubt" faster than SDM, but you are also expecting to much from HSM also, In all honesty, you are expecting too much from nearly all AF systems in that situation -> this is where "CIF" rules and this is why the Tamron shouldn't even be on your list at this point. CIF Is Your Savior

IQ is subjective as there is a ton of variables that affect it. Out of the box, Pentax lenses (stars and limited's) produce what most people think is some of the best rendering out of any lens manufacturer, and I agree - but again, there are many factors that affect IQ. As for drop off in IQ, there is none between the 70~200 FLD and the *50~135 - both lenses are top notch and produce extremely high resolution images.

Im sorry, but what is CIF ? Im pretty new, only been shooting for a few months. and only been on this forum for a couple of them, so Im still learning the acronyms

Docrwm · 09-03-2012, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by Isnwm

Im sorry, but what is CIF ? Im pretty new, only been shooting for a few months. and only been on this forum for a couple of them, so Im still learning the acronyms

CIF = Catch In Focus

You have to enable it in the menus. It is a way to allow the camera to take the photo when something enters the focused DoF range on a MF or AF lens when the camera is set to manual focus.

Isnwm · 09-03-2012, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by Docrwm

CIF = Catch In Focus

You have to enable it in the menus. It is a way to allow the camera to take the photo when something enters the focused DoF range on a MF or AF lens when the camera is set to manual focus.

wow, i had no idea. I can see how this can be useful, but what happens if you catch something you werent trying to, and lose your shot ? for an oddball example... say I wanted to catch a shot of the QB drawing back, getting ready to hurl the ball down field, but the first thing that comes in focus, is the running back setting up a block on my side of the field ? I dont guess theres anyway around that ?

Docrwm · 09-03-2012, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by Isnwm

wow, i had no idea. I can see how this can be useful, but what happens if you catch something you werent trying to, and lose your shot ? for an oddball example... say I wanted to catch a shot of the QB drawing back, getting ready to hurl the ball down field, but the first thing that comes in focus, is the running back setting up a block on my side of the field ? I dont guess theres anyway around that ?

Yes that can happen. But for fiddling MF lenses it can be a real asset. It takes practice but some of the best photos I have seen here have been done with CIF. RioRico has a tutorial somewhere on here about using it as I recall.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-camera-articles/51036-how-use...tch-focus.html

cali92rs · 09-03-2012, 09:36 PM

I think it comes down to focal length...I personally used 50-70mm waaaaay more than 135-200mm so the Pentax was the obvious choice for me...but everyones shooting style is different, and if you value the longer end, go for the 70-200. But you also have to take into account SDM failures (a hotly debated topic) and WR and if you shoot in inclement conditions.

cali92rs · 09-04-2012, 09:11 AM

Originally posted by Ponosby Britt

Especially in inclement conditions when you end up with a half inch of snow on the lens hood after following events for a while.

LOL...yes, that certainly qualifies.
I've lived in LA and San Diego my whole life where it never snows and it only rains a few weeks the whole year.
But when I travel, I do like the extra peace of mind that comes with WR.

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09-03-2012, 10:04 AM	#31
joe.penn Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Maryland (Right Outside Washington DC) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,902	Originally posted by Isnwm Have you ever shot any type of action stuff with your Pwntax 50-135 ? I'm curious to know how well it would perform @ a little league baseball/football game, or even a high school football game Yes, I shot "some" sports with it - it does not fare well at all with sports using AF (SDM is quite slow with this lens), CIF in MF mode is really the only way to go when shooting sports with it. Now, the sports you have listed, this focal length is too short - you need the 70~200 for this and when shooting high school football a longer focal length should be used (300'ish); you could shoot the HS football with a 70~200 and crop but once you start cropping print-res, if you are not worried about printing as a medium then a 70~200 could do for the HS football. Originally posted by Isnwm That's my only concern. Length & focus speed. The HS football action is fast, very very fast and 10x harder to shoot than the common kids soccer game you see pictures of scattered all over the forums here. Football (american football that is) gets really tricky to shoot and that is one of the reasons why you don't see a gazillion great pictures of football floating around the net, it's just freak'n hard to pop good clean shots. But as for your concerns quoted, one of your other concerns should be lens speed (max aperture), a 2.8 is really the must have for shooting football for two reason -> speed and subject isolation. Originally posted by Isnwm Say the teams were playing from the right hash mark (closest side of the field to me), if I held the camera up and had it pre focused or a great QB throw picture, or the RB running around the corner towards me... Is this expecting too much from the SDM focus ? In short, YES, you are expecting way to much from SDM to capture this. With that being said, HSM "is without a doubt" faster than SDM, but you are also expecting to much from HSM also, In all honesty, you are expecting too much from nearly all AF systems in that situation -> this is where "CIF" rules and this is why the Tamron shouldn't even be on your list at this point. CIF Is Your Savior Originally posted by Isnwm I am constantly seeing online that the HSM sigma AF just blows the doors off the competition in AF speed. But at what cost ? How much of a dropoff on IQ is there ? IQ is subjective as there is a ton of variables that affect it. Out of the box, Pentax lenses (stars and limited's) produce what most people think is some of the best rendering out of any lens manufacturer, and I agree - but again, there are many factors that affect IQ. As for drop off in IQ, there is none between the 70~200 FLD and the *50~135 - both lenses are top notch and produce extremely high resolution images.

09-03-2012, 10:21 AM	#32
Isnwm Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 98 Original Poster	Originally posted by joe.penn Yes, I shot "some" sports with it - it does not fare well at all with sports using AF (SDM is quite slow with this lens), CIF in MF mode is really the only way to go when shooting sports with it. Now, the sports you have listed, this focal length is too short - you need the 70~200 for this and when shooting high school football a longer focal length should be used (300'ish); you could shoot the HS football with a 70~200 and crop but once you start cropping print-res, if you are not worried about printing as a medium then a 70~200 could do for the HS football. The HS football action is fast, very very fast and 10x harder to shoot than the common kids soccer game you see pictures of scattered all over the forums here. Football (american football that is) gets really tricky to shoot and that is one of the reasons why you don't see a gazillion great pictures of football floating around the net, it's just freak'n hard to pop good clean shots. But as for your concerns quoted, one of your other concerns should be lens speed (max aperture), a 2.8 is really the must have for shooting football for two reason -> speed and subject isolation. In short, YES, you are expecting way to much from SDM to capture this. With that being said, HSM "is without a doubt" faster than SDM, but you are also expecting to much from HSM also, In all honesty, you are expecting too much from nearly all AF systems in that situation -> this is where "CIF" rules and this is why the Tamron shouldn't even be on your list at this point. CIF Is Your Savior IQ is subjective as there is a ton of variables that affect it. Out of the box, Pentax lenses (stars and limited's) produce what most people think is some of the best rendering out of any lens manufacturer, and I agree - but again, there are many factors that affect IQ. As for drop off in IQ, there is none between the 70~200 FLD and the *50~135 - both lenses are top notch and produce extremely high resolution images. Im sorry, but what is CIF ? Im pretty new, only been shooting for a few months. and only been on this forum for a couple of them, so Im still learning the acronyms

09-03-2012, 10:34 AM	#33
Docrwm Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Somewhere in the Southern US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,285	Originally posted by Isnwm Im sorry, but what is CIF ? Im pretty new, only been shooting for a few months. and only been on this forum for a couple of them, so Im still learning the acronyms CIF = Catch In Focus You have to enable it in the menus. It is a way to allow the camera to take the photo when something enters the focused DoF range on a MF or AF lens when the camera is set to manual focus.

09-03-2012, 10:50 AM	#34
Isnwm Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 98 Original Poster	Originally posted by Docrwm CIF = Catch In Focus You have to enable it in the menus. It is a way to allow the camera to take the photo when something enters the focused DoF range on a MF or AF lens when the camera is set to manual focus. wow, i had no idea. I can see how this can be useful, but what happens if you catch something you werent trying to, and lose your shot ? for an oddball example... say I wanted to catch a shot of the QB drawing back, getting ready to hurl the ball down field, but the first thing that comes in focus, is the running back setting up a block on my side of the field ? I dont guess theres anyway around that ?

09-03-2012, 10:54 AM	#35
Docrwm Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Somewhere in the Southern US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,285	Originally posted by Isnwm wow, i had no idea. I can see how this can be useful, but what happens if you catch something you werent trying to, and lose your shot ? for an oddball example... say I wanted to catch a shot of the QB drawing back, getting ready to hurl the ball down field, but the first thing that comes in focus, is the running back setting up a block on my side of the field ? I dont guess theres anyway around that ? Yes that can happen. But for fiddling MF lenses it can be a real asset. It takes practice but some of the best photos I have seen here have been done with CIF. RioRico has a tutorial somewhere on here about using it as I recall. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-camera-articles/51036-how-use...tch-focus.html

09-03-2012, 09:36 PM	#36
cali92rs Veteran Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 3,354	I think it comes down to focal length...I personally used 50-70mm waaaaay more than 135-200mm so the Pentax was the obvious choice for me...but everyones shooting style is different, and if you value the longer end, go for the 70-200. But you also have to take into account SDM failures (a hotly debated topic) and WR and if you shoot in inclement conditions.

09-04-2012, 09:11 AM	#37
cali92rs Veteran Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 3,354	Originally posted by Ponosby Britt Especially in inclement conditions when you end up with a half inch of snow on the lens hood after following events for a while. LOL...yes, that certainly qualifies. I've lived in LA and San Diego my whole life where it never snows and it only rains a few weeks the whole year. But when I travel, I do like the extra peace of mind that comes with WR.