Market survey (Europe) DA* 200 & 300

lol101 · 02-09-2008, 02:26 AM - **1 Like**

Found this listed price on a reputable German online dealer:

DA* 200: 887 euros (instead of 1100 euros)
start

DA* 300: 998 euros (instead of 1300 euros)
start

Looks like the list price are going to get reasonable in 6-8 months...

RaduA · 02-09-2008, 08:55 AM

TeKaDe - Deutschlands und Österreichs Pentax Shop Nr. 1 - Pentax

DA* 200 - 949 Euros;
DA* 300 - 1079 Euros.

What is the VAT in Germany, 19%?

falconeye · 02-09-2008, 09:44 AM

Originally posted by RaduA

TeKaDe - Deutschlands und Österreichs Pentax Shop Nr. 1 - Pentax

DA* 200 - 949 Euros;
DA* 300 - 1079 Euros.

What is the VAT in Germany, 19%?

For Germans (and Romanians) it is 19%, for U.S. buyers it is zero. Welcome to the EU

Syb · 02-09-2008, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by RaduA

What is the VAT in Germany, 19%?

Is VAT the same as "Mehrwertsteuer"? I guess so, it is included in the price, right?

Syb

rvannatta · 02-09-2008, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

For Germans (and Romanians) it is 19%, for U.S. buyers it is zero. Welcome to the EU

Interestingly Bojidar Dimitrov's Pentax page now has the spec's on the 200 --- it appears
to to the idential lense ) optical to the FA 200 differing by the addition of SDM and manual focus override. Not a lot be big news here other than the fact that the FA200 hasn't been around for a while andis almost never seen on Ebay.

by contrast the DA*300 does appear to be of a new design, though one has to wonder why it took years to restart production of the FA200 and add an SDM motor to it.

RaduA · 02-09-2008, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

For Germans (and Romanians) it is 19%, for U.S. buyers it is zero. Welcome to the EU

Hey, don't forget the 1 to 1 parity in prices (USD vs. Euros). What was last time I check in the real world, 1,45 to 1

? Seeing a 1200 Euros lens here selling for 999 USD in the States just makes me feel so appreciated

! But cheer up, we could always look to UK prices

!

Radu

Richard Day · 02-09-2008, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by RaduA

Hey, don't forget the 1 to 1 parity in prices (USD vs. Euros). What was last time I check in the real world, 1,45 to 1

? Seeing a 1200 Euros lens here selling for 999 USD in the States just makes me feel so appreciated

! But cheer up, we could always look to UK prices

!

Radu

You cannot compare UK and European retail pricing with US retail pricing without tax adjustment. UK and Euro retail prices include the sales tax (VAT) and US prices don't, because every state has different tax levels.

UK projected retail prices v. US prices (both without taxes).

DA*200 £680 (approx $1320) v. $1100 - a $220 premium
DA*300 £765 (approx $1480) v. $1300 - a $180 premium
DA 55-300 £220 (approx $420) v. $400 - a $20 premium
DA 35 macro £254 (approx $490) v. $600 - Wow, a $110 reduction!

Current DA* lens on-line prices
DA*16-50 £400 (approx $775) v. $700 - a $75 premium
DA*50-135 £460 (approx $890) v. $750 - a $60 premium

There is a UK duty on lenses which will account for about a 7% increase, I don't know about US duty levels.

I suspect that the pricing will quickly come into line to be within +/-10% in most of the major markets.

RaduA · 02-09-2008, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by Richard Day

You cannot compare UK and European retail pricing with US retail pricing without tax adjustment. UK and Euro retail prices include the sales tax (VAT) and US prices don't, because every state has different tax levels.

UK projected retail prices v. US prices (both without taxes).

DA*200 £680 (approx $1320) v. $1100 - a $220 premium
DA*300 £765 (approx $1480) v. $1300 - a $180 premium
DA 55-300 £220 (approx $420) v. $400 - a $20 premium
DA 35 macro £254 (approx $490) v. $600 - Wow, a $110 reduction!

Current DA* lens on-line prices
DA*16-50 £400 (approx $775) v. $700 - a $75 premium
DA*50-135 £460 (approx $890) v. $750 - a $60 premium - more like 140 USD differential in fact - almost 19%

There is a UK duty on lenses which will account for about a 7% increase, I don't know about US duty levels.

I suspect that the pricing will quickly come into line to be within +/-10% in most of the major markets.

Well for the end user I guess it's more of the welfare state influence (EU) vs. the real free market economy (US of A). And of course the immense potential of the huge American market which droves down prices. Anyway 10-20% difference in prices before tax seems pretty much to me.

I saw something interesting - American dealers list May as delivery date for K20D. In most of the Europe the timeframe seems end of March - early April at the latest. Probably Japan will get it even earlier. What gives?

Tbear · 02-09-2008, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by Richard Day

You cannot compare UK and European retail pricing with US retail pricing without tax adjustment. UK and Euro retail prices include the sales tax (VAT) and US prices don't, because every state has different tax levels.

UK projected retail prices v. US prices (both without taxes).

DA*200 £680 (approx $1320) v. $1100 - a $220 premium
DA*300 £765 (approx $1480) v. $1300 - a $180 premium
DA 55-300 £220 (approx $420) v. $400 - a $20 premium
DA 35 macro £254 (approx $490) v. $600 - Wow, a $110 reduction!

Current DA* lens on-line prices
DA*16-50 £400 (approx $775) v. $700 - a $75 premium
DA*50-135 £460 (approx $890) v. $750 - a $60 premium

There is a UK duty on lenses which will account for about a 7% increase, I don't know about US duty levels.

I suspect that the pricing will quickly come into line to be within +/-10% in most of the major markets.

When I buy anything online from an out of state store (which is what I do most of the time), I pay zero tax, and frequently get free shipping. I do feel your pain across the pond.

Ted

rvannatta · 02-09-2008, 03:58 PM

Originally posted by RaduA

I saw something interesting - American dealers list May as delivery date for K20D. In most of the Europe the timeframe seems end of March - early April at the latest. Probably Japan will get it even earlier. What gives?

Don't know what the deal is but May 5 is the date that Amazon is using.---Amazon being one big mailorder house....

RaduA · 02-09-2008, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by rvannatta

Don't know what the deal is but May 5 is the date that Amazon is using.---Amazon being one big mailorder house....

I only see two possibilities:

1) the "American" launch date is real and Pentax just messes with us here in Europe with over optimistic timing;
2) Pentax focuses on the European market - and maybe extracts a price premium from us.

falconeye · 02-09-2008, 07:23 PM

Current European online prices without tax (VAT, Mehrwertsteuer) are:

smc DA 300mm 4.0 ED IF SDM (21760): 834,- Euro or 1210,- USD
smc DA 200mm 2.8 ED IF SDM (21700): 741,- Euro or 1075,- USD

those prices are 90 and 25 USD lower than the U.S. prices mentioned earlier.

I agree that normally goods in Europe are more expensive after currency conversion. But the difference is done by the vendors, thinking that the strong Euro did not yet make it into the conscienceness of the customers and also thinking that Europeans spent more money for quality. "Welfare economy" doesn't make vendor pricing...

For the release dates... Amazon in Europe quotes no date at all yet. Amazon may just be more cautious and also is not one of the "PENTAX PREMIUM DEALER" Premium Händler - Digitalkameras, Fotografie und Ferngläser - PENTAX Europe GmbH. At least one online vendor in Germany is.

Richard Day · 02-10-2008, 04:34 AM

Originally posted by Tbear

When I buy anything online from an out of state store (which is what I do most of the time), I pay zero tax, and frequently get free shipping. I do feel your pain across the pond.

Ted

Well, strangely I feel no pain, we just have different goals in life.

You may have a society based around low consumer costs, minimal or no tax and minimal or no welfare.

We, on the other hand, have a society with more of a social conscience and welfare system the envy of the world. I would rather pay reasonable taxes and live in the EU/UK than anywhere else in the world, where old age or good health isn't a lottery based upon whether you are rich or not.

Being of a certain age and with some challenging health issues, plus having a 92 year old mother who has the finest care available, I have a certain perspective on this!

I think things may change for the better over there in the future, but I suspect it will take some time before personal greed is outweighed by the social good.

I'm happy to pay a bit more for the benefits we have.

Each to their own!

flyer · 02-10-2008, 06:04 AM

Originally posted by Richard Day

Well, strangely I feel no pain, we just have different goals in life.

You may have a society based around low consumer costs, minimal or no tax and minimal or no welfare.

We, on the other hand, have a society with more of a social conscience and welfare system the envy of the world. I would rather pay reasonable taxes and live in the EU/UK than anywhere else in the world, where old age or good health isn't a lottery based upon whether you are rich or not.

Being of a certain age and with some challenging health issues, plus having a 92 year old mother who has the finest care available, I have a certain perspective on this!

I think things may change for the better over there in the future, but I suspect it will take some time before personal greed is outweighed by the social good.

I'm happy to pay a bit more for the benefits we have.

Each to their own!

Canadians have more or less the same benefits. I have a handicap person in the house and I really appreciate those benefits, even if I have to pay a "wee" bit more taxes.

RaduA · 02-10-2008, 07:12 AM

Of course we here (Romania) live in a "wonderful" third way with lots of taxes and almost zero benefits. Proximity to the Balkans, 45 years of communism and 20 years of wide spread corruption makes a very poisonous cocktail.

This is the real pain someone must feel for us not 50 Euros we pay more for a passion.

Radu

02-09-2008, 02:26 AM - 1 Like	#1
lol101 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Garennes sur Eure France Photos: Gallery Posts: 899	*Market survey (Europe) DA 200 & 300** Found this listed price on a reputable German online dealer: DA* 200: 887 euros (instead of 1100 euros) start DA* 300: 998 euros (instead of 1300 euros) start Looks like the list price are going to get reasonable in 6-8 months...

02-09-2008, 08:55 AM	#2
RaduA Guest	a little bit more here ... TeKaDe - Deutschlands und Österreichs Pentax Shop Nr. 1 - Pentax DA* 200 - 949 Euros; DA* 300 - 1079 Euros. What is the VAT in Germany, 19%?

02-09-2008, 10:33 AM	#5
rvannatta Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Apiary, Oregon Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,181	*DA 200 to be optically same as FA200** Originally posted by falconeye For Germans (and Romanians) it is 19%, for U.S. buyers it is zero. Welcome to the EU Interestingly Bojidar Dimitrov's Pentax page now has the spec's on the 200 --- it appears to to the idential lense ) optical to the FA 200 differing by the addition of SDM and manual focus override. Not a lot be big news here other than the fact that the FA200 hasn't been around for a while andis almost never seen on Ebay. by contrast the DA*300 does appear to be of a new design, though one has to wonder why it took years to restart production of the FA200 and add an SDM motor to it.

02-10-2008, 07:12 AM	#15
RaduA Guest	my first and last politically remark Of course we here (Romania) live in a "wonderful" third way with lots of taxes and almost zero benefits. Proximity to the Balkans, 45 years of communism and 20 years of wide spread corruption makes a very poisonous cocktail. This is the real pain someone must feel for us not 50 Euros we pay more for a passion. Radu

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02-09-2008, 09:44 AM	#3
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by RaduA TeKaDe - Deutschlands und Österreichs Pentax Shop Nr. 1 - Pentax DA* 200 - 949 Euros; DA* 300 - 1079 Euros. What is the VAT in Germany, 19%? For Germans (and Romanians) it is 19%, for U.S. buyers it is zero. Welcome to the EU

02-09-2008, 10:32 AM	#4
Syb Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Near Utrecht, Netherlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,221	Originally posted by RaduA What is the VAT in Germany, 19%? Is VAT the same as "Mehrwertsteuer"? I guess so, it is included in the price, right? Syb

02-09-2008, 10:46 AM	#6
RaduA Guest	Originally posted by falconeye For Germans (and Romanians) it is 19%, for U.S. buyers it is zero. Welcome to the EU Hey, don't forget the 1 to 1 parity in prices (USD vs. Euros). What was last time I check in the real world, 1,45 to 1 ? Seeing a 1200 Euros lens here selling for 999 USD in the States just makes me feel so appreciated ! But cheer up, we could always look to UK prices ! Radu

02-09-2008, 11:44 AM	#7
Richard Day Inactive Account Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Gloucester UK Posts: 441	Originally posted by RaduA Hey, don't forget the 1 to 1 parity in prices (USD vs. Euros). What was last time I check in the real world, 1,45 to 1 ? Seeing a 1200 Euros lens here selling for 999 USD in the States just makes me feel so appreciated ! But cheer up, we could always look to UK prices ! Radu You cannot compare UK and European retail pricing with US retail pricing without tax adjustment. UK and Euro retail prices include the sales tax (VAT) and US prices don't, because every state has different tax levels. UK projected retail prices v. US prices (both without taxes). DA200 £680 (approx $1320) v. $1100 - a $220 premium DA300 £765 (approx $1480) v. $1300 - a $180 premium DA 55-300 £220 (approx $420) v. $400 - a $20 premium DA 35 macro £254 (approx $490) v. $600 - Wow, a $110 reduction! Current DA* lens on-line prices DA16-50 £400 (approx $775) v. $700 - a $75 premium DA50-135 £460 (approx $890) v. $750 - a $60 premium There is a UK duty on lenses which will account for about a 7% increase, I don't know about US duty levels. I suspect that the pricing will quickly come into line to be within +/-10% in most of the major markets.

02-09-2008, 12:41 PM	#8
RaduA Guest	Originally posted by Richard Day You cannot compare UK and European retail pricing with US retail pricing without tax adjustment. UK and Euro retail prices include the sales tax (VAT) and US prices don't, because every state has different tax levels. UK projected retail prices v. US prices (both without taxes). DA200 £680 (approx $1320) v. $1100 - a $220 premium DA300 £765 (approx $1480) v. $1300 - a $180 premium DA 55-300 £220 (approx $420) v. $400 - a $20 premium DA 35 macro £254 (approx $490) v. $600 - Wow, a $110 reduction! Current DA* lens on-line prices DA16-50 £400 (approx $775) v. $700 - a $75 premium DA50-135 £460 (approx $890) v. $750 - a $60 premium - more like 140 USD differential in fact - almost 19% There is a UK duty on lenses which will account for about a 7% increase, I don't know about US duty levels. I suspect that the pricing will quickly come into line to be within +/-10% in most of the major markets. Well for the end user I guess it's more of the welfare state influence (EU) vs. the real free market economy (US of A). And of course the immense potential of the huge American market which droves down prices. Anyway 10-20% difference in prices before tax seems pretty much to me. I saw something interesting - American dealers list May as delivery date for K20D. In most of the Europe the timeframe seems end of March - early April at the latest. Probably Japan will get it even earlier. What gives?

02-09-2008, 02:36 PM	#9
Tbear Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 269	Originally posted by Richard Day You cannot compare UK and European retail pricing with US retail pricing without tax adjustment. UK and Euro retail prices include the sales tax (VAT) and US prices don't, because every state has different tax levels. UK projected retail prices v. US prices (both without taxes). DA200 £680 (approx $1320) v. $1100 - a $220 premium DA300 £765 (approx $1480) v. $1300 - a $180 premium DA 55-300 £220 (approx $420) v. $400 - a $20 premium DA 35 macro £254 (approx $490) v. $600 - Wow, a $110 reduction! Current DA* lens on-line prices DA16-50 £400 (approx $775) v. $700 - a $75 premium DA50-135 £460 (approx $890) v. $750 - a $60 premium There is a UK duty on lenses which will account for about a 7% increase, I don't know about US duty levels. I suspect that the pricing will quickly come into line to be within +/-10% in most of the major markets. When I buy anything online from an out of state store (which is what I do most of the time), I pay zero tax, and frequently get free shipping. I do feel your pain across the pond. Ted

02-09-2008, 03:58 PM	#10
rvannatta Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Apiary, Oregon Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,181	Originally posted by RaduA I saw something interesting - American dealers list May as delivery date for K20D. In most of the Europe the timeframe seems end of March - early April at the latest. Probably Japan will get it even earlier. What gives? Don't know what the deal is but May 5 is the date that Amazon is using.---Amazon being one big mailorder house....

02-09-2008, 05:09 PM	#11
RaduA Guest	Originally posted by rvannatta Don't know what the deal is but May 5 is the date that Amazon is using.---Amazon being one big mailorder house.... I only see two possibilities: 1) the "American" launch date is real and Pentax just messes with us here in Europe with over optimistic timing; 2) Pentax focuses on the European market - and maybe extracts a price premium from us.

02-09-2008, 07:23 PM	#12
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Current European online prices without tax (VAT, Mehrwertsteuer) are: smc DA 300mm 4.0 ED IF SDM (21760): 834,- Euro or 1210,- USD smc DA 200mm 2.8 ED IF SDM (21700): 741,- Euro or 1075,- USD those prices are 90 and 25 USD lower than the U.S. prices mentioned earlier. I agree that normally goods in Europe are more expensive after currency conversion. But the difference is done by the vendors, thinking that the strong Euro did not yet make it into the conscienceness of the customers and also thinking that Europeans spent more money for quality. "Welfare economy" doesn't make vendor pricing... For the release dates... Amazon in Europe quotes no date at all yet. Amazon may just be more cautious and also is not one of the "PENTAX PREMIUM DEALER" Premium Händler - Digitalkameras, Fotografie und Ferngläser - PENTAX Europe GmbH. At least one online vendor in Germany is.

02-10-2008, 04:34 AM	#13
Richard Day Inactive Account Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Gloucester UK Posts: 441	Originally posted by Tbear When I buy anything online from an out of state store (which is what I do most of the time), I pay zero tax, and frequently get free shipping. I do feel your pain across the pond. Ted Well, strangely I feel no pain, we just have different goals in life. You may have a society based around low consumer costs, minimal or no tax and minimal or no welfare. We, on the other hand, have a society with more of a social conscience and welfare system the envy of the world. I would rather pay reasonable taxes and live in the EU/UK than anywhere else in the world, where old age or good health isn't a lottery based upon whether you are rich or not. Being of a certain age and with some challenging health issues, plus having a 92 year old mother who has the finest care available, I have a certain perspective on this! I think things may change for the better over there in the future, but I suspect it will take some time before personal greed is outweighed by the social good. I'm happy to pay a bit more for the benefits we have. Each to their own!

02-10-2008, 06:04 AM	#14
flyer Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Ste-Anne des Plaines, Qc., Canada Posts: 2,013	Originally posted by Richard Day Well, strangely I feel no pain, we just have different goals in life. You may have a society based around low consumer costs, minimal or no tax and minimal or no welfare. We, on the other hand, have a society with more of a social conscience and welfare system the envy of the world. I would rather pay reasonable taxes and live in the EU/UK than anywhere else in the world, where old age or good health isn't a lottery based upon whether you are rich or not. Being of a certain age and with some challenging health issues, plus having a 92 year old mother who has the finest care available, I have a certain perspective on this! I think things may change for the better over there in the future, but I suspect it will take some time before personal greed is outweighed by the social good. I'm happy to pay a bit more for the benefits we have. Each to their own! Canadians have more or less the same benefits. I have a handicap person in the house and I really appreciate those benefits, even if I have to pay a "wee" bit more taxes.