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02-09-2008, 08:20 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ivan Glisin Quote
I would be happy with what I call "triple seven" combination, regular DA primes (non-limiteds, non-pancakes but still light and compact enough), sharp and well corrected, and each under $500. Here is what I mean (+/-1/2 f-stops):

DA 17/2.8
DA 27/1.7
DA 73/2.0 MACRO

That trio would be all I would ever need.

After a bit of thinking, I don't see myself buying DA 15 (too wide) or any of the current DA Ltds: DA 21 is just a bit wider that I'd like and too slow to serve as a general purpose normal-wide; DA 35 MACRO is sort of weird focal length for a macro and too slow for a 24x7 normal; DA 40... um... I do not understand the idea behind it; DA 70 is just about right, but why it's not a MACRO?
By the way, what lenses are you talking about? Are these even available?

I think the DA Limiteds are perfect. It's all I'll need, definitely not all I want. In that series, you have your wide angle, your normal, and your short telephoto. That's good enough for a base setup. Then, you can add in a couple of other lenses and such.

02-10-2008, 12:14 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ivan Glisin Quote
Agreed! We all expected DA 35 to be FA 35/2 in DA packaging but no, it turned out to be DA 35/2.8 MACRO!!! Surprise!!!

Now we may expect DA 15mm to be rectilinear but we should not forget it's Pentax and another surprise in the form of DA 15/3.5 FISH-EYE is indeed a very real possibility.

The only alternative option that will not be a direct competitor to DA 14 would be DA 15/4.5 Limited pancake: 1.5 stops slower than DA 14/2.8 should be enough to put DA 15/4.5 Ltd. in a completely different category.

So my bet is on a DA 15/3.5 Fish-Eye or a DA 15/4.5 rectilinear (+/- 1/3 stop).
The problem with this guess is that the image from Da 15/3.5 fish eye lens would not be of a fish eye perspective, almost rectilinear lens on an APC sensor. In addition to that, FE 10-17mm already covers the range and is already small enough. I doubt 15mm fish eye is what pentax is really keen to bring it out.

Sigma is introducing 8mm Fish Eye for APC sensor. So I guess it would be more of a traditional equivalent view of 15mm fish eye on FF
02-10-2008, 10:34 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by roentarre Quote
In addition to that, FE 10-17mm already covers the range and is already small enough.
Good point. (Small size of DA 10-17).
02-11-2008, 06:31 PM   #19
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I agree with the sentiment that 15mm, on an APS-C sensor, isn't fisheye.

The lens is a DA limited lens, which means that it'll be really small and sharp, without too much regard for speed. The idea of a "smaller, faster" DA14mm isn't just wrong for this lens, it flies in the face of the laws of physics.

The 3.5 maximum aperture is a good guesstimate, taking into account the smaller apertures with shorter focal lengths as observed in the other limiteds (2.4 for the 70mm, down to 3.2 for the 21mm). As for the size of it, I'd expect it to be roughly the same size as the new 35 macro, maybe a bit smaller. Lenses that wide can't be too small. I'd also expect it to keep the same size filter thread as all of the other limiteds.

Such a lens has a real place in the pentax lineup, despite the presence of the 14mm 2.8. That lens is really very big, and Pentax has gained quite a following with users (like me) that love the small primes in the DA Limited lineup, lenses that can be carried in vest pockets and the like. Most of these people are street photographers that Pentax is stealing not from Nikon or Canon, but from Leica and other rangefinders. As such, these users tend to like lenses that are small and also that are wide. This lens will fill the DA limited lineup with four lenses that very nearly match the classic 24/35/50/90 lineup that so many Leica users travel with. It is a strategic move that will probably win them new customers and further differentiate their offerings from the big two. I can't wait to see more on this lens, and I think Pentax would do well to "leak" a little more information to the right circles. A k20d with 15/21/40/70 could be pretty inexpensive, yet offer much more than three times as much money could buy in any current digital rangefinder system, while still being small and inconspicuous.

That's my read on it, anyway.

Will

06-29-2008, 03:58 PM   #20
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I always enjoy resurecting an old thread.

Anyways, When do you guys think that this 15mm limited is going to be out? Should we expect it for photokina?

I need to add something wide to my current lineup and I feel like a limited would be quite nice. I think that the 21mm would probably be wide enough, but if the 15 mm is going to be around the same price, it might be interesting to wait a bit.
But I can't wait too long! I live in Montreal right now but I will go back to my home country by December. I am from France, and it would be stupid to by a lens there! (The difference in price is INSANE)
06-29-2008, 04:28 PM   #21
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Since we still have no idea of when the DA15 is going to be coming out, nor have details about the specs, I would say go ahead and get the DA21. Since we don't have any more info than we do, I would suspect that the earliest that the 15 would come out would be sometime next year. With the current (3/18/08) lens roadmap in mind, I figure that the lenses yet to be released will come out in this order:

DA17-70/4 (we've already seen pics from Ned's test copy of this lens NED BUNNELL: DA 17-70 Sample Photos)
DA*60-250/4 (on the roadmap, it has a targeted availablilty date of summer 2008)
DA*55/1.4 (on the roadmap, with an aperture speed, but marketing date to be announced later)

The following lenses are on the roadmap, but with not much in the way of details and no tenative release dates, so there's no telling what order they'll be released in:
DA15 Ltd.
DA*30 SDM
Rear converter for SDM

The *55/1.4 piques my interest, but that's not going to stop me from buying a 50 in the meantime. I figure that once the 55 comes out and I decide that I do want it, I can always sell the 50.

Heather
06-30-2008, 02:47 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by tux08902 Quote
DA* zooms are quality lenses, but primes still are sharper based on the photos that I'vec ompared.
I believe that it is technically impossible to build a zoom that's sharper than any equivalent prime across it's FL range. More so for the very wide end and DA 15 LTD if rectiliniar IMO will be much better optimised than DA* @ 16mm. All in all a modern prime (ltd or * even better) could be expected to perform better than a zoom @ that particular point.

I am also interested if someone could make a test between a DA* and the ltds @ 21, 35, 40 and 43 mm.

Radu
06-30-2008, 09:55 AM   #23
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For the DA15, which I'm eagerly waiting for, this is what I'm hoping for:
1. Excellent rectillinear correction - minimal barrel distortion please!
2. Sharp out to the extreme edges (unlike the DA14)
3. Excellent flare resistance (like the DA21)

I expect Limited build quailty, and it can be slow and/or somewhat large as long as it meets the above requirements.

06-30-2008, 11:06 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by GaryM Quote
For the DA15, which I'm eagerly waiting for, this is what I'm hoping for:
1. Excellent rectillinear correction - minimal barrel distortion please!
2. Sharp out to the extreme edges (unlike the DA14)
3. Excellent flare resistance (like the DA21)

I expect Limited build quailty, and it can be slow and/or somewhat large as long as it meets the above requirements.
If I may add:

4. Less CA than DA 14
5. Much less vignetting from the full aperture up
6. Smaller size filter (67mm?)
7. Of course size and weight significantly less than DA 14

Radu
06-30-2008, 04:26 PM   #25
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DA15 has to have F4 or 4,5 to be compakt and not so expensive. A built-in Pol-filter is nice at a wide angel... And of course sharper than DA14 and DA21 at full opening.
07-01-2008, 02:37 AM   #26
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I wonder if it is going to be like the case of DA35 macro. It took them over a year to release that lens. I guess its better late than never or worst a bad performing lens. Come to think of it the 60-250 was also announced at the same time as the DA35, DA200, and DA300 and it is still not out.

I think they will eventually release a fisheye DA Limited style I just dont know if this is the one. And if they do the DA Limited will be an awesome lineup; a fisheye, a macro and several pancake primes.
07-01-2008, 04:24 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by lastdodobird Quote
oh god no, please not a fisheye.
nothing against fisheyes, but I was hoping for a fast ultra-wide angle rectilinear prime.
Both FE and rectilinear have optical distortion-simple physics. Rectilinear WA has the disfigurement the same at the corner.






QuoteOriginally posted by lastdodobird Quote
if i end up having too many issues on the uwa primes, i might end up settling for the 12-24...
Zooms are optical compromise. And bigger the FL range and you get bigger issue.



Daniel
07-01-2008, 01:17 PM   #28
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I hear everyone asking for smaller, cheaper, better built, and better performing than the DA14 (which I have and have used a lot). How on earth does this make sense, even at 2/3 of a stop slower? I would guess unless Pentax has somehow defied physics, that it would need to be F/4 or F/4.5, and certainly not be much cheaper if at all.

The FA20 vs DA21 is different since coverage is for APS-C, while the DA14 is already APS-C.

The DA14's CA is lowest in its class already and I don't see a lot of it. Sharpness is good (at infinity), especially stopped down to F/4-5.6. It's well-corrected for distortion. It's built with a lot of metal and a non-turning focus ring. It's not even that big. But I think people want to have their cake and eat it too in this ultra-wide area.
07-01-2008, 02:27 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by jslifoaw Quote
I hear everyone asking for smaller, cheaper, better built, and better performing than the DA14 (which I have and have used a lot). How on earth does this make sense, even at 2/3 of a stop slower? I would guess unless Pentax has somehow defied physics, that it would need to be F/4 or F/4.5, and certainly not be much cheaper if at all.

The FA20 vs DA21 is different since coverage is for APS-C, while the DA14 is already APS-C.

The DA14's CA is lowest in its class already and I don't see a lot of it. Sharpness is good (at infinity), especially stopped down to F/4-5.6. It's well-corrected for distortion. It's built with a lot of metal and a non-turning focus ring. It's not even that big. But I think people want to have their cake and eat it too in this ultra-wide area.
Even if DA 14 is more than a decent lens IMO it is very far from perfection. Take a look at Nikon 14-24: Nikkor AF-S 14-24mm f/2.8 G ED N - Test Report / Review
Yes I know it is FF, very heavy, with no front filter and costs an arm and a leg but it also shows what the highest quality in wide angle really is today (and it's a zoom too obviously). So it should be very possible for Pentax to improve with its primes.
I think that DA 15 Ltd will only be the first step afterwards maybe a DA* wider, faster, with SDM, weather seals and many optical correction compared to DA 14 will follow and the DA 14 will be withdrawn in some time. Or a potential DA* 11-16derived from Tokina variant.

Radu
07-01-2008, 02:44 PM   #30
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I agree the DA14 is far from perfect. The Nikon 14-24 is certainly the standard today. However, it is fast, expensive, heavy, and large, almost everything the proverbial DA15 shouldn't be. Flexibility in size and cost make lens production a much easier task.

I still stand by my argument that while creating a lens that performs better than the DA14 is possible, there is no way that lens is going to be smaller and cheaper than the DA14 if people want it to be F/3.5 with Limited quality, unless they make it obscenely slow.
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