KEH and Canada... my 50mm 1.4 takamur story

riff · 11-23-2012, 09:28 AM

Ouch Norm! The taxes here would be 10% on the $60 US after conversion to CDN.
I can't remember the last time I was charged duty. We have a "free trade" agreement but it applies to goods substantially manufactured in the US. So duty can apply to things bought in the US but no for the most part made there. Generally duty is usually pretty low ~3% I'd speculate from memory.
The brokerage fee has nothing to do with the Government, I've picked up many packages from customs myself and they charge no brokerage fee.
Item classification is a nightmare so for businesses importing large orders a good broker should save you money.
The couriers are damn poor brokers in my experience. Been charged duty on things that should have no duty because they forked up the classification but still expect a big fee.

I do agree there is so effort from the government to limit cross border shopping. Especially if you drive across.

**boriscleto** · 11-23-2012, 09:31 AM

Originally posted by brianV

Amazon has started doing this as well. They added $43 in 'estimated taxes and fees' to the purchase I made.

I don't care about the 'estimated' part - I'll pay the extra few bucks to not have to worry about it again.

I'm willing to net the Canadian government doesn't see a dime of that. Amazon has an agreement with the State of New York to collect sales taxes, but they don't pay NY sales taxes as they have no business presence in NY.

brianV · 11-23-2012, 09:56 AM

Originally posted by boriscleto

I'm willing to net the Canadian government doesn't see a dime of that. Amazon has an agreement with the State of New York to collect sales taxes, but they don't pay NY sales taxes as they have no business presence in NY.

Yep. I get my stuff shipped to my mailing address in NY State. You just need to take the 4% NY sales tax into account now. As long as the difference in shipping costs between US and Canada is greater than 4% of the overall price, it's still worth it (assuming, of course, that the US sale price is more than 4% less than the Canadian sale price).

aleonx3 · 11-23-2012, 10:17 AM

I have purchased camera gears many times from the States before, I would only purchase from B&H now as they use a more economical shipping carrier (ie. Purolator, Canadian company). Their brokerage fee is quite reasonable compare to other carriers. Among others, UPS is the worst I have seen, their brokerage fee is outrageously high; and for that reason, I don't shop from KEH or Adorama any more. On ebay, I would not buy from anyone who does not offer USPS first class International mail option.

riff · 11-23-2012, 10:33 AM

I guess the US economy is booming along so "they" can afford to blow off Canada, it's a small market after all.

bluenose · 11-23-2012, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by aleonx3

I have purchased camera gears many times from the States before, I would only purchase from B&H now as they use a more economical shipping carrier (ie. Purolator, Canadian company). Their brokerage fee is quite reasonable compare to other carriers. Among others, UPS is the worst I have seen, their brokerage fee is outrageously high; and for that reason, I don't shop from KEH or Adorama any more. On ebay, I would not buy from anyone who does not offer USPS first class International mail option.

+1 on B&H. The shipping to Canada includes all duties, taxes, etc. and based on my previous orders with them, quite reasonable.

Regards

BrianR · 11-23-2012, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by bdery

Nope, there is a difference. Many stores will charge you taxesto cross the border, which might or might not apply depending on the goods (for instance, used goods and most camera gear should benefit from our free trade agreement and carry no customs taxes).

Sorry, I don't understand what you're disagreeing with?

Camera gear from the States to Canada has no duty, but is still subject to HST/GST when it crosses the border. I have no problem with this, it has nothing to do with the shipper. This is the USPS/Canada Post gamble that you sometimes randomly 'win' when they don't bother or forget to collect.

The brokerage fees are what the shipping company charges you to fill out the customs forms, collect, and (theoretically) submit the applicable taxes. I don't really care if the brokerage fees are massive as long as I don't have to go hunting to find out what they will be. As long as they are up front about it, they can call it brokerage, roll it into their usual shipping fee, or put it in their daquiri fund. It's the total I have to pay that matters, not how UPS/Purolator/FedEx breaks it up. Not having it clearly pointed out at the merchants check out is a real stinker, and I give full props to B&H and others who provide full disclosure.

Even though we get to pay more to have something shipped from B&H than someone in the States, it's still often cheaper than shopping in Canada.

normhead · 11-23-2012, 03:27 PM

I ordered some metal paper based prints from Kodak Canada a while a go, just to get an idea what they were like. The cost of the prints came out to around 50 bucks... they came with a request for a 15$ brokerage fee. I just refused to pay it. There was nothing on the Kodak site that indicated they prints would be shipped from the US. There was nothing to indicate anything but standard shipping costs would apply. it's too bad Ihave to stiff someone, it should be Kodak. It really doesn't matter, I explained the situation from them and told them to come after me if they wanted their 15 bucks. I haven't heard back from them. The prints were just 4x6's. I have no idea why a parcel like that would even be sent to a brokerage. It seems to be completely hit or miss.

riff · 11-23-2012, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by BrianR

I don't really care if the brokerage fees are massive as long as I don't have to go hunting to find out what they will be.

Don't follow this, Canada Post charges $5.00... that's five dollars for "brokerage" regardless of the item value. Duty on camera gear is zero to negligible and you know how much the taxes you have to pay are. Generally on items less then $250.00 your going to pay five bux brokerage, no tax and no duty if the item is shipped by postal service from anywhere in the world.

Wired · 11-23-2012, 10:55 PM

well, it showed up, after much fighting.

I called first thing this morning once I got a tracking number from KEH to get UPS to either redirect it to my shop or to get it sent to the nearest store/warehouse so I can pick it up on the way home. They said sure, no problem, it will be available for pickup at 5:00pm from this address in the middle of the warehouse district. Whatever.

I then get a call at 4:45 that the drivers attempted a third time to deliver the package and that it will be sent back to the sender if I didn't pick it up by end of business Monday as the drive will not be able to make it back to the depot before they close @ 7:00. I asked the dispatcher if he got the message, I didn't say what the message was. She then proceeded to read off the notes by the previous agent who told me that it was going to be dropped at the depot. So I bee-line it to the depot after work to see if I can get more answers in person.

The depot...debit machine is down. But they will take a cheque, or money order, or a credit card. My credit card... forgot it at the hotel in Calgary (thats a whole pain story I wont' get into) and who in their 20's carries checks? Luckily my debits a combo card... didn't matter, as the they said they couldn't help me as the driver is back logged and wont be back until way after they closed. I gave them a BS story how thats unacceptable. Then proceeded to tell them about the dispatch call, and the fact he kept leaving notes on my dining room window and not paying attention to my note to just bring it to the depot (which I brought in with me)

They then noticed the guy was only 5 minutes from my house and sent him back so my wife could open the door and pay with her credit card. Always a fun way to open a conversation... "what do you mean you bought another lens" I believe it was... but luckily I got out of that one very easily tonight. something about new bedroom furniture that ended up on credit card last weekend I recall...

So anyways..... lets proceed to step two of this debacle.

when I emailed the sales department at KEH about this lens I asked where the IR marking was. They said to the right of the 4 and it was an 8 element version. It's a 7 element version.. SUPER-MULTI-COATING Takumar. I emailed them back about the mix up, don't expect to get a reply till Tuesday.

whole process has soured me on KEH.....

Now, lets get back to B&H and UPS here...

I got my Christmas bonus this week, as well as my forecasted check (I'm paid on department gross profits), and a few photo gigs I got coming up I was going to complete my FA limited collection by ordering both the FA 31 and FA 43 from B&H. Kind of a Christmas gift to myself (already cleared with the wifey)... but I'm now scared how brown my pants will be when I get hit with the brokerage on that one... or am I correct in the understanding that brokerage is handled upfront from B&H from previous commenters?

The price is absurd for those two lenses in Canada.... $1349 regular retail for the FA31 and $919 regular retail for the FA43. Both are on sale right now for $1279 and $869 respectively.

**gofour3** · 11-23-2012, 11:08 PM

Originally posted by Wired

Now, lets get back to B&H and UPS here...

I got my Christmas bonus this week, as well as my forecasted check (I'm paid on department gross profits), and a few photo gigs I got coming up I was going to complete my FA limited collection by ordering both the FA 31 and FA 43 from B&H. Kind of a Christmas gift to myself (already cleared with the wifey)... but I'm now scared how brown my pants will be when I get hit with the brokerage on that one... or am I correct in the understanding that brokerage is handled upfront from B&H from previous commenters?

The price is absurd for those two lenses in Canada.... $1349 regular retail for the FA31 and $919 regular retail for the FA43. Both are on sale right now for $1279 and $869 respectively.

If you order from B&H and have it shipped to Canada one option is to prepay the fees & taxes and the other option is when you receive the items. Just add the two lenses to your cart and you can preview the shipping options.

Phil.

pxpaulx · 11-23-2012, 11:28 PM

Originally posted by gofour3

There are also a lot of eBay sellers in the US that refuse to send anything to Canada unless it’s USPS Express Mail International. They claim it’s a minimum requirement from eBay. As a result you buy a lens cap for $10.00 and have to pay $30.00 for shipping.

Phil.

if you want your package to arrive quickly and with proper proof of delivery then yes, express is the only viable usps option. forget first class mail, that is a crap shoot, and priority is slightly cheaper, takes twice as long or more (with poor tracking and no signature) and insuring a priority mail package is much more expensive than an express mail package (yes, to the point it is not worth the difference...price out a $300 package both ways if you don't believe me).

BrianR · 11-24-2012, 06:34 AM

Originally posted by riff

Don't follow this, Canada Post charges $5.00... that's five dollars for "brokerage" regardless of the item value. Duty on camera gear is zero to negligible and you know how much the taxes you have to pay are. Generally on items less then $250.00 your going to pay five bux brokerage, no tax and no duty if the item is shipped by postal service from anywhere in the world.

I know Canada Post Charges a flat brokerage fee. However there is tax on imported camera gear, HST/GST/PST, but no added duty on on most camera stuff (see photoprice.ca: Cross-Border Tax, Duty, and Brokerage Fees Demystified and photoprice.ca: Duty on Camera Equipment).

The brokerage charged by UPS depends on the items value, I resent having to look this up (it's not a %). No, its not complicated I can sort this out, but imo it should all be at the checkout and it not being there results in frustration for many people who don't know about it and get surprised at delivery. I'd rather they just included this brokerage fee into the shipping total, it makes absolutely zero difference to me how they break it up. I just want the total so I can price shop.

iNicole · 11-24-2012, 08:24 AM

Originally posted by boriscleto

I thought he was just typing with a Canadian accent.

Hey! I'm Canadian and our accent sounds exactly like American's from New York (not Texas...). He's probably just not very good at spelling! Or typed too fast..

riff · 11-24-2012, 11:24 AM

I know how this stuff works too.

So

Originally posted by BrianR

I don't really care if the brokerage fees are massive as long as I don't have to go hunting to find out what they will be.

but

Originally posted by BrianR

I'd rather they just included this brokerage fee into the shipping total, it makes absolutely zero difference to me how they break it up. I just want the total so I can price shop.

Price shopping is at landed cost imo, so if it doesn't ship by Postal Service at or near actual cost I ain't buying.

I guess we agree to disagree.

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11-23-2012, 09:28 AM	#16
riff Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,408	Ouch Norm! The taxes here would be 10% on the $60 US after conversion to CDN. I can't remember the last time I was charged duty. We have a "free trade" agreement but it applies to goods substantially manufactured in the US. So duty can apply to things bought in the US but no for the most part made there. Generally duty is usually pretty low ~3% I'd speculate from memory. The brokerage fee has nothing to do with the Government, I've picked up many packages from customs myself and they charge no brokerage fee. Item classification is a nightmare so for businesses importing large orders a good broker should save you money. The couriers are damn poor brokers in my experience. Been charged duty on things that should have no duty because they forked up the classification but still expect a big fee. I do agree there is so effort from the government to limit cross border shopping. Especially if you drive across.

11-23-2012, 09:31 AM	#17
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,475	Originally posted by brianV Amazon has started doing this as well. They added $43 in 'estimated taxes and fees' to the purchase I made. I don't care about the 'estimated' part - I'll pay the extra few bucks to not have to worry about it again. I'm willing to net the Canadian government doesn't see a dime of that. Amazon has an agreement with the State of New York to collect sales taxes, but they don't pay NY sales taxes as they have no business presence in NY.

11-23-2012, 09:56 AM	#18
brianV New Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 16	Originally posted by boriscleto I'm willing to net the Canadian government doesn't see a dime of that. Amazon has an agreement with the State of New York to collect sales taxes, but they don't pay NY sales taxes as they have no business presence in NY. Yep. I get my stuff shipped to my mailing address in NY State. You just need to take the 4% NY sales tax into account now. As long as the difference in shipping costs between US and Canada is greater than 4% of the overall price, it's still worth it (assuming, of course, that the US sale price is more than 4% less than the Canadian sale price).

11-23-2012, 10:17 AM	#19
aleonx3 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,996	I have purchased camera gears many times from the States before, I would only purchase from B&H now as they use a more economical shipping carrier (ie. Purolator, Canadian company). Their brokerage fee is quite reasonable compare to other carriers. Among others, UPS is the worst I have seen, their brokerage fee is outrageously high; and for that reason, I don't shop from KEH or Adorama any more. On ebay, I would not buy from anyone who does not offer USPS first class International mail option.

11-23-2012, 10:33 AM	#20
riff Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,408	I guess the US economy is booming along so "they" can afford to blow off Canada, it's a small market after all.

11-23-2012, 11:00 AM	#21
bluenose Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: S. Ontario Posts: 227	Originally posted by aleonx3 I have purchased camera gears many times from the States before, I would only purchase from B&H now as they use a more economical shipping carrier (ie. Purolator, Canadian company). Their brokerage fee is quite reasonable compare to other carriers. Among others, UPS is the worst I have seen, their brokerage fee is outrageously high; and for that reason, I don't shop from KEH or Adorama any more. On ebay, I would not buy from anyone who does not offer USPS first class International mail option. +1 on B&H. The shipping to Canada includes all duties, taxes, etc. and based on my previous orders with them, quite reasonable. Regards

11-23-2012, 01:37 PM	#22
BrianR Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Ontario Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,332	Originally posted by bdery Nope, there is a difference. Many stores will charge you taxesto cross the border, which might or might not apply depending on the goods (for instance, used goods and most camera gear should benefit from our free trade agreement and carry no customs taxes). Sorry, I don't understand what you're disagreeing with? Camera gear from the States to Canada has no duty, but is still subject to HST/GST when it crosses the border. I have no problem with this, it has nothing to do with the shipper. This is the USPS/Canada Post gamble that you sometimes randomly 'win' when they don't bother or forget to collect. The brokerage fees are what the shipping company charges you to fill out the customs forms, collect, and (theoretically) submit the applicable taxes. I don't really care if the brokerage fees are massive as long as I don't have to go hunting to find out what they will be. As long as they are up front about it, they can call it brokerage, roll it into their usual shipping fee, or put it in their daquiri fund. It's the total I have to pay that matters, not how UPS/Purolator/FedEx breaks it up. Not having it clearly pointed out at the merchants check out is a real stinker, and I give full props to B&H and others who provide full disclosure. Even though we get to pay more to have something shipped from B&H than someone in the States, it's still often cheaper than shopping in Canada.

11-23-2012, 03:27 PM	#23
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	I ordered some metal paper based prints from Kodak Canada a while a go, just to get an idea what they were like. The cost of the prints came out to around 50 bucks... they came with a request for a 15$ brokerage fee. I just refused to pay it. There was nothing on the Kodak site that indicated they prints would be shipped from the US. There was nothing to indicate anything but standard shipping costs would apply. it's too bad Ihave to stiff someone, it should be Kodak. It really doesn't matter, I explained the situation from them and told them to come after me if they wanted their 15 bucks. I haven't heard back from them. The prints were just 4x6's. I have no idea why a parcel like that would even be sent to a brokerage. It seems to be completely hit or miss.

11-23-2012, 03:38 PM	#24
riff Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,408	Originally posted by BrianR I don't really care if the brokerage fees are massive as long as I don't have to go hunting to find out what they will be. Don't follow this, Canada Post charges $5.00... that's five dollars for "brokerage" regardless of the item value. Duty on camera gear is zero to negligible and you know how much the taxes you have to pay are. Generally on items less then $250.00 your going to pay five bux brokerage, no tax and no duty if the item is shipped by postal service from anywhere in the world.

11-23-2012, 10:55 PM	#25
Wired Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Edmonton, AB Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,519 Original Poster	well, it showed up, after much fighting. I called first thing this morning once I got a tracking number from KEH to get UPS to either redirect it to my shop or to get it sent to the nearest store/warehouse so I can pick it up on the way home. They said sure, no problem, it will be available for pickup at 5:00pm from this address in the middle of the warehouse district. Whatever. I then get a call at 4:45 that the drivers attempted a third time to deliver the package and that it will be sent back to the sender if I didn't pick it up by end of business Monday as the drive will not be able to make it back to the depot before they close @ 7:00. I asked the dispatcher if he got the message, I didn't say what the message was. She then proceeded to read off the notes by the previous agent who told me that it was going to be dropped at the depot. So I bee-line it to the depot after work to see if I can get more answers in person. The depot...debit machine is down. But they will take a cheque, or money order, or a credit card. My credit card... forgot it at the hotel in Calgary (thats a whole pain story I wont' get into) and who in their 20's carries checks? Luckily my debits a combo card... didn't matter, as the they said they couldn't help me as the driver is back logged and wont be back until way after they closed. I gave them a BS story how thats unacceptable. Then proceeded to tell them about the dispatch call, and the fact he kept leaving notes on my dining room window and not paying attention to my note to just bring it to the depot (which I brought in with me) They then noticed the guy was only 5 minutes from my house and sent him back so my wife could open the door and pay with her credit card. Always a fun way to open a conversation... "what do you mean you bought another lens" I believe it was... but luckily I got out of that one very easily tonight. something about new bedroom furniture that ended up on credit card last weekend I recall... So anyways..... lets proceed to step two of this debacle. when I emailed the sales department at KEH about this lens I asked where the IR marking was. They said to the right of the 4 and it was an 8 element version. It's a 7 element version.. SUPER-MULTI-COATING Takumar. I emailed them back about the mix up, don't expect to get a reply till Tuesday. whole process has soured me on KEH..... Now, lets get back to B&H and UPS here... I got my Christmas bonus this week, as well as my forecasted check (I'm paid on department gross profits), and a few photo gigs I got coming up I was going to complete my FA limited collection by ordering both the FA 31 and FA 43 from B&H. Kind of a Christmas gift to myself (already cleared with the wifey)... but I'm now scared how brown my pants will be when I get hit with the brokerage on that one... or am I correct in the understanding that brokerage is handled upfront from B&H from previous commenters? The price is absurd for those two lenses in Canada.... $1349 regular retail for the FA31 and $919 regular retail for the FA43. Both are on sale right now for $1279 and $869 respectively.

11-23-2012, 11:08 PM	#26
gofour3 Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 8,090	Originally posted by Wired Now, lets get back to B&H and UPS here... I got my Christmas bonus this week, as well as my forecasted check (I'm paid on department gross profits), and a few photo gigs I got coming up I was going to complete my FA limited collection by ordering both the FA 31 and FA 43 from B&H. Kind of a Christmas gift to myself (already cleared with the wifey)... but I'm now scared how brown my pants will be when I get hit with the brokerage on that one... or am I correct in the understanding that brokerage is handled upfront from B&H from previous commenters? The price is absurd for those two lenses in Canada.... $1349 regular retail for the FA31 and $919 regular retail for the FA43. Both are on sale right now for $1279 and $869 respectively. If you order from B&H and have it shipped to Canada one option is to prepay the fees & taxes and the other option is when you receive the items. Just add the two lenses to your cart and you can preview the shipping options. Phil.

11-23-2012, 11:28 PM	#27
pxpaulx Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 2,867	Originally posted by gofour3 There are also a lot of eBay sellers in the US that refuse to send anything to Canada unless it’s USPS Express Mail International. They claim it’s a minimum requirement from eBay. As a result you buy a lens cap for $10.00 and have to pay $30.00 for shipping. Phil. if you want your package to arrive quickly and with proper proof of delivery then yes, express is the only viable usps option. forget first class mail, that is a crap shoot, and priority is slightly cheaper, takes twice as long or more (with poor tracking and no signature) and insuring a priority mail package is much more expensive than an express mail package (yes, to the point it is not worth the difference...price out a $300 package both ways if you don't believe me).

11-24-2012, 06:34 AM	#28
BrianR Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Ontario Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,332	Originally posted by riff Don't follow this, Canada Post charges $5.00... that's five dollars for "brokerage" regardless of the item value. Duty on camera gear is zero to negligible and you know how much the taxes you have to pay are. Generally on items less then $250.00 your going to pay five bux brokerage, no tax and no duty if the item is shipped by postal service from anywhere in the world. I know Canada Post Charges a flat brokerage fee. However there is tax on imported camera gear, HST/GST/PST, but no added duty on on most camera stuff (see photoprice.ca: Cross-Border Tax, Duty, and Brokerage Fees Demystified and photoprice.ca: Duty on Camera Equipment). The brokerage charged by UPS depends on the items value, I resent having to look this up (it's not a %). No, its not complicated I can sort this out, but imo it should all be at the checkout and it not being there results in frustration for many people who don't know about it and get surprised at delivery. I'd rather they just included this brokerage fee into the shipping total, it makes absolutely zero difference to me how they break it up. I just want the total so I can price shop.

11-24-2012, 08:24 AM	#29
iNicole Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 121	Originally posted by boriscleto I thought he was just typing with a Canadian accent. Hey! I'm Canadian and our accent sounds exactly like American's from New York (not Texas...). He's probably just not very good at spelling! Or typed too fast..

11-24-2012, 11:24 AM	#30
riff Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,408	I know how this stuff works too. So Originally posted by BrianR I don't really care if the brokerage fees are massive as long as I don't have to go hunting to find out what they will be. but Originally posted by BrianR I'd rather they just included this brokerage fee into the shipping total, it makes absolutely zero difference to me how they break it up. I just want the total so I can price shop. Price shopping is at landed cost imo, so if it doesn't ship by Postal Service at or near actual cost I ain't buying. I guess we agree to disagree.