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11-27-2012, 04:25 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by rvannatta Quote
usually 800 or 1600, but even so you have pushed the envelope
Not so much. The DxOMark High-ISO score is helpful here. It gives you the highest ISO number at which (by their estimation) image IQ is still going to be great with a camera ('the highest ISO setting for a camera that allows it to achieve an SNR of 30dB while keeping a good dynamic range of 9 EVs and a color depth of 18bits...A difference in low-light ISO of 25% represents 1/3 EV and is only slightly noticeable.').

For the K-7 their low-light score is 536, K200D 561, K20D 639, K-r 755, K-x 811, K-30 1129, K-01 1135 K-5 1162, K-5 II 1235.

These ISO numbers match my experience, and help me expand my range of TAv parameters. With my K-x I am very confident shooting 800-1600 ISO as there is almost no visible loss of IQ, even moreso with the K-5. But with my K200D, I've found that 1600 ISO does indeed push the IQ envelope, hence I would never go anywhere near 1600 ISO for wildlife when shooting the K200D.

11-27-2012, 05:57 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Not so much. The DxOMark High-ISO score is helpful here. It gives you the highest ISO number at which (by their estimation) image IQ is still going to be great with a camera ('the highest ISO setting for a camera that allows it to achieve an SNR of 30dB while keeping a good dynamic range of 9 EVs and a color depth of 18bits...A difference in low-light ISO of 25% represents 1/3 EV and is only slightly noticeable.').

For the K-7 their low-light score is 536, K200D 561, K20D 639, K-r 755, K-x 811, K-30 1129, K-01 1135 K-5 1162, K-5 II 1235.

These ISO numbers match my experience, and help me expand my range of TAv parameters. With my K-x I am very confident shooting 800-1600 ISO as there is almost no visible loss of IQ, even moreso with the K-5. But with my K200D, I've found that 1600 ISO does indeed push the IQ envelope, hence I would never go anywhere near 1600 ISO for wildlife when shooting the K200D.
agreed. I've still got a K10d around that I used for some years before the K5 came out. I sure didn't do ISO 800-1600 with it. I hadn't seen
the statistics but my expierience is consistent with this.l
11-27-2012, 06:18 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
A 2.8 will give you more light for focus. In low light that is usually the issue, not enough for either manual or auto focus. And you can put tc on it without losing the ability to see enough to focus. Rarely would anyone with a 2.8 soot wide open unless the conditions were such that you could see exactly where the focus was.
I like to use my EOS 300mm f2.8 wide open often even with a TC, it can be pretty good for portraits even they say, though I don't do humans much.

11-27-2012, 06:33 PM   #34
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I can't see the why one would shoot wide open. I get better detail in the bird when shooting at f8 or less.

11-27-2012, 06:52 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by photolady Quote
I can't see the why one would shoot wide open. I get better detail in the bird when shooting at f8 or less.
Wide open sharpness is what costs the money and I like to go out around sunrise so it was worth it for me. I really did like the da*300, and am thinking of trying the canon 300mm f4, just for something lighter during the week. I'd like a macro too though.

I should elaborate as I try to keep my shutter speed up and position myself for take off and flying shots so f2.8 is handy, at least until the sun has been up a while, and the real early light can be pretty special.

Last edited by borno; 11-27-2012 at 07:07 PM.
11-27-2012, 07:15 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by photolady Quote
Thanks to all for your input. FYI, I never shoot wide open on any of my lenses. My two telezooms are f4.5-5.6. Both are not tack sharp at 300mm and both are not shot at the most wide open. I usually shoot at around f8. Though sometimes, like in my shaded back yard, I've had to drop that down to f7.1 to 6.3 and I don't like that because I don't get enough DOF that way. The below bird was shot with my rebadged/rebranded Quantaray (Sigma) 70-300mm at 300mm @f8:
Since you live in Florida and animals are so close, why not try larger apertures for isolation and speed?
11-27-2012, 08:31 PM   #37
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Living in Florida has nothing to do with why I shoot the way I do. I've shot this way since my film days in Arkansas and Minnesota.

Tom, I can see now why you shoot wide open. Early morning light would make me shoot that way too but the birds I shoot are there between 10am and 4pm. Course I try to stay away from the docks at noon. Too harsh a light then.
11-27-2012, 11:25 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by photolady Quote
I can't see the why one would shoot wide open. I get better detail in the bird when shooting at f8 or less.
Perhaps at the expense of shutter speed or motion blurr, depending on the subject. Herons are relative
Y simple, most of the time, they stand like statutes. Try stopping down, using low ISO and a tripod and shooting a hummingbird

You really only have so many options and not all subjects stand still. Tom's shot indicates one necessary thing about shooting wide open. You need to be at right angles for the subject, otherwise too much is out of the depth of field. Sometimes that can make for a great shot, though, if you nail the focus on the eye

11-28-2012, 10:49 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by photolady Quote
First of all, I don't use teleconverters mainly because where I shoot they are not needed. The birds I shoot are usually less than 20 feet from the end of my lens/es. And I agree, I didn't ask the right question, as I believe, I got all the wrong answers. Right now I'm not sure how to ask what I was thinking when I said faster.

Unless it's sunny outside, I don't shoot at ISO 100. Usually, ISO is set to 200, 400 or even 800 (cloudy days).
Some thoughts, maybe not useful:

That distance is sometimes a problem with older long lenses. Make sure the lens you're looking at has a minimum focus distance that works for you. The K300/4 only focuses down to 13 feet.

Your current zooms might only be 300mm at infinity focus, considerably shorter actual focal length at the minimum distance.

Do you keep old shots around even if they didn't work? One reason I keep them is to figure out if upgrading equipment would have gotten me that shot, or the shot was doomed anyway. Say you used f9.5 because a wider aperture would have too little depth of field. To get the correct exposure you then used ISO 800 and 1/60, and the subject moved too much. A new lens wouldn't help that shot, but going to ISO 6400 would allow a shutter speed of 1/500.
11-28-2012, 11:05 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Just1MoreDave Quote
ISO 6400
Really noisy at that setting on my K-x and no amount of noise reducing software helps. Birds move, there is no way around that, so shooting at any shutter speeds less than 1/500s is just stupid, IMO.
11-28-2012, 11:51 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by photolady Quote
Really noisy at that setting on my K-x and no amount of noise reducing software helps. Birds move, there is no way around that, so shooting at any shutter speeds less than 1/500s is just stupid, IMO.
See how that helps? The example proves you need a truckload of money for a camera with good results at 6400.
11-28-2012, 01:38 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Just1MoreDave Quote
The example proves you need a truckload of money for a camera with good results at 6400
Send me the money and I'll buy the new K-30. When I bought this K-x the word around was it was great in low light with higher ISO. The highest I can go without a lot of noise is, ISO 800. Which to be truthful, is better than my K100D was, I couldn't go higher than ISO400 on that one.
11-28-2012, 05:05 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by photolady Quote
it was great in low light with higher ISO
K-x fanboy here. I could shoot wildlife with the K-x all day at 1600 ISO with no noticeable issues of noise or IQ degradation, especially if the light was OK and I just needed to keep the shutter high or aperture small. 3200 ISO for small prints or web use is also usually fine if the contrast is right and there is no motion blur.

PPing in Lightroom (it took me WAY too long to learn about the 'Masking' slider under the 'Sharpening' section of Lightroom, and it's impact on apparent noise when sharpening!), and shooting RAW+ helps, as does avoiding heavy crops at higher ISO's.
11-28-2012, 06:21 PM   #44
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rawr, I found that noise at higher ISOs was when I shoot in my shaded back yard. Actually, the low noise level was the main reason I got this K-x and to shoot in my back yard. But when I shoot at anything over ISO 800 the noise is there. Lots of it. I don't have Lightroom, I have Photoshop Elements vers. 9. Well, I also have PhotoShop 7 but have to save my photos as .bmp or tiff to use that for editing as my version doesn't see RAW. I missed the update to allow version 7 to see RAW and now I can't get it to work. I've never shot higher ISOs in sunny conditions, so don't know how that would work and if it would be less noisy in that situation.
11-28-2012, 07:12 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by photolady Quote
I have Photoshop Elements vers. 9
But.. Adobe Camera Raw has been supporting the K-x since v5.6, and it is now up to v6.5 on Elements 9. So you should be able to directly open K-x RAWs in Elements 9.

Adobe - Photoshop Elements : For Windows

I have Elements 8, but not PhotoShop at all, and it works fine for me.
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