Lens ratings skewed by clots

Docrwm · 11-30-2012, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by Blue

How difficult is it to rate something on a scale of 1 o 10? Farah Fawcett used to be considered The Perfect 10 but not everyone agreed on that.

However, there are currently 6 categories for rating plus an overall rating and it has been that way for a while. Some people have gone back and updated there ratings pre-dating that an some haven't. On the rating, it shows that 1 is poor and somewhere between 5 and 6 is good with 10 being excellent. I think if anything, half number increments would be something of an improvement. Otherwise, just dealing with the odd outliers like a person that gives a lens a 1 just because some one else gave it a 10.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I preferred Barbara Eden myself. Some rate the K-r a 10, others find its problems with tungsten and other issues detract from a 10. Ratings only really raise peoples blood pressure when their ox is the one gored. The refinement a few months back of adding subscale ratings has done a lot to improve the place. I do think that someone ought to be a member for a while, either time or # of posts, before they are allowed to rate equipment but that's just me.

lytrytyr · 12-01-2012, 12:54 AM

Originally posted by Docrwm

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I preferred Barbara Eden myself.

This thread is starting to take an interesting turn.

**Michaelina2** · 12-01-2012, 05:14 AM

I like to read the various write-ups, but don't pay too much attention to the numbers (after all... what's a 2 when no two 2s are the same even from the same reviewer?). It's easy to identify clunker reviews and goofy reviewers. Instead of getting too wrapped up in review standardization, perhaps it might be helpful to ask the reviewer to identify which camera they used. I can imagine a particular lens paired to an old K100 might not get the same respect as it would, if paired to a more modern model that demands better glass like today's K5 IIs, or even more demanding, the Q.

...my two cents...M

Class A · 12-01-2012, 06:12 PM

Originally posted by Michaelina2

I can imagine a particular lens paired to an old K100 might not get the same respect as it would, if paired to a more modern model that demands better glass like today's K5 IIs, or even more demanding, the Q.

You have that backwards since most people would be impressed by pixel-sharpness at 100% views which is easier to achieve with lower pixel-pitch cameras like the K100D.

BTW, regarding "old", I'd venture a guess that 80% of K-5 users could do 80% of their shots with a K100D and not notice any loss of quality for the output formats they are using. I'm still using a K100D and only very rarely I wish I had the quicker AF or the better dynamic range of the K-5.

elliott · 12-01-2012, 06:35 PM

Originally posted by Class A

You have that backwards since most people would be impressed by pixel-sharpness at 100% views which is easier to achieve with lower pixel-pitch cameras like the K100D.

BTW, regarding "old", I'd venture a guess that 80% of K-5 users could do 80% of their shots with a K100D and not notice any loss of quality for the output formats they are using. I'm still using a K100D and only very rarely I wish I had the quicker AF or the better dynamic range of the K-5.

I just upgraded from a K100D to a K-5, but I really didn't do it for image quality alone and I'm still keeping the K100D around. I'm still learning the character of the K-5 right now, so I could probably still do better with my K100D than I can with the K-5 in some circumstances.

Transit · 12-01-2012, 08:00 PM

Originally posted by Class A

As others have pointed out, inflated ratings are a problem as well.

If there is to be anything else but a straight average -- a distribution being the ideal -- I suggest a weighted mean, for instance, the average of all ratings without the bottom and top 2.5% ratings.

I want a graph Mate...with colours and special stars !
Can the whole database cross reference ?
That would be neat

Pete

...in a country that never has Pentax sales

Transit · 12-01-2012, 08:25 PM

Originally posted by Class A

...... I'm still using a K100D and only very rarely I wish I had the quicker AF or the better dynamic range of the K-5.

but don't you also long for an iso button, iso over 800, AF tuning, more pixies or a prism ?
Pentax should advance FF plans and put you out of yer misery

elliott · 12-01-2012, 09:27 PM

Originally posted by Transit

but don't you also long for an iso button, iso over 800, AF tuning, more pixies or a prism ?

Don't forget ISO under 200 too.

Transit · 12-01-2012, 09:52 PM

It's a long list elliott, I didn't want to put the boot in too much,
he is a fellow Kiwi after all

Class A · 12-02-2012, 12:28 AM

Originally posted by Transit

Pentax should advance FF plans and put you out of yer misery

Amen to that!

Blue · 12-02-2012, 07:43 AM

Originally posted by Transit

It's a long list elliott, I didn't want to put the boot in too much,
he is a fellow Kiwi after all

We would hate to have to bring in an Aussie to moderate things.

(just kidding)

tim60 · 12-02-2012, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by Blue

We would hate to have to bring in an Aussie to moderate things.

(just kidding)

I had the same cricket coach as Greg Chappell when I went to school. The economics teacher once said to Greg: "If you do not give up cricket and do more study you will never get anywhere in life." Cricket coach did not do me as much good. My last game was on 30/11/74.

I cold moderate for you Kiwi's. Going to Auckland on thursday this week.

Transit · 12-02-2012, 02:01 PM

Last thing we need is you blokes rummaging around over here
Perhaps you could intercede with a FF appeal to Pentax instead

GlennG · 12-02-2012, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by Class A

You have that backwards since most people would be impressed by pixel-sharpness at 100% views which is easier to achieve with lower pixel-pitch cameras like the K100D. BTW, regarding "old", I'd venture a guess that 80% of K-5 users could do 80% of their shots with a K100D and not notice any loss of quality for the output formats they are using. I'm still using a K100D and only very rarely I wish I had the quicker AF or the better dynamic range of the K-5.

Great wisdom, Class A! Or, at least it would seem to me to be as such, since I've only my trusty K100dS and nothing else relevant to compare to it. AF speed, low light ISO, and higher DR are the primary reasons for me to upgrade, and not more MP. 6 MP, believe it or not, IS enough. Image quality is always important. Analagously, a few years ago, when I was looking in detail at HDTV's, IQ was dependent on, predominantly, contrast levels, color saturation, color accuracy, and, fourth on the list, was resolution. I was happy to know that for HDTV's, they knew what was important, and in what order. I've not heard any such ordering for IQ from DSLR's. I agree with Rockwell - you just don't need that many MP's. The thing I fear about upgrading (and I will, soon) is that I'll spend a lot of money and then find that I'll have mostly just larger files, but not necessarily better ones, for about 80% of the time. My $0.02.

Transit · 12-02-2012, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by tim60

I had the same cricket coach as Greg Chappell when I went to school. The economics teacher once said to Greg: "If you do not give up cricket and do more study you will never get anywhere in life." Cricket coach did not do me as much good. My last game was on 30/11/74.

I cold moderate for you Kiwi's. Going to Auckland on thursday this week.

The words Chappell and moderate in the same post

Just roll that sucker along the ground bro

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
The problem with lens ratings.. 21 ltd	normhead	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	32	03-26-2012 07:25 PM
Error Different ratings in lens reviews	Jonathan Mac	Site Suggestions and Help	4	11-08-2011 09:58 PM
Suggestion lens review ratings - shadow text?	duncsuss	Site Suggestions and Help	7	07-13-2011 11:05 AM
skewed body design	shuie	Pentax DSLR Discussion	19	10-31-2008 03:32 AM
Consumer Reports - Lens Ratings?!?	storm	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	8	06-10-2007 12:05 PM

11-30-2012, 03:53 PM	#61
Docrwm Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Somewhere in the Southern US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,285	Originally posted by Blue How difficult is it to rate something on a scale of 1 o 10? Farah Fawcett used to be considered The Perfect 10 but not everyone agreed on that. However, there are currently 6 categories for rating plus an overall rating and it has been that way for a while. Some people have gone back and updated there ratings pre-dating that an some haven't. On the rating, it shows that 1 is poor and somewhere between 5 and 6 is good with 10 being excellent. I think if anything, half number increments would be something of an improvement. Otherwise, just dealing with the odd outliers like a person that gives a lens a 1 just because some one else gave it a 10. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I preferred Barbara Eden myself. Some rate the K-r a 10, others find its problems with tungsten and other issues detract from a 10. Ratings only really raise peoples blood pressure when their ox is the one gored. The refinement a few months back of adding subscale ratings has done a lot to improve the place. I do think that someone ought to be a member for a while, either time or # of posts, before they are allowed to rate equipment but that's just me.

12-01-2012, 12:54 AM	#62
lytrytyr Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,310	Originally posted by Docrwm Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I preferred Barbara Eden myself. This thread is starting to take an interesting turn.

12-01-2012, 05:14 AM	#63
Michaelina2 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: SE Michigan USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,300	I like to read the various write-ups, but don't pay too much attention to the numbers (after all... what's a 2 when no two 2s are the same even from the same reviewer?). It's easy to identify clunker reviews and goofy reviewers. Instead of getting too wrapped up in review standardization, perhaps it might be helpful to ask the reviewer to identify which camera they used. I can imagine a particular lens paired to an old K100 might not get the same respect as it would, if paired to a more modern model that demands better glass like today's K5 IIs, or even more demanding, the Q. ...my two cents...M

12-01-2012, 06:12 PM	#64
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by Michaelina2 I can imagine a particular lens paired to an old K100 might not get the same respect as it would, if paired to a more modern model that demands better glass like today's K5 IIs, or even more demanding, the Q. You have that backwards since most people would be impressed by pixel-sharpness at 100% views which is easier to achieve with lower pixel-pitch cameras like the K100D. BTW, regarding "old", I'd venture a guess that 80% of K-5 users could do 80% of their shots with a K100D and not notice any loss of quality for the output formats they are using. I'm still using a K100D and only very rarely I wish I had the quicker AF or the better dynamic range of the K-5.

12-01-2012, 06:35 PM	#65
elliott Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: North Carolina Photos: Albums Posts: 1,720	Originally posted by Class A You have that backwards since most people would be impressed by pixel-sharpness at 100% views which is easier to achieve with lower pixel-pitch cameras like the K100D. BTW, regarding "old", I'd venture a guess that 80% of K-5 users could do 80% of their shots with a K100D and not notice any loss of quality for the output formats they are using. I'm still using a K100D and only very rarely I wish I had the quicker AF or the better dynamic range of the K-5. I just upgraded from a K100D to a K-5, but I really didn't do it for image quality alone and I'm still keeping the K100D around. I'm still learning the character of the K-5 right now, so I could probably still do better with my K100D than I can with the K-5 in some circumstances.

12-01-2012, 08:00 PM	#66
Transit Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Whanganui NZ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,624 Original Poster	Originally posted by Class A As others have pointed out, inflated ratings are a problem as well. If there is to be anything else but a straight average -- a distribution being the ideal -- I suggest a weighted mean, for instance, the average of all ratings without the bottom and top 2.5% ratings. I want a graph Mate...with colours and special stars ! Can the whole database cross reference ? That would be neat Pete ...in a country that never has Pentax sales

12-01-2012, 08:25 PM	#67
Transit Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Whanganui NZ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,624 Original Poster	Originally posted by Class A ...... I'm still using a K100D and only very rarely I wish I had the quicker AF or the better dynamic range of the K-5. but don't you also long for an iso button, iso over 800, AF tuning, more pixies or a prism ? Pentax should advance FF plans and put you out of yer misery

12-01-2012, 09:27 PM	#68
elliott Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: North Carolina Photos: Albums Posts: 1,720	Originally posted by Transit but don't you also long for an iso button, iso over 800, AF tuning, more pixies or a prism ? Don't forget ISO under 200 too.

12-01-2012, 09:52 PM	#69
Transit Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Whanganui NZ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,624 Original Poster	It's a long list elliott, I didn't want to put the boot in too much, he is a fellow Kiwi after all

12-02-2012, 12:28 AM	#70
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by Transit Pentax should advance FF plans and put you out of yer misery Amen to that!

12-02-2012, 07:43 AM	#71
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by Transit It's a long list elliott, I didn't want to put the boot in too much, he is a fellow Kiwi after all We would hate to have to bring in an Aussie to moderate things. (just kidding)

12-02-2012, 01:01 PM	#72
tim60 Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2011 Photos: Albums Posts: 8,745	Originally posted by Blue We would hate to have to bring in an Aussie to moderate things. (just kidding) I had the same cricket coach as Greg Chappell when I went to school. The economics teacher once said to Greg: "If you do not give up cricket and do more study you will never get anywhere in life." Cricket coach did not do me as much good. My last game was on 30/11/74. I cold moderate for you Kiwi's. Going to Auckland on thursday this week.

12-02-2012, 02:01 PM	#73
Transit Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Whanganui NZ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,624 Original Poster	Last thing we need is you blokes rummaging around over here Perhaps you could intercede with a FF appeal to Pentax instead

12-02-2012, 02:37 PM	#74
GlennG Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 824	Originally posted by Class A You have that backwards since most people would be impressed by pixel-sharpness at 100% views which is easier to achieve with lower pixel-pitch cameras like the K100D. BTW, regarding "old", I'd venture a guess that 80% of K-5 users could do 80% of their shots with a K100D and not notice any loss of quality for the output formats they are using. I'm still using a K100D and only very rarely I wish I had the quicker AF or the better dynamic range of the K-5. Great wisdom, Class A! Or, at least it would seem to me to be as such, since I've only my trusty K100dS and nothing else relevant to compare to it. AF speed, low light ISO, and higher DR are the primary reasons for me to upgrade, and not more MP. 6 MP, believe it or not, IS enough. Image quality is always important. Analagously, a few years ago, when I was looking in detail at HDTV's, IQ was dependent on, predominantly, contrast levels, color saturation, color accuracy, and, fourth on the list, was resolution. I was happy to know that for HDTV's, they knew what was important, and in what order. I've not heard any such ordering for IQ from DSLR's. I agree with Rockwell - you just don't need that many MP's. The thing I fear about upgrading (and I will, soon) is that I'll spend a lot of money and then find that I'll have mostly just larger files, but not necessarily better ones, for about 80% of the time. My $0.02.

12-02-2012, 02:55 PM	#75
Transit Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Whanganui NZ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,624 Original Poster	Originally posted by tim60 I had the same cricket coach as Greg Chappell when I went to school. The economics teacher once said to Greg: "If you do not give up cricket and do more study you will never get anywhere in life." Cricket coach did not do me as much good. My last game was on 30/11/74. I cold moderate for you Kiwi's. Going to Auckland on thursday this week. The words Chappell and moderate in the same post Just roll that sucker along the ground bro