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11-27-2012, 03:09 PM   #1
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Lens ratings skewed by clots

I wonder if the lens database scoring could include the dropping of the lowest number to get a more reasonable score ?
For instance, the DA14 has a new review from some clot who has given it a 1 !
What an idiot. The DA14 is a brilliant lens with great closeup possibilities.
Quite a few of the reviews have their average plunged by this effect.
Either someone with a faulty lens or a faulty user.

What do you say Adam ? Drop the lowest number !

11-27-2012, 03:12 PM   #2
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It would be better if it displayed the distribution. Maybe it is a love hate relationship.

Not defending anyone, but this is a user's rating system and every one is entitled to his opinion
11-27-2012, 03:16 PM   #3
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Same thing with the pricing. People try to cite the average prices in the reviews as the fair market value of the lens. When that average includes someone who found the lens at a pawnshop for $10.00 or talked a sweet little old lady out of her husbands photography collection for pennies on the dollar I don't think that should be included to indicate what the lens is worth.
11-27-2012, 03:21 PM   #4
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You have to actually read the entire review section and look at pictures. Just looking at the averages is nearly always misleading. It's like a baseball player who has just come up to the majors who hits .100 in one game and .900 in another (just go with it) and has an batting average of .500. Really? No, they're a wildly erratic hitter. Some of the lenses in the review section do have a love-hate relationship with users, with some wildly different ratings. It's like the K-01 - some called it a dog and got blasted for it, others think its brilliant. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

11-27-2012, 03:22 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Transit Quote
I wonder if the lens database scoring could include the dropping of the lowest number to get a more reasonable score ?
For instance, the DA14 has a new review from some clot who has given it a 1 !
What an idiot. The DA14 is a brilliant lens with great closeup possibilities.
Quite a few of the reviews have their average plunged by this effect.
Either someone with a faulty lens or a faulty user.

What do you say Adam ? Drop the lowest number !
That's why we added the sub-ratings, so people can take a look at the merits of each lens rather than a single number. And the more reviews there are, the less of an effect dissatisfied users will have- however, they fact that they exist does say something about the lens

Regarding pricing, we'll soon be able to replace the average values in the lens DB with those from the serial number DB, and that will give a much more accurate overview of the price trends.

Adam
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11-27-2012, 03:23 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
That's why we added the sub-ratings, so people can take a look at the merits of each lens rather than a single number. And the more reviews there are, the less of an effect dissatisfied users will have- however, they fact that they exist does say something about the lens

Regarding pricing, we'll soon be able to replace the average values in the lens DB with those from the serial number DB, and that will give a much more accurate overview of the price trends.
Good points. I notice that not many have offered what they paid for their lenses. Perhaps an email to registered users pointing out that you can go back and add that # to an existing registration?

-Robert
11-27-2012, 03:25 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Good points. I notice that not many have offered what they paid for their lenses. Perhaps an email to registered users pointing out that you can go back and add that # to an existing registration?
Already went out! We'll just need more time in order to get an accurate overview of lens pricing.

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11-27-2012, 03:27 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
You have to actually read the entire review section and look at pictures. Just looking at the averages is nearly always misleading.
You and I and a lot of others know that but when a new member with 5 posts uses the averages to haggle and acts put out when I point out that the last several lenses sold much higher it is just frustrating. End of Rant

11-27-2012, 03:30 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by littledrawe Quote
Same thing with the pricing. People try to cite the average prices in the reviews as the fair market value of the lens. When that average includes someone who found the lens at a pawnshop for $10.00 or talked a sweet little old lady out of her husbands photography collection for pennies on the dollar I don't think that should be included to indicate what the lens is worth.
but what about all the people who bought it new and paid full price? those would counter all those little old ladies.
11-27-2012, 03:33 PM   #10
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An issue I mentioned at dyxum in my minolta days - a poor lens copy can be sold on the forum and then get panned more than once while a great copy gets just one (high) review. Again this is something to factor in as a reader, not necessarily a fudge factor that the database should calculate for us.
11-27-2012, 03:34 PM   #11
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i responded to a similar situation i saw with a different lens. personally i completely ignore the "average rating" because i know it won't have any value at all. I rather wish that rating were eliminated completely so as not to mislead people into comparing two lenses and thinking the one with the higher rating may actually be a better lens.

I like Lowell's idea of showing the distribution, maybe as points along a line or something easy to instantly interpret.
11-27-2012, 03:49 PM   #12
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Some scoring systems ignore the top and bottom number. But the thing is, those reviews are great because of the text and sample photos, the actual numbers are often.. more based on emotional satisfaction than technical quality. They are good indicators of general satisfaction
11-27-2012, 04:00 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
Not defending anyone, but this is a user's rating system and every one is entitled to his opinion
True, and also people want to have relevant information about items that they may consider owning. I thought the "1" was rather remarkable, and there were several like that. OTOH I have given some lenses very high marks, and while I am surely happy with the lenses, I'm not sure the lens actually deserves a "9" (or similar) in an absolute sense, even on a value weighted basis.

QuoteOriginally posted by Transit Quote
What do you say Adam ? Drop the lowest number !
Sort of like Olympics judged scoring - omit the high and low and average the rest.
11-27-2012, 04:07 PM - 1 Like   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by jimr-pdx Quote
An issue I mentioned at dyxum in my minolta days - a poor lens copy can be sold on the forum and then get panned more than once while a great copy gets just one (high) review. Again this is something to factor in as a reader, not necessarily a fudge factor that the database should calculate for us.
But both problems (yours and the one Transit cites of a low score) also exist at the high end of the scale. People get a good copy, rate it at 10, then later sell it with the new buyers repeating the rating. I've seen lenses sold more than once here. Also, many people rate a lens right after they get it and the new toy may cloud their judgement, not to mention problems may not show up right away.

Another point not mentioned is many times, a person will be vocal complaining about something they don't like, while remaining quite about something that is satisfactory or even stellar. Nor are people always fair in their ratings. I've seen reviews on Amazon where someone gives something a 1 rating that arrived dead in the box, with no word on whether the replacement was satisfactory or not.

For those reasons, no rating system is perfect and people should learn to read them with those possibilities in mind.
11-27-2012, 04:09 PM   #15
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I'm particularly amused by the reviews that basically say "this lens is completely mediocre in all aspects, but I only paid ten bucks for it, so it's a 10", or "I only shoot portraits and this is an ultra-wide-angle, so it's a 4". Sure, all reviews are subjective, but shouldn't you at least try to be objective?

I also like the distribution idea - I've depended on that for computer parts from Newegg - it gives me an idea if there's an actual problem or just a few soreheads. I also like how they have the reviewer rate their own tech level. Usually, if they are willing to be a little self-critical and rate themselves 4 out of 5, they're more likely to know what they are talking about than if they rate themselves 5/5.
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