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12-03-2012, 08:12 PM   #151
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Pentax, repeal your UPP. You make good lenses, but they are not better than the competition which also offers a wider array of lenses. How then does the UPP increase your sales???

12-03-2012, 08:14 PM   #152
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Count me in. I've been looking at some primes for a while, but the prices have kept me away.
12-03-2012, 08:15 PM   #153
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I won't and don't buy Pentax lens at current prices. I will never buy a SDM lens.

Forced selling at retail is a poor move given the economy. Let shops compete, the leanest, best with customers, wins.

SDM is still there, in people minds.

Pentax will have to increase customers first, profits latter. The reason customers first is they have a bad reputation with many and need to make themselves into a good brand and good system, after what they did with SDM, QC, and price hikes.

Last edited by jamesm007; 12-04-2012 at 06:02 AM.
12-03-2012, 08:15 PM   #154
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Count me in also.

12-03-2012, 08:16 PM   #155
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Yea, verily. And while you're at it, Pentax, maybe it's time to catch up to the times and make a full-frame...
12-03-2012, 08:17 PM - 1 Like   #156
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Fixed pricing realities

Let's face it. We love our cameras and equipment. We are like an envoy on behalf of Pentax's extensive legacy in the arena of photography. However, Pentax implementing "Apple-like" policies regarding pricing has done exactly what? Pentax doesn't own a huge share of the market. It's a fraction whose growth is impaired by the high cost of operating the camera.

You've seen it in the forums. You've seen it in newcomers to the Pentax brand. They are looking elsewhere - to its primary competitors - for extensive deals on glass for their specific bodies. Every amateur, novice, and pro photographer know that while a body is certainly good, the glass is 1) where pictures come to life 2) where even a 10 year old body can get a real shot in the arm for quality 3) the biggest profit maker for a company. Pentax has a simple choice to make. Cater to enthusiasts who don't mind shirking the "Canikon" fan-base or cater to the masses as people start to take Pentax very seriously in their selection as their go-to choice for cameras and glass on their next excursion.

When selecting the K-5, my Canon wielding friends asked "why?" considering the glass was so much more expensive. I have a lot of M lenses I use now with my K-5. But what about everyone else? A thousand dollar glass collection for Pentax is 1/3 or 1/2 less lenses than its competition. In the end, Pentax must admit that without a full-frame offering, it will always be looked at as a premium APS-C offering. Do professionals want to dump their money in a few pieces of glass when they have a far more extensive collection elsewhere? We, Pentax owners, understand the quality and features of the new DSLR bodies. However, can one argue that the premium glass costing 3X the money over the competition is three times better? No - the reviews don't hold up to that argument.

Canon and Nikon created a line of cameras that droop to the cheapest of beginners and yet sell bodies for thousands of dollars. They understand that getting more cameras to the masses, more glass to the masses, more offerings to their customers has created not only a fan-base but a loyal following. This formula works for Canon and Nikon. Why won't Pentax see this? Don't worry about the B&M stores. Free market has always taken care of the pricing situation - unfortunately, as we've all found out, it's hard to get people to choose anything BUT Canon and Nikon.

My opinion is this -

DA lenses should be on par or slightly cheaper than the competition. People who realize the quality of the limited and star lenses will step up to the plate - but if the prices are more in line with the competition's higher end offerings, wouldn't the prolific spread of lenses also come to the Pentax side? This is fairly common sense. Pentax, empower your envoys - us, the customers - to show off your prowess and make it an affordable option so that people can see past the Canikon veil and take advantage of your fantastic line of bodies and glass.

Yea, verily - amen.
12-03-2012, 08:20 PM   #157
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As a non-pro (e.g. I don't make money doing photography), price is always important. I understand that Pentax needs to make money and with lower volume often comes higher prices. If dropping prices on their current lineup proves challenging, I hope Pentax produces more high quality plastic frame lenses such as the DA 35mm. Sure some people balk at plastic, but in the end the optical quality speaks for itself. I welcome more affordable plastic lenses that retain Pentax's high quality optics.
12-03-2012, 08:21 PM   #158
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Count me in!

12-03-2012, 08:22 PM   #159
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count me in too!

pls lower lens prices...
12-03-2012, 08:23 PM   #160
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
It's time to put the online MSRP thing to an end. Back in April, through a "Unilateral Pricing Policy" (UPP), Pentax USA forced online retailers to start selling Pentax lenses at full MSRP rather than the then-lower MAP prices. Refer to the article below for an overview of the price jumps. Some lenses nearly doubled in price!

Brutal Pentax Lens Price Increase: 15-90% - Pentax Camera News & Rumors -

Since this change, online sales of Pentax lenses have virtually come to a standstill because of the high, artificially-inflated prices. I'm sure you guys can testify to that, especially if you opted to use the Marketplace or get Sigma lenses rather than new Pentax ones. Just because the DA* 16-50mm has an MSRP of $1500 doesn't mean that anyone in the right mind will buy a used copy at the new high price: in fact, used Pentax lens prices are generally lower than the old MAP prices.

All of a sudden, this Black Friday weekend, the UPP restriction was temporarily lifted, and Pentax lens prices fell sharply for a few days (but some were still higher than the old prices). Here's a little insight into what gear really started moving:

In just one day, well over 100 new Pentax lenses were sold to PF members alone. That's more that the total number sold to PF members after the introduction of the UPP but before Black Friday.

So what good is this UPP thing doing? None at all. When it originally came about, Ned Bunnell, former President of Pentax USA, blogged about the UPP, saying that the main goal of the policy was to protect smaller brick-and-mortar stores so that they don't have to compete with really low online prices. Well, that's great and all, but you can count on your fingers how many such stores there are. And the funny thing is that if you walk into any one of these stores, you'll see the old prices. The same applies if you call B&H or Adorama: you'll generally get the old prices as long as you mention it (and if you walk in to the store, there's no question about it) On top of all this, rumors have it the Pentax USA distributor requires retailers to place large orders, which causes smaller stores to lose interest in carrying the brand, given the tiny demand that there is for Pentax to begin with.

The UPP isn't going to change the fact that the largest audience for Pentax lenses is found online, because of the fact that Pentax users are few and far between. This means that the new policy has done nothing but prevented users otherwise interested in Pentax lenses from buying them.

Above: the Pentax DA* 50-135mm is the star of the UPP, jumping from $749 to $1599

I was on the phone with B&H again today, and after I mentioned the recent Adorama deals, their buyer agreed to drop the price of the 15mm limited to $539 when in cart. B&H said that if this deal ends up getting more copies of the lens sold, they will do their best to post similar deals in the future, even if Pentax doesn't get rid of the UPP. Lowering prices after adding to cart, without advertising them, is a gray area: Pentax can't really say that it's a violation of the UPP, but they certainly won't be happy about it. B&H admitted that it was nice to see some stock get cleared out during Black Friday, so hopefully they'll be giving Pentax stuff a little bit more attention from now on.

While I'm sure B&H will be the first to offer the best online Pentax lens prices, they alone won't be able to change the way things work, because Pentax lenses and cameras are dwarfed by all other DSLR brands.

Almost all other camera brands have unilateral pricing policies. The difference, however, is that in-store prices are the same as online prices, and that no lenses doubled in price from one day to the next. This keeps prices constant across the board and successfully protects the market, unlike the Pentax policy, which one might say was late to the game. So, Pentax, consider this a petition on behalf of our entire community asking you to rethink your online marketing strategy.

If the UPP has prevented or discouraged you from buying a Pentax lens, or even forced you to switch brands, and if you want prices to go back to normal, sign the petition by replying to this thread. Let's make this the biggest thread in the whole lens forum: hopefully it'll send a strong message!

And if you want, I can go on with more reasons for why the UPP is bad:
  • Competitors have similarly-priced full-frame glass
  • Sigma has cheaper lenses and also offers premium lenses
  • People will avoid new lenses in favor of cheap manual lenses
As much as I hate to do it, I'd like to ask that the replies be limited to members based in the US, or who regularly import Pentax lenses from US online retailers.
Being a new Pentax K30 owner, I would definitely appreciate lower prices on Pentax lenses.
12-03-2012, 08:23 PM   #161
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QuoteOriginally posted by twilhelm Quote
I'm in on this one. I haven't purchased a new Pentax lens since the UPP went into effect. Just waiting for a little sanity with the pricing policy.
I feel the same way.
12-03-2012, 08:27 PM   #162
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Can't Afford To Spend

It's just too expensive to contemplate. I'm not bound to Pentax. I am free to move and should it become too painful to stay, I will.
12-03-2012, 08:27 PM   #163
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I agree with lowering prices.
12-03-2012, 08:32 PM   #164
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The main reason I picked Pentax originally when I started shooting with DSLRs was their lower prices. Pentax offered a better value than other brands, but with those ridiculous price increases that is no longer true. It has made me take a fresh look at alternatives. I hope that Pentax learns from the Black Friday sales that pricing is an issue. I bought a 15mm Limited that I would never have bought at MSRP and bought a K-01 a couple weeks earlier when the price dropped.
12-03-2012, 08:34 PM   #165
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The biggest problem with this policy is that not all of us live near a camera store.
I have a 45 drive to the 2 closest camera stores or a Best Buy.
None of these 3 stores carry Pentax lenses.
Who is that protecting?
Not me the consumer or the small businesses that don't carry the lenses or DSLR cameras for that matter.
I will continue to buy new 3rd party or used Pentax lenses until I can buy them new at a reasonable price.

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