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12-04-2012, 10:15 PM   #391
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QuoteOriginally posted by Transit Quote
Just like printers, take a dive on the hardware then clean up on ink sales
Amen brother! Wish I'd said that!

12-04-2012, 10:36 PM   #392
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QuoteOriginally posted by MattDivine Quote
Dear Pentax,
I have never found a Pentax lens that I wanted in a local photo shop, regardless of price. They either have low-end Pentax glass or in most cases, none at all. Therefore, I have only purchased glass online. If prices were cheaper, we would all buy more lenses, thus making us happier, and locking us in to the Pentax eco-system. We all would win.
I couldn't agree more. I haven't even seen a Pentax lens, or body for that matter, in a brick and mortar store - except for a pawn shop - since around 1986. That makes it impossible for me to believe that Pentax has any warm and fuzzy feelings for brick and mortar stores. They build great products, but need to start working on building trust, and in the process, rebuilding the Pentax community.
12-04-2012, 11:36 PM   #393
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Pentax has shot itself in the FOOT, bigtime!

I'm certainly in on this! When I finally got back into the SLR market in July 2011 (after buying high-end megazooms since 2004), I was looking at probably Canon, since my last two megazoom cameras had been Canon and I'd bought a 430DXII flash to use with them, as it would sync with them. I'd been a Pentax shooter in the 80s and 90s, but it looked like Canon or Nikon (I'd also been reading books, mostly by pros who shoot Nikon, and thus push THAT system), so I was looking at both. Almost as a lark, I decided to see what Pentax was offering, and it was only because I discovered I could use the only remaining Pentax A lens I had (an AF 135 F 2.8 that was always TACK SHARP) that I began to look seriously at the K-5. At the time, the SELLING price of the DA*16-50 was high, but "reasonable" for a flat F2.8 lens, so I got it with that (and got the "kit" lens as a backup -- actually I bought the body by itself and got the WR "kit" lens separately because I didn't trust a "kit" to include the WR version). Before too long I had the 100 DAF Macro -- wonderful lens, except it HUNTS LIKE CRAZY (at least on the K-5, still the only DSLR I own) and the 55-30... And then stuck my neck out on interest-free credit to get the Sigma "Bigma." Then I sort of let things "settle" for a few months...

I had NO IDEA I was buying the Pentax-brand lenses at a big discount off MSRP. THEN I got involved in the forums again last summer and shortly discovered prices seemed much higher -- especially on the DA* lenses. I primarily post at the Pentax forum at Digital Review, and shortly was informed of the April 1 UPP announcement. Then I started actively following prices, watching them wax and wane. I decided the only other DA* lenses I actually cared about having were the 300 F4 (which I got when it temporarily dropped back down to about $1,100) and the DA*55 F1.4, which I've yet to see drop down. Back in the 90s I had the DA 50 F 1.4. Nice lens, but it's not WR, and a bit long in the tooth (much of my kit got stolen out of my car one night during a smash-and-grab, including that lens). I also wanted a super-wide-angle, maybe even fish-eye. After much debate on this, I decided to go the cheap way, rather than pay either Pentax's OR Sigma's prices and got the Rokinon F3.5 8mm Fisheye manual focus (only manual focus lens I've bought since the early 90s). It's little bother, though. Focus is soooo easy at that focal level it's a no brainer. I decided to do this after a poster on that forum who shoots professionally in Southeast Asia posted a bunch of pics he shot with it and the K-30, I think.

But yeah, I still want the DA*55, and I MIGHT even be interested in the 55-135 IF the price were right (I have that range covered, so maybe not -- a really good 18-270, which seems to be the growing trend may just beat it, as F2.8 isn't what it used to be, although I'm certain the DA* lens must be sharper). I see NO SENSE in acquiring the DA* F2.8 200. One can get a Tamron 70-200 F2.8 for less, only without the WR. And a 60-250 F4??? Why????? I have a 300 F4 and a 55-300 F4-5.8 (which is F4 up to about 180mm). Those two lenses make the 60-250 practically superflous to anyone who's not flush with cash

All the same, Pentax has LOST ITS FREAKIN' MIND!!! Like it or not, Pentax is NOT Canon or Nikon. Pentax CANNOT dictate the market the way Canon and/or Nikon might. Even assuming Canon and/or Nikon went along with Pentax on the UPP deal, it was to THEIR competitive advantage against Pentax. Pentax can say they did this because their "brick-and-mortar" retailers were complaining nobody was buying from them because they were undersold online. Well welcome to the age of the internet! Also, bear in mind that if you go to Pentax's site and do a search for PHYSICAL locations, you can't find a total of even 100 STORES NATIONWIDE in America that still carry Pentax IN THEIR STORES...

Yeah, you can get most Pentax products from Best Buy... ONLINE ONLY (and ALWAYS at UPP only). But here where I live in Upstate South Carolina, I did a search and I approximated the NEAREST B&M store to me was roughly 500 miles away. Please note that within that 500 mile radius is ATLANTA, CHARLOTTE -- in fact ALL OF GEORGIA, SOUTH CAROLINA, NORTH CAROLINA, TENNESSEE, HALF OF FLORIDA, MOST OF ALABAMA AND VIRGINIA AND KENTUCKY,etc.... The ONLY retail locations I found (outside New York City -- about 750 miles away) east of the Mississippi, were a couple of small chain stores somewhere in Ohio. I drove my mom to see an old friend in Ohio last year, and trust me, it's almost 500 miles JUST to Cincinatti from where I live, which is the STATE LINE. And I got the impression those stores were WAYYYY north of there. A few in Idaho. A furniture mart in NEBRASKA! A small chain (Samy's) in California. Is Pentax REALLY willing to sacrifice its ENTIRE American customer base to satisfy a few B&M stores that are scattered so widely you can barely find them on a map?!?!?

Furthermore, when I bought my K-5 in 1985, and later my PZ1 circa '93, there were two camera stores here in town and BOTH carried Pentax. Big Box stores put one of those out of business. Pentax insisting the other maintain at least $50,000 of inventory (among other things), caused the other one to tell them to F*** Off! I have little wonder that's why MANY/MOST local camera stores no longer carry Pentax... Poor relations with their dealers in the 90s. Now it appears they're adding idiotic on top of stupid.

I REALLY have to say that at $699 WITH a kit lens for a 24 MP Nikon D3200, it's been QUITE TEMPTING the past few weeks to go ahead and get one and hedge my bets. I still love A LOT of things about Pentax. I've long been a fan of features such as hyper-manual. But if after 2 years all they could do with the K-5 was put a little chrome on it and take the muffler off, while raising prices on lenses that have been around for years (and have been known to have problems with their focusing motors, anyway), I'm having to wonder if maybe I really shouldn't start hedging my bets, and I'm Pentax all the way.
Jeff Hayes
Spartanburg, SC

Last edited by JeffAHayes; 12-05-2012 at 02:19 PM. Reason: Change "Tokina" to "Tamron"
12-04-2012, 11:46 PM   #394
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Ned implied UPP was put into place as a pre-condition for securing an agreement with a major retailer with red logo (cough** Target **cough) that would put interchangable lens cameras on their store shelves.

I have yet to see any evidence that has happened. Target's on-line store in fact shows any and all Pentax cameras except point and shoot as "Not available in stores."

Hopefully the new management will see the painfully obvious and admit the policy has hurt on-line stores, consumers, and ultimately Pentax itself, and has not helped brick and morter stores either.

12-05-2012, 05:46 AM   #395
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+ 1 Count me in.
12-05-2012, 07:10 AM   #396
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Outrageous!!! Include me in as signing this petition!

Last edited by Tripps; 12-07-2012 at 09:14 AM. Reason: never meant to quote/spelling correction
12-05-2012, 07:51 AM   #397
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Lower prices? I'm in for that.
12-05-2012, 08:04 AM   #398
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Petition

I want the crazy prices of Pentax lens go back to normal. If the increase continues I am definitely switching camera brands.

Haley Johnston

12-05-2012, 08:43 AM   #399
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I am in. I've purchased alot of new Pentax lenses in the past and there are several DA* lenses I would like to round out my collection. I have absolutely no intention of purchasing these lenses new at the current prices. Chances are I will get them used at a reasonable price form someone who switched brands due to Pentax's absurdly high lens prices!

Pentax, get a clue!!
12-05-2012, 08:49 AM   #400
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+ 1

Well, count me in, too. I'm just not convinced that Pentax/Ricoh will listen any better than Hoya, Asahi/Pentax or Honeywell, for that matter.
I live in the same city as the North American H.Q. and until recently, couldn't even SEE a live Pentax DSLR or lens. Now they have a handful of lenses and bodies in one photo store.
A large photo-chain company, formally Wolf, now Mike's Camera, has a downtown store 2 blocks from Pentax H.Q. Guess what? Mike's doesn't carry Pentax.
So, I remain skeptical but hopeful.
Ron
12-05-2012, 09:24 AM   #401
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Count me in too

I am one of the fortunate ones to pick up a Pentax DA* 50-135mm at the Black Friday price. Personally it was not even a consideration at the higher price so it just goes to show that at least in one case a lens was sold that otherwise would not because of the price.

There are more lenses to buy, but not at the current Pentax prices.
12-05-2012, 10:45 AM   #402
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
It's time to put the online MSRP thing to an end. Back in April, through a "Unilateral Pricing Policy" (UPP), Pentax USA forced online retailers to start selling Pentax lenses at full MSRP rather than the then-lower MAP prices. Refer to the article below for an overview of the price jumps. Some lenses nearly doubled in price!

Brutal Pentax Lens Price Increase: 15-90% - Pentax Camera News & Rumors - PentaxForums.com

Since this change, online sales of Pentax lenses have virtually come to a standstill because of the high, artificially-inflated prices. I'm sure you guys can testify to that, especially if you opted to use the Marketplace or get Sigma lenses rather than new Pentax ones. Just because the DA* 16-50mm has an MSRP of $1500 doesn't mean that anyone in the right mind will buy a used copy at the new high price: in fact, used Pentax lens prices are generally lower than the old MAP prices.

All of a sudden, this Black Friday weekend, the UPP restriction was temporarily lifted, and Pentax lens prices fell sharply for a few days (but some were still higher than the old prices). Here's a little insight into what gear really started moving:



In just one day, well over 100 new Pentax lenses were sold to PF members alone. That's more that the total number sold to PF members after the introduction of the UPP but before Black Friday.

So what good is this UPP thing doing? None at all. When it originally came about, Ned Bunnell, former President of Pentax USA, blogged about the UPP, saying that the main goal of the policy was to protect smaller brick-and-mortar stores so that they don't have to compete with really low online prices. Well, that's great and all, but you can count on your fingers how many such stores there are. And the funny thing is that if you walk into any one of these stores, you'll see the old prices. The same applies if you call B&H or Adorama: you'll generally get the old prices as long as you mention it (and if you walk in to the store, there's no question about it) On top of all this, rumors have it the Pentax USA distributor requires retailers to place large orders, which causes smaller stores to lose interest in carrying the brand, given the tiny demand that there is for Pentax to begin with.

The UPP isn't going to change the fact that the largest audience for Pentax lenses is found online, because of the fact that Pentax users are few and far between. This means that the new policy has done nothing but prevented users otherwise interested in Pentax lenses from buying them.


Above: the Pentax DA* 50-135mm is the star of the UPP, jumping from $749 to $1599

I was on the phone with B&H again today, and after I mentioned the recent Adorama deals, their buyer agreed to drop the price of the 15mm limited to $539 when in cart. B&H said that if this deal ends up getting more copies of the lens sold, they will do their best to post similar deals in the future, even if Pentax doesn't get rid of the UPP. Lowering prices after adding to cart, without advertising them, is a gray area: Pentax can't really say that it's a violation of the UPP, but they certainly won't be happy about it. B&H admitted that it was nice to see some stock get cleared out during Black Friday, so hopefully they'll be giving Pentax stuff a little bit more attention from now on.

While I'm sure B&H will be the first to offer the best online Pentax lens prices, they alone won't be able to change the way things work, because Pentax lenses and cameras are dwarfed by all other DSLR brands.

Almost all other camera brands have unilateral pricing policies. The difference, however, is that in-store prices are the same as online prices, and that no lenses doubled in price from one day to the next. This keeps prices constant across the board and successfully protects the market, unlike the Pentax policy, which one might say was late to the game. So, Pentax, consider this a petition on behalf of our entire community asking you to rethink your online marketing strategy.

If the UPP has prevented or discouraged you from buying a Pentax lens, or even forced you to switch brands, and if you want prices to go back to normal, sign the petition by replying to this thread. Let's make this the biggest thread in the whole lens forum: hopefully it'll send a strong message!


And if you want, I can go on with more reasons for why the UPP is bad:
  • Competitors have similarly-priced full-frame glass
  • Sigma has cheaper lenses and also offers premium lenses
  • People will avoid new lenses in favor of cheap manual lenses
As much as I hate to do it, I'd like to ask that the replies be limited to members based in the US, or who regularly import Pentax lenses from US online retailers.
I concur. Given Pentax's market position in the US Market, it should seek to make its pricing more competitive.
12-05-2012, 10:49 AM   #403
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
It's time to put the online MSRP thing to an end. Back in April, through a "Unilateral Pricing Policy" (UPP), Pentax USA forced online retailers to start selling Pentax lenses at full MSRP rather than the then-lower MAP prices. Refer to the article below for an overview of the price jumps. Some lenses nearly doubled in price!

Brutal Pentax Lens Price Increase: 15-90% - Pentax Camera News & Rumors - PentaxForums.com

Since this change, online sales of Pentax lenses have virtually come to a standstill because of the high, artificially-inflated prices. I'm sure you guys can testify to that, especially if you opted to use the Marketplace or get Sigma lenses rather than new Pentax ones. Just because the DA* 16-50mm has an MSRP of $1500 doesn't mean that anyone in the right mind will buy a used copy at the new high price: in fact, used Pentax lens prices are generally lower than the old MAP prices.

All of a sudden, this Black Friday weekend, the UPP restriction was temporarily lifted, and Pentax lens prices fell sharply for a few days (but some were still higher than the old prices). Here's a little insight into what gear really started moving:



In just one day, well over 100 new Pentax lenses were sold to PF members alone. That's more that the total number sold to PF members after the introduction of the UPP but before Black Friday.

So what good is this UPP thing doing? None at all. When it originally came about, Ned Bunnell, former President of Pentax USA, blogged about the UPP, saying that the main goal of the policy was to protect smaller brick-and-mortar stores so that they don't have to compete with really low online prices. Well, that's great and all, but you can count on your fingers how many such stores there are. And the funny thing is that if you walk into any one of these stores, you'll see the old prices. The same applies if you call B&H or Adorama: you'll generally get the old prices as long as you mention it (and if you walk in to the store, there's no question about it) On top of all this, rumors have it the Pentax USA distributor requires retailers to place large orders, which causes smaller stores to lose interest in carrying the brand, given the tiny demand that there is for Pentax to begin with.

The UPP isn't going to change the fact that the largest audience for Pentax lenses is found online, because of the fact that Pentax users are few and far between. This means that the new policy has done nothing but prevented users otherwise interested in Pentax lenses from buying them.


Above: the Pentax DA* 50-135mm is the star of the UPP, jumping from $749 to $1599

I was on the phone with B&H again today, and after I mentioned the recent Adorama deals, their buyer agreed to drop the price of the 15mm limited to $539 when in cart. B&H said that if this deal ends up getting more copies of the lens sold, they will do their best to post similar deals in the future, even if Pentax doesn't get rid of the UPP. Lowering prices after adding to cart, without advertising them, is a gray area: Pentax can't really say that it's a violation of the UPP, but they certainly won't be happy about it. B&H admitted that it was nice to see some stock get cleared out during Black Friday, so hopefully they'll be giving Pentax stuff a little bit more attention from now on.

While I'm sure B&H will be the first to offer the best online Pentax lens prices, they alone won't be able to change the way things work, because Pentax lenses and cameras are dwarfed by all other DSLR brands.

Almost all other camera brands have unilateral pricing policies. The difference, however, is that in-store prices are the same as online prices, and that no lenses doubled in price from one day to the next. This keeps prices constant across the board and successfully protects the market, unlike the Pentax policy, which one might say was late to the game. So, Pentax, consider this a petition on behalf of our entire community asking you to rethink your online marketing strategy.

If the UPP has prevented or discouraged you from buying a Pentax lens, or even forced you to switch brands, and if you want prices to go back to normal, sign the petition by replying to this thread. Let's make this the biggest thread in the whole lens forum: hopefully it'll send a strong message!


And if you want, I can go on with more reasons for why the UPP is bad:
  • Competitors have similarly-priced full-frame glass
  • Sigma has cheaper lenses and also offers premium lenses
  • People will avoid new lenses in favor of cheap manual lenses
As much as I hate to do it, I'd like to ask that the replies be limited to members based in the US, or who regularly import Pentax lenses from US online retailers.
If prices don't go down soon I am planning on selling my Pentax gear and buying Cannon.
12-05-2012, 11:27 AM   #404
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+1. Count me in.
12-05-2012, 12:22 PM   #405
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One more resounding YES!!!
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