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12-20-2012, 04:52 AM   #496
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
It's time to put the online MSRP thing to an end. Back in April, through a "Unilateral Pricing Policy" (UPP), Pentax USA forced online retailers to start selling Pentax lenses at full MSRP rather than the then-lower MAP prices. Refer to the article below for an overview of the price jumps. Some lenses nearly doubled in price!

Brutal Pentax Lens Price Increase: 15-90% - Pentax Camera News & Rumors - PentaxForums.com

Since this change, online sales of Pentax lenses have virtually come to a standstill because of the high, artificially-inflated prices. I'm sure you guys can testify to that, especially if you opted to use the Marketplace or get Sigma lenses rather than new Pentax ones. Just because the DA* 16-50mm has an MSRP of $1500 doesn't mean that anyone in the right mind will buy a used copy at the new high price: in fact, used Pentax lens prices are generally lower than the old MAP prices.

All of a sudden, this Black Friday weekend, the UPP restriction was temporarily lifted, and Pentax lens prices fell sharply for a few days (but some were still higher than the old prices). Here's a little insight into what gear really started moving:



In just one day, well over 100 new Pentax lenses were sold to PF members alone. That's more that the total number sold to PF members after the introduction of the UPP but before Black Friday.

So what good is this UPP thing doing? None at all. When it originally came about, Ned Bunnell, former President of Pentax USA, blogged about the UPP, saying that the main goal of the policy was to protect smaller brick-and-mortar stores so that they don't have to compete with really low online prices. Well, that's great and all, but you can count on your fingers how many such stores there are. And the funny thing is that if you walk into any one of these stores, you'll see the old prices. The same applies if you call B&H or Adorama: you'll generally get the old prices as long as you mention it (and if you walk in to the store, there's no question about it) On top of all this, rumors have it the Pentax USA distributor requires retailers to place large orders, which causes smaller stores to lose interest in carrying the brand, given the tiny demand that there is for Pentax to begin with.

The UPP isn't going to change the fact that the largest audience for Pentax lenses is found online, because of the fact that Pentax users are few and far between. This means that the new policy has done nothing but prevented users otherwise interested in Pentax lenses from buying them.


Above: the Pentax DA* 50-135mm is the star of the UPP, jumping from $749 to $1599

I was on the phone with B&H again today, and after I mentioned the recent Adorama deals, their buyer agreed to drop the price of the 15mm limited to $539 when in cart. B&H said that if this deal ends up getting more copies of the lens sold, they will do their best to post similar deals in the future, even if Pentax doesn't get rid of the UPP. Lowering prices after adding to cart, without advertising them, is a gray area: Pentax can't really say that it's a violation of the UPP, but they certainly won't be happy about it. B&H admitted that it was nice to see some stock get cleared out during Black Friday, so hopefully they'll be giving Pentax stuff a little bit more attention from now on.

While I'm sure B&H will be the first to offer the best online Pentax lens prices, they alone won't be able to change the way things work, because Pentax lenses and cameras are dwarfed by all other DSLR brands.

Almost all other camera brands have unilateral pricing policies. The difference, however, is that in-store prices are the same as online prices, and that no lenses doubled in price from one day to the next. This keeps prices constant across the board and successfully protects the market, unlike the Pentax policy, which one might say was late to the game. So, Pentax, consider this a petition on behalf of our entire community asking you to rethink your online marketing strategy.

If the UPP has prevented or discouraged you from buying a Pentax lens, or even forced you to switch brands, and if you want prices to go back to normal, sign the petition by replying to this thread. Let's make this the biggest thread in the whole lens forum: hopefully it'll send a strong message!


And if you want, I can go on with more reasons for why the UPP is bad:
  • Competitors have similarly-priced full-frame glass
  • Sigma has cheaper lenses and also offers premium lenses
  • People will avoid new lenses in favor of cheap manual lenses
As much as I hate to do it, I'd like to ask that the replies be limited to members based in the US, or who regularly import Pentax lenses from US online retailers.
I'm from Canada but my main vendor is B&H since shipping is actually cheaper from New York than from Canadian dealers. The margins must have been there before UPP so let's get back to reality or I may be forced to jump after close to 40 years of loyalty.

12-20-2012, 06:18 AM   #497
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I sign this petition.
12-20-2012, 06:44 AM   #498
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It may be small beans compared to buying a Limited or DA* lens, but I was going to buy the DA35mm new. I typically buy used (Marketplace FTW), but I was going to treat myself. I waited until the fall because I have a trip coming up, but when I saw the prices had jumped, I held off, and I popped for a different used lens instead for this trip.

Sign me up.
12-20-2012, 09:13 AM   #499
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I also sign this petition. The prices have gone out of control especially here in the Great White North

12-20-2012, 04:13 PM   #500
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+1 I agree with the petition
12-21-2012, 04:39 PM   #501
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Signed
12-29-2012, 10:03 AM   #502
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
It's time to put the online MSRP thing to an end. Back in April, through a "Unilateral Pricing Policy" (UPP), Pentax USA forced online retailers to start selling Pentax lenses at full MSRP rather than the then-lower MAP prices. Refer to the article below for an overview of the price jumps. Some lenses nearly doubled in price!

Brutal Pentax Lens Price Increase: 15-90% - Pentax Camera News & Rumors - PentaxForums.com

Since this change, online sales of Pentax lenses have virtually come to a standstill because of the high, artificially-inflated prices. I'm sure you guys can testify to that, especially if you opted to use the Marketplace or get Sigma lenses rather than new Pentax ones. Just because the DA* 16-50mm has an MSRP of $1500 doesn't mean that anyone in the right mind will buy a used copy at the new high price: in fact, used Pentax lens prices are generally lower than the old MAP prices.

All of a sudden, this Black Friday weekend, the UPP restriction was temporarily lifted, and Pentax lens prices fell sharply for a few days (but some were still higher than the old prices). Here's a little insight into what gear really started moving:



In just one day, well over 100 new Pentax lenses were sold to PF members alone. That's more that the total number sold to PF members after the introduction of the UPP but before Black Friday.

So what good is this UPP thing doing? None at all. When it originally came about, Ned Bunnell, former President of Pentax USA, blogged about the UPP, saying that the main goal of the policy was to protect smaller brick-and-mortar stores so that they don't have to compete with really low online prices. Well, that's great and all, but you can count on your fingers how many such stores there are. And the funny thing is that if you walk into any one of these stores, you'll see the old prices. The same applies if you call B&H or Adorama: you'll generally get the old prices as long as you mention it (and if you walk in to the store, there's no question about it) On top of all this, rumors have it the Pentax USA distributor requires retailers to place large orders, which causes smaller stores to lose interest in carrying the brand, given the tiny demand that there is for Pentax to begin with.

The UPP isn't going to change the fact that the largest audience for Pentax lenses is found online, because of the fact that Pentax users are few and far between. This means that the new policy has done nothing but prevented users otherwise interested in Pentax lenses from buying them.


Above: the Pentax DA* 50-135mm is the star of the UPP, jumping from $749 to $1599

I was on the phone with B&H again today, and after I mentioned the recent Adorama deals, their buyer agreed to drop the price of the 15mm limited to $539 when in cart. B&H said that if this deal ends up getting more copies of the lens sold, they will do their best to post similar deals in the future, even if Pentax doesn't get rid of the UPP. Lowering prices after adding to cart, without advertising them, is a gray area: Pentax can't really say that it's a violation of the UPP, but they certainly won't be happy about it. B&H admitted that it was nice to see some stock get cleared out during Black Friday, so hopefully they'll be giving Pentax stuff a little bit more attention from now on.

While I'm sure B&H will be the first to offer the best online Pentax lens prices, they alone won't be able to change the way things work, because Pentax lenses and cameras are dwarfed by all other DSLR brands.

Almost all other camera brands have unilateral pricing policies. The difference, however, is that in-store prices are the same as online prices, and that no lenses doubled in price from one day to the next. This keeps prices constant across the board and successfully protects the market, unlike the Pentax policy, which one might say was late to the game. So, Pentax, consider this a petition on behalf of our entire community asking you to rethink your online marketing strategy.

If the UPP has prevented or discouraged you from buying a Pentax lens, or even forced you to switch brands, and if you want prices to go back to normal, sign the petition by replying to this thread. Let's make this the biggest thread in the whole lens forum: hopefully it'll send a strong message!


And if you want, I can go on with more reasons for why the UPP is bad:
  • Competitors have similarly-priced full-frame glass
  • Sigma has cheaper lenses and also offers premium lenses
  • People will avoid new lenses in favor of cheap manual lenses
As much as I hate to do it, I'd like to ask that the replies be limited to members based in the US, or who regularly import Pentax lenses from US online retailers.
Please allow lower prices. I have a bag full of older Pentax lenses but modern versions are not worth the price compared to better alternatives.
12-29-2012, 10:36 AM   #503
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Add me to this as well. I'm wanting a DA-15mm F4.0, but I'll either watch for a used one, or wait till prices drop. (if they do)

12-31-2012, 10:20 PM   #504
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Yeah, I'm signing this too. If they ever expect to convert me to the brand, they need to do something to reign in these ridiculous prices!

--Ron
12-31-2012, 10:57 PM   #505
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The lens prices are just insane. It makes absolutely no sense to raise the prices - in order to provide the retailers a larger profit margin, if the end users, the customers are not and will not purchase the products. That is exactly what is occurring. Pentax is essentially committing a slow suicide (at least here within the US) through this pricing policy. The retailers are not following them. Who gets hurt in the end? 1) Pentax by not selling the lenses and 2) the end customer - we the photographers. So, Pentax - do not do stupid.

In the last 18 months, I have purchased only 1 new modern lens - the Sigma 8-16. Everything else has been older legacy glass - SMC M, Contax Carl Zeiss, Carl Zeiss and Leica R. I am tired of the lens game - I am just going to go shoot what I have. Its all about shooting images anyway.....

Pentax in cooperation with Tokina developed a series of lenses. Did Pentax follow up with the really nice 11-16/2.8 - NO. How about the additional new glass that Tokina has come out with - NO. Then Pentax partners with Tamron and re-badges the 18-250, and by some miracle of market sense, puts a $300 (50%) premium on the Tamron POC. These actions make absolutely no sense what so ever.

In order for Pentax to be successful, they need end customers / users, willing and able to purchase their products. Retailers (either online or brick & mortar) need to supply the product. Yes, the retailers need to make a margin to cover costs / overhead along with a profit, however it is also a function of volume. The higher the price the lower the volume - especially for commodity items. Pentax has been slow to realize the realities of the market place. Their MAP pricing structure is absolute madness - where even the retailers are asking them to return some common sense to their pricing structures. Until that happens, it certainly appears that both the retailers along with third party lens makers are finding other manufacturers to support.

Like I said, my checkbook is closed. I do not need any additional gear. What I have will be fine for quite some time.

Signed


Last edited by interested_observer; 01-01-2013 at 08:18 AM.
01-01-2013, 01:39 AM   #506
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I would assume this would be why I can't find any decently priced lens in Australia. Actually not even that no one stocks Pentax lenses and I am forced to buy from the US. A lens like a DA55-300 is like $600 it's a joke.
01-01-2013, 01:42 AM   #507
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I once owned the DA*16-50, but sold it a couple of years ago. Since then, my needs have changed and it would be worth it to re-purchase a lens in that focal range. But at $1500 (exactly DOUBLE what I paid originally!), I will never buy another DA*16-50, not at that price. Sigma or Tamron will profit from Pentax's decision, not Pentax.

Sign me up as well.

Last edited by NeverSatisfied; 01-01-2013 at 06:50 AM.
01-01-2013, 04:54 AM   #508
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I just wish Sigma and/or Tamron would finally start weathersealing their Pentax models. Facing reality, that's the only reason why Pentax DA*/WR lenses have an edge over the competitors.
01-01-2013, 05:12 AM   #509
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01-01-2013, 06:48 AM   #510
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QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
I just wish Sigma and/or Tamron would finally start weathersealing their Pentax models. Facing reality, that's the only reason why Pentax DA*/WR lenses have an edge over the competitors.
Tamron's new 24-70/2.8 is weather-sealed... oh yea, not available in Pentax mount, of course!
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