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01-03-2013, 10:40 AM   #526
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QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
I never said that, unless you're trying to misquote me.
OK, then you'd better explain what you meant by "Blowout at a loss, or barely above cost."
Remember that the weekend sale was basically at the old prices.

01-03-2013, 11:49 AM   #527
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
OK, then you'd better explain what you meant by "Blowout at a loss, or barely above cost."
Remember that the weekend sale was basically at the old prices.
I don't remember that because I wasn't paying attention to their weekend sale.

Until Pentax has stable, fair, justifiable pricing, longer warranty, and until the SDM problems no longer exist, I won't be paying attention.
01-03-2013, 12:07 PM   #528
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QuoteQuote:
Okay, I realize that there are tons of posts here, but why not just buy from Canada? Even with shipping to the U.S. you'll still get a whale of a deal on certain lenses. Check photoprice.ca for the best deals in Canada, contact a retailer, then decide for yourself. I guess the only negative is not having U.S. warranty, but a lot of Canadians purchased cheaper new Pentax items in the past and didn't worry about warranty if the savings were good enough. This is how Canadians send a message to our often over-priced Canadian retailers of other items, so maybe it will do the same to U.S. camera retailers!
Those prices at :"photoprice" are brilliant. Have a look at these Digital Cameras -Buy CHEAP at Digital Camera Warehouse for a comparison.Compare the DA40 for an example. I buy second hand or Nth American outlets compared to the extortionate Australian gangsterism pricing in Australia. Can save up to 50% or more.
Now there is talk by Politicians to hike up import duties to stop Aussies buying overseas. "We will charge anything we want and force you to pay it" attitude. Highway robbery.
*and there is GST to be added to those prices (Sales Tax)

Last edited by Bramela; 01-03-2013 at 12:13 PM.
01-03-2013, 12:43 PM   #529
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I can't really blame Pentax for raising prices if they were barely selling lenses above cost, but with something like a 50% increase on most lenses, come on! They should have dropped the MSRP when they did they're "uniform" pricing thing. I understand Pentax wants to see more of their gear in stores but that these prices they just can't be competitive unless they just want to sell camera bodies.

01-03-2013, 07:46 PM   #530
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I don't know where this thread has gone over the last 36 pages, but to Adam/OP, count me in.

I decided today to buy a DAF 100mm macro, but saw they are $847 at B&H. Dang, I don't know if I've been asleep at the wheel, and I know it is a great lens, but that may be a non-starter for me.
01-03-2013, 11:43 PM   #531
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I'm confused.

Current BH prices

Pentax DA*16-50 F2.8: $1500
Nikon 24-70 F2.8: $1890
Nikon 17-55 F2.8: $1399
Canon 24-70 F2.8: $2299
Canon 24-70 F4: $1500
Canon 17-55 F2.8: $1179
Canon 16-35 F2.8: $1699
Tamron 24-70 F2.8: $1299
Sigma 24-70 F2.8: $824
Sigma 17-50 F2.8: $669

Pentax DA* 50-135 F2.8: $1597
Nikon 70-200 F2.8: $2397
Nikon 70-200 F4.0: $1397
Canon 70-200 F2.8: $2499
Canon 70-200 F4.0 IS: $1349
Sigma 70-200 F2.8: $1249
Tamron 70-200 F2.8: $769

By the looks of it, the Pentax DA* zooms are cheaper than Nikon and Canon FF equivalents and more expensive than Sigma and Tamron alternatives. So someone starting from scratch today and considering a body and two zoom kit from Canon, Nikon, (either APS-C or FF) and Pentax, Pentax still looks like solid value in both bodies and lenses.

Yes, they are more expensive than they used to be. Yes, their SDM AF could be faster, better, and more reliable (I look forward to a faster focusing DA*50-135 F2.8 SDM II one day), but it looks like Pentax is trying to price their lenses at a price point below the big two and above the off-brands while still trying to make some money. After all these years of a struggling company with what many considered an uncertain future, that sounds like solid thinking, and the disappointment here is a reflection of the fact that we (myself included because I bought into many lenses a couple of years ago) may have had it too good for quite some time.

Will this level playing field encourage more B&Ms to sign up and thus give more people the chance to fondle the gear, to feel the ergonomic goodness of the K-5 as well as the smaller, weather-sealed zooms, and then buy them? I guess only time will tell

Am I missing something?
01-03-2013, 11:53 PM   #532
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The old Nikon comparison.

When Pentax brings themselves to the value-added area of Nikon, then we can talk, but until Pentax can even get pro support, body swaps during repairs, expedited repairs, reliable SDM, better warranty, there's no comparison.

Lots of people like comparing Pentax to Canon or Nikon by the spec sheets, not by how the systems are targeted and used and the support infrastructures around them. This is where it's hard to compare Pentax to them. Pentax is certainly (and feels like) a consumer company. Pentax has a long way to go before it becomes a comparable pro company, like Canon and Nikon and it doesn't seem like they will be going there. It's nice, anywhere in the world, to get a Nikon or Canon repaired, expedited, loaners, used parts, etc.

QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
I'm confused.

Current BH prices

Pentax DA*16-50 F2.8: $1500
Nikon 24-70 F2.8: $1890
Nikon 17-55 F2.8: $1399
Canon 24-70 F2.8: $2299
Canon 24-70 F4: $1500
Canon 17-55 F2.8: $1179
Canon 16-35 F2.8: $1699
Tamron 24-70 F2.8: $1299
Sigma 24-70 F2.8: $824
Sigma 17-50 F2.8: $669

Pentax DA* 50-135 F2.8: $1597
Nikon 70-200 F2.8: $2397
Nikon 70-200 F4.0: $1397
Canon 70-200 F2.8: $2499
Canon 70-200 F4.0 IS: $1349
Sigma 70-200 F2.8: $1249
Tamron 70-200 F2.8: $769

By the looks of it, the Pentax DA* zooms are cheaper than Nikon and Canon FF equivalents and more expensive than Sigma and Tamron alternatives. So someone starting from scratch today and considering a body and two zoom kit from Canon, Nikon, (either APS-C or FF) and Pentax, Pentax still looks like solid value in both bodies and lenses.

Yes, they are more expensive than they used to be. Yes, their SDM AF could be faster, better, and more reliable (I look forward to a faster focusing DA*50-135 F2.8 SDM II one day), but it looks like Pentax is trying to price their lenses at a price point below the big two and above the off-brands while still trying to make some money. After all these years of a struggling company with what many considered an uncertain future, that sounds like solid thinking, and the disappointment here is a reflection of the fact that we (myself included because I bought into many lenses a couple of years ago) may have had it too good for quite some time.

Will this level playing field encourage more B&Ms to sign up and thus give more people the chance to fondle the gear, to feel the ergonomic goodness of the K-5 as well as the smaller, weather-sealed zooms, and then buy them? I guess only time will tell

Am I missing something?
01-04-2013, 12:30 AM   #533
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QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
When Pentax brings themselves to the value-added area of Nikon, then we can talk, but until Pentax can even get pro support, body swaps during repairs, expedited repairs, reliable SDM, better warranty, there's no comparison.
Not to mention, which of the above-listed prices are for full-frame sensors versus those for APS-C sensors? I find it an abomination when I see Pentax APS-C glass even anywhere within the same price range as FF glass.

01-04-2013, 12:35 AM   #534
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QuoteOriginally posted by enoxatnep Quote
Not to mention, which of the above-listed prices are for full-frame sensors versus those for APS-C sensors? I find it an abomination when I see Pentax APS-C glass even anywhere within the same price range as FF glass.
I was thinking about that, too, but was not able to check at the time.

Thanks for looking into that.
01-04-2013, 07:02 AM   #535
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QuoteOriginally posted by enoxatnep Quote
Not to mention, which of the above-listed prices are for full-frame sensors versus those for APS-C sensors? I find it an abomination when I see Pentax APS-C glass even anywhere within the same price range as FF glass.
Well, how about Micro-Four Thirds glass then?

Pentax DA*16-50 F2.8: $1500
Panasonic Lumix G 12-35 F2.8 OIS: $1,144

Pentax DA* 50-135 F2.8: $1597
Panasonic Lumix G 35-100 F2.8 OIS: $1,498

Or Sony?
Sony 16-50 F2.8: $798
Sony 24-70 F2.8: $1,998
Sony 70-200 F2.8: $1,998

If you look at the APS-C lenses from other makes, it does look like the Pentax DA*16-50 F2.8 may be overpriced and hopefully Pentax will see that.

But try to put together a weather-sealed, two zoom system covering 24-200mm EQ (body plus two lenses) from any manufacturer - Sony, Panasonic, Olympus, Nikon, and Canon - and I bet the Pentax system is right in the ballpark on price.
01-04-2013, 07:18 AM   #536
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Doesn't in-lens stabilization contribute to Nikon and Canon lens price? Pentax doesn't need it.
01-04-2013, 09:03 AM   #537
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QuoteOriginally posted by Biff Quote
Doesn't in-lens stabilization contribute to Nikon and Canon lens price? Pentax doesn't need it.
That, and even though SDM has come a long way (apparently, issues resolved for 2012 lenses and newer, according to Pentax), the Canon and Nikon autofocus systems are still worth the extra cost to me. They have a longer track record and are still faster than SDM, although I'll state that I find SDM to be crazy-accurate with my K-5. However, still not as good as Canikon and thus not worth it in terms of cost.

Sorry, by the way, for taking this thread somewhat off-topic. I just felt that I needed to air these beefs in the past few posts.
01-04-2013, 10:09 AM   #538
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The DA * lenses are definitely over priced if sold at MSRP. I don't know why Pentax would even think about asking 1500 dollars for the 16-50, for instance. The only thing I can think is that there is a different version coming out soon and they want to make their current stock last. But that would mean that there was some thought that went into the current policy and I very much doubt it.
01-04-2013, 10:17 AM   #539
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
Data?
None needed. It is an absurd hypothesis.

Let's see... keep a lens factory and all subcontractors working year-round for a small blowout once a year. Hmmm.

That you even think data is required is puzzling.
01-04-2013, 10:22 AM   #540
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QuoteOriginally posted by enoxatnep Quote
That, and even though SDM has come a long way (apparently, issues resolved for 2012 lenses and newer, according to Pentax), the Canon and Nikon autofocus systems are still worth the extra cost to me. They have a longer track record and are still faster than SDM, although I'll state that I find SDM to be crazy-accurate with my K-5. However, still not as good as Canikon and thus not worth it in terms of cost.

Sorry, by the way, for taking this thread somewhat off-topic. I just felt that I needed to air these beefs in the past few posts.
For the record, every year Pentax and many unknown people leak this on every photo forum. The same people, when challenged, including on this very forum, will never answer when asked to substantiate if there are new, redesigned parts, prove it, and get Pentax to verify it. It's been a few years now and no substantiation has materialized, but failures, including repaired failed lenses, are still coming forward.

There are no new parts that solve the inherent problems, period. No new parts will be made because it's very lucrative to charge 3-400 USD/EUR for a repair every 12-18 months. On the german forums, people are much less apt to fanboy and protect pentax there, reporting they are on their fourth failure on the same lens, for instance.

It's great business (perhaps learned from Mercedes) to subsidize a business and then some using repair abuse and underengineering.
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