Pentax: Lack of fast primes

lytrytyr · 12-20-2012, 02:00 AM

Don't forget the new 25mm and 90mm lenses for 645, either.

(Edit: The "9 0 m m" link was added automatically by the site,
and is not appropriate for the topic of 645.

These automatic links are rather annoying.)

**Pål Jensen** · 12-20-2012, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by Ben_Edict

The new 560mm lens is really an odd decision in this light, neither small, nor fast and about IQ - who knows?

Ben

Nothing odd about the 560mm lens. A super telephoto is needed in every complete lens line-up....

**Pål Jensen** · 12-20-2012, 07:39 PM

Originally posted by godwinaustin

Whats the deal with pentax having close to zero modern fast glass? Even if you head back to the older lenses, lenses with an aperture below 2 are few and far between.

How nice would something like a modern 35 1.4 be? or a 28 1.8?

Bacause extremely few are buying such lenses. 95% of the sales are zoom lenses. Superfast lenses is just a tiny fraction of the total of prime lenses sold. The need for them have diminished since the film days due to vastly improved high ISO performance. (hardly anyone bught this lenses due to DOF. 99% bought them for low light shooting in spite of the thin DOF wide open).

The demand from high resolution sensors (and pixel peeping) makes the quality demand high. Such fast lenses are difficult to design at a high quality level and will be VERY expensive.
They have very little usage today unless you are into some truly niche type of photography....Canon have discontinued several of their cause no one bought them....

lytrytyr · 12-21-2012, 01:11 AM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

They have very little usage today unless you are into some truly niche type of photography....Canon have discontinued several of their cause no one bought them....

And yet Samyang, Sigma, and Zeiss have all recently introduced 35/1.4 lenses.

creampuff · 12-21-2012, 07:08 AM

Want to know the real reason why fast lenses don't figure prominently in the Pentax lineup? Whether budget conscious, financially challenged or plain cheapskates most Pentax users will howl loudly how expensive the current lenses are. It does appear that Canikon users don't have so much angst to dole out money for fast lenses. Pentax is not stupid enough to make fast and expensive lenses for the few who are prepared and have the means to buy fast large aperture lenses. Especially when the bulk of the Pentax user base is looking for cheap stuff.

lytrytyr · 12-21-2012, 07:23 AM

Originally posted by creampuff

Pentax is not stupid enough to make fast and expensive lenses for the few who are prepared and have the means to buy fast large aperture lenses.

Pentax make FA LImited lenses, all faster than f/2 and more than $500, but that doesn't make them "stupid."

creampuff · 12-21-2012, 07:57 AM

Originally posted by lytrytyr

Pentax make FA LImited lenses, all faster than f/2 and more than $500, but that doesn't make them "stupid."

The FA Limiteds while great lenses are a carryover from 35mm film camera days with their screw drive focusing. Canon, Nikon and Sigma make faster and silent focusing lenses with newer designs and coatings. Perhaps with the exception of the DA* 55mm f/1.4 and cheapo DA 50mm f/1.8, there hasn't actually been any new lenses at the wide angle or telephoto focal lengths f/2 or faster. Ask yourself how many Pentax users own all three FA Limiteds? Or even the most expensive FA Limited, the FA 31mm f/1.8? Not a whole lot.

Pentax's emphasis on lenses with smaller max aperture which are cheaper to produce and cost less is a marketing reality... selling to a demographic which doesn't have a propensity to spend a lot on photo gear.

godwinaustin · 12-21-2012, 09:06 AM

great discussion everyone.

just came across this lens from sigma - looks pretty damn interesting: LensRentals.com - Sigma 35mm f/1.4 Arrives. Announces New World Order.

now if only pentax could follow it up with something better

godwinaustin · 12-21-2012, 09:20 AM

and the idea that people dont need fast lenses anymore is ridiculous, its all relative - I shoot in low light quite a bit and the difference between a 2.4 and 1.4 is HUGE

it would be cool to see pentax release a FAST, moderately priced new prime, somewhere in the 20-30mm range.

Fuji released a damn good 35mm 1.4 for 600 dollars....that is what id like to see from pentax. 500-600, good glass, fast.

it can be done

lytrytyr · 12-21-2012, 09:21 AM

Originally posted by godwinaustin

just came across this lens from sigma - looks pretty damn interesting: LensRentals.com - Sigma 35mm f/1.4 Arrives. Announces New World Order.

That was the one being referenced in the earlier posts

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/209004-pentax-...ml#post2210161

and

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/209004-pentax-...ml#post2212389

iceshiel · 12-21-2012, 11:12 AM

I am perfectly happy with my da35 2.8 but I really do wish pentax had more modern fast prime lens offerings. The FA LTDs are amazing but surely Pentax needs to update their lens line ups for greater long-term sustainability.

**Ron Boggs** · 12-21-2012, 02:26 PM - **1 Like**

Remember, Pentax had modern lens coatings before any other brand--by decades in some cases--and the SMC (Super Multi Coating) product was so good that Hoya bought the entire company to get rights to SMC which you may have noticed prominently in the Hoya ads currently. Sure, they added the "smudge resistant, water drop resistant 8th outer layer since, but that wasn't an optical addition, nor is it necessary.

Claims pertaining to FA Limiteds not being modern are only looking at the calendar, not the lens design characteristics nor the coatings. As for focusing method, it's quite evident from the lack of warranty issues that mechanical auto focus is far more reliable than electronic motor driven focusing. This is true in all brands. And yep, it's noisier than the new servo focusing...haven't ever used auto focus so isn't of concern to me.

The final test is "do the images sell?" and though I'm just an avid amateur I've had approximately 1000 images paid for and published in several dozen magazines--8 cover photos--using Pentax fast primes as well as fast zooms so the images seem to be competitive in the modern marketplace.

jcdoss · 12-21-2012, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by Ron Boggs

Claims pertaining to FA Limiteds not being modern are only looking at the calendar, not the lens design characteristics nor the coatings. As for focusing method, it's quite evident from the lack of warranty issues that mechanical auto focus is far more reliable than electronic motor driven focusing. This is true in all brands. And yep, it's noisier than the new servo focusing...haven't ever used auto focus so isn't of concern to me.

The noise is pretty bad, though. This is essentially my only criticism of these lenses so far... then again, I'm not exactly qualified to issue criticisms.

normhead · 12-21-2012, 04:00 PM

Isn't there like a bevy of fast Sigma lens, 30 1.4 , 70 1.4, 85 1.4. All as far as I can tell excellent lenses.

lytrytyr · 12-22-2012, 01:34 AM

Originally posted by Ron Boggs

Claims pertaining to FA Limiteds not being modern are only looking at the calendar, not the lens design characteristics nor the coatings.

That is not correct:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/209004-pentax-...ml#post2210360

BTW, for an idea of what a modern lens looks like,
check out the technology of the new Sigma 35/1.4.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Pentax lack of Full Frame	Franky2step	Photographic Industry and Professionals	28	09-24-2012 07:29 AM
Foiled again by the lack of wide primes.	fuent104	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	21	07-23-2012 12:01 PM
Anyone Else Worried About Lack of Pentax Version of New Tamron Lenses?	CFWhitman	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	41	02-10-2012 06:13 AM
Weather sealed primes under 100mm (lack of)	TOUGEFC	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	26	08-03-2011 05:04 PM
For Sale - Sold: Fast Pentax Manual Primes CONUS	crewl1	Sold Items	3	03-15-2011 08:56 AM

12-20-2012, 02:00 AM	#31
lytrytyr Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,310	Don't forget the new 25mm and 90mm lenses for 645, either. (Edit: The "9 0 m m" link was added automatically by the site, and is not appropriate for the topic of 645. These automatic links are rather annoying.)

12-20-2012, 07:34 PM	#32
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by Ben_Edict The new 560mm lens is really an odd decision in this light, neither small, nor fast and about IQ - who knows? Ben Nothing odd about the 560mm lens. A super telephoto is needed in every complete lens line-up....

12-20-2012, 07:39 PM	#33
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by godwinaustin Whats the deal with pentax having close to zero modern fast glass? Even if you head back to the older lenses, lenses with an aperture below 2 are few and far between. How nice would something like a modern 35 1.4 be? or a 28 1.8? Bacause extremely few are buying such lenses. 95% of the sales are zoom lenses. Superfast lenses is just a tiny fraction of the total of prime lenses sold. The need for them have diminished since the film days due to vastly improved high ISO performance. (hardly anyone bught this lenses due to DOF. 99% bought them for low light shooting in spite of the thin DOF wide open). The demand from high resolution sensors (and pixel peeping) makes the quality demand high. Such fast lenses are difficult to design at a high quality level and will be VERY expensive. They have very little usage today unless you are into some truly niche type of photography....Canon have discontinued several of their cause no one bought them....

12-21-2012, 01:11 AM	#34
lytrytyr Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,310	Originally posted by Pål Jensen They have very little usage today unless you are into some truly niche type of photography....Canon have discontinued several of their cause no one bought them.... And yet Samyang, Sigma, and Zeiss have all recently introduced 35/1.4 lenses.

12-21-2012, 07:08 AM	#35
creampuff Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,953	Want to know the real reason why fast lenses don't figure prominently in the Pentax lineup? Whether budget conscious, financially challenged or plain cheapskates most Pentax users will howl loudly how expensive the current lenses are. It does appear that Canikon users don't have so much angst to dole out money for fast lenses. Pentax is not stupid enough to make fast and expensive lenses for the few who are prepared and have the means to buy fast large aperture lenses. Especially when the bulk of the Pentax user base is looking for cheap stuff.

12-21-2012, 07:23 AM	#36
lytrytyr Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,310	Originally posted by creampuff Pentax is not stupid enough to make fast and expensive lenses for the few who are prepared and have the means to buy fast large aperture lenses. Pentax make FA LImited lenses, all faster than f/2 and more than $500, but that doesn't make them "stupid."

12-21-2012, 07:57 AM	#37
creampuff Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,953	Originally posted by lytrytyr Pentax make FA LImited lenses, all faster than f/2 and more than $500, but that doesn't make them "stupid." The FA Limiteds while great lenses are a carryover from 35mm film camera days with their screw drive focusing. Canon, Nikon and Sigma make faster and silent focusing lenses with newer designs and coatings. Perhaps with the exception of the DA* 55mm f/1.4 and cheapo DA 50mm f/1.8, there hasn't actually been any new lenses at the wide angle or telephoto focal lengths f/2 or faster. Ask yourself how many Pentax users own all three FA Limiteds? Or even the most expensive FA Limited, the FA 31mm f/1.8? Not a whole lot. Pentax's emphasis on lenses with smaller max aperture which are cheaper to produce and cost less is a marketing reality... selling to a demographic which doesn't have a propensity to spend a lot on photo gear.

12-21-2012, 09:06 AM	#38
godwinaustin Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Jackson, Wyoming Posts: 89 Original Poster	great discussion everyone. just came across this lens from sigma - looks pretty damn interesting: LensRentals.com - Sigma 35mm f/1.4 Arrives. Announces New World Order. now if only pentax could follow it up with something better

12-21-2012, 09:20 AM	#39
godwinaustin Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Jackson, Wyoming Posts: 89 Original Poster	and the idea that people dont need fast lenses anymore is ridiculous, its all relative - I shoot in low light quite a bit and the difference between a 2.4 and 1.4 is HUGE it would be cool to see pentax release a FAST, moderately priced new prime, somewhere in the 20-30mm range. Fuji released a damn good 35mm 1.4 for 600 dollars....that is what id like to see from pentax. 500-600, good glass, fast. it can be done

12-21-2012, 09:21 AM	#40
lytrytyr Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,310	Originally posted by godwinaustin just came across this lens from sigma - looks pretty damn interesting: LensRentals.com - Sigma 35mm f/1.4 Arrives. Announces New World Order. That was the one being referenced in the earlier posts https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/209004-pentax-...ml#post2210161 and https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/209004-pentax-...ml#post2212389

12-21-2012, 11:12 AM	#41
iceshiel Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 40	I am perfectly happy with my da35 2.8 but I really do wish pentax had more modern fast prime lens offerings. The FA LTDs are amazing but surely Pentax needs to update their lens line ups for greater long-term sustainability.

12-21-2012, 02:26 PM - 1 Like	#42
Ron Boggs Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: MT Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,349	Remember, Pentax had modern lens coatings before any other brand--by decades in some cases--and the SMC (Super Multi Coating) product was so good that Hoya bought the entire company to get rights to SMC which you may have noticed prominently in the Hoya ads currently. Sure, they added the "smudge resistant, water drop resistant 8th outer layer since, but that wasn't an optical addition, nor is it necessary. Claims pertaining to FA Limiteds not being modern are only looking at the calendar, not the lens design characteristics nor the coatings. As for focusing method, it's quite evident from the lack of warranty issues that mechanical auto focus is far more reliable than electronic motor driven focusing. This is true in all brands. And yep, it's noisier than the new servo focusing...haven't ever used auto focus so isn't of concern to me. The final test is "do the images sell?" and though I'm just an avid amateur I've had approximately 1000 images paid for and published in several dozen magazines--8 cover photos--using Pentax fast primes as well as fast zooms so the images seem to be competitive in the modern marketplace.

12-21-2012, 03:29 PM	#43
jcdoss Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Ingelheim am Rhein, Germany Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,768	Originally posted by Ron Boggs Claims pertaining to FA Limiteds not being modern are only looking at the calendar, not the lens design characteristics nor the coatings. As for focusing method, it's quite evident from the lack of warranty issues that mechanical auto focus is far more reliable than electronic motor driven focusing. This is true in all brands. And yep, it's noisier than the new servo focusing...haven't ever used auto focus so isn't of concern to me. The noise is pretty bad, though. This is essentially my only criticism of these lenses so far... then again, I'm not exactly qualified to issue criticisms.

12-21-2012, 04:00 PM	#44
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Isn't there like a bevy of fast Sigma lens, 30 1.4 , 70 1.4, 85 1.4. All as far as I can tell excellent lenses.

12-22-2012, 01:34 AM	#45
lytrytyr Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,310	Originally posted by Ron Boggs Claims pertaining to FA Limiteds not being modern are only looking at the calendar, not the lens design characteristics nor the coatings. That is not correct: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/209004-pentax-...ml#post2210360 BTW, for an idea of what a modern lens looks like, check out the technology of the new Sigma 35/1.4.