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12-26-2012, 04:31 AM   #16
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Sorry, I don't own a Zeiss and cannot comment on them. Threaded brass typically doesn't gall like aluminum or stainless but I have no real experience with lenses with brass filter mounts so my opinion is worthless.

12-26-2012, 05:35 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
Then Hoya isn't using 6061-T6 and there is also not one alloy of brass. This is playing a game for people that wouldn't know better. Brass is typically used for hardness, in and out of the machine shop. This applies to wire wheels, as well as such things as hammers. You're free to check into it yourself. I also don't see bushings made of 6061, but of brass.

The rest of what you've said is mostly clipped from the Wiki article that I posted.

Hoya has directly answered the question of why they use Al and believe it's because of impacts and transfer of shocks to the lens housing:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/FrameWork/Product_Resources/SourceBook35mm/04hoyaFilters.pdf

They state the Al is softer than the brass.

Here's a hardness chart of common brass alloys:

Brass | MetalMart International, Inc.

Here's an ASM chart of 6061 T6 and its hardness:

ASM Material Data Sheet

Both clearly indicate brass being harder. That is, if Hoya is really using 6061 T6. Maybe they do, but I haven't found it yet.

Snake,
Please cool your jets. Aluminum, in an annealed state, is slightly harder than free machining brass. Once the aluminum is cold worked, as it is when thread forming and especially if you anodize it, is harder than free machining brass that is merely painted. I didn't think to clarify that. I am not trying to play games with you or anyone else, and I never even opened up your Wikipedia link.

The real point is that many people have had stuck filters and I was trying to make the OP aware of it as a factor in choosing filters. For my part, I intend to leave it there.
12-26-2012, 05:52 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by mushin Quote
Snake,
Please cool your jets. Aluminum, in an annealed state, is slightly harder than free machining brass. Once the aluminum is cold worked, as it is when thread forming and especially if you anodize it, is harder than free machining brass that is merely painted. I didn't think to clarify that. I am not trying to play games with you or anyone else, and I never even opened up your Wikipedia link.

The real point is that many people have had stuck filters and I was trying to make the OP aware of it as a factor in choosing filters. For my part, I intend to leave it there.
There are no jets to cool. Don't make false statements to back up your point and there won't be an issue.

If you simply kept it at "stuck filters" without offering multiple false statements of the basis behind it, then there would be no issue.

This is a consumer forum that thrives on having good, valid information on the products, not blatantly false statements that are easily refuted in only a few moments of googling.
12-26-2012, 10:41 AM   #19
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I meant to leave this alone since arguing with people like you usually ends up badly but I find your statements insulting so I will address you.

I machine these materials (aluminum, stainless, brass, etc.) weekly or daily to close tolerances and have learned about galling through both study and experience. Do you have cutting fluid under your nails or is your machining experience conducted with a mouse? You say you've worked and studied metalworking in the past so if you can discuss this as machinist to machinist then we can have a go at it. I haven't said anything that is misleading. My mistake was in not recognizing that what most machinists consider common knowledge is not so common outside that group. I am referring to work hardening here, just to be clear. Google it.

I made the point that filters can gall and get stuck on lenses. You implied that since this wasn't your experience that I was making something of it. Many people have had filters get seriously stuck.Go ahead, do a search and prove I'm lying. I've made more filter wrenches than I care to remember over the years to know this is an issue to be aware of. You also implied that I "clipped" info from the Wiki you posted. I did not; I spoke from experience - the real kind, both as a lens and filter user of over 40 years and as a machinist.

I just started posting on this forum recently and expect that I will hear from the Mods soon but I also frequent other forums and there are always bullies like you in one form or another. Quite frankly, I'm tired of people like you who think that intimidation will work with everybody. It doesn't. If the forum mods don't spot you soon and deal with you then other folks who fail to stand up to your tactics will be driven from the forum. And please, don't tell me that I'm misleading the forum. I am simply not tolerating your attitude.

Mods, do what you will. I've tried to express an opinion to the OP with the intent to be helpful but it seems that my tolerance is getting thin as I age.

12-26-2012, 10:45 AM   #20
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Galling and corrosion happen to all metals. Brass is better but things do seize, even brass. I've repaired truck refrigeration equipment for over 40 years and have spent countless hours removing brass fittings from alumunium compressors and valve bodies. In the case of lenses and filters, problems are easily prevented by the occasional removal of the filter. Since I never leave my filters on a lens all the time, the issue of galling isn't a concern. I take care not to over tighten either. Both alumunium and brass are soft metals that can be easily stripped or cross threaded. I would bet that most stuck filters are the result of over tightening or slight damage. One of the biggest reasons say they need a filter is to protect the lens from bumps. Those bumps can put small dents in filter ring or the threaded end of the lens making it just a little out of round and the result is "stuck". It may not be easily visible but will be felt as a tight spot in a particular place you feel when screwing in the filter.
12-26-2012, 11:57 AM   #21
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Wow, first time I see metalworkers going at it on these forums. Refreshing.

Last edited by Na Horuk; 12-26-2012 at 07:16 PM.
12-26-2012, 03:03 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by mushin Quote
I meant to leave this alone since arguing with people like you usually ends up badly but I find your statements insulting so I will address you.

I machine these materials (aluminum, stainless, brass, etc.) weekly or daily to close tolerances and have learned about galling through both study and experience. Do you have cutting fluid under your nails or is your machining experience conducted with a mouse? You say you've worked and studied metalworking in the past so if you can discuss this as machinist to machinist then we can have a go at it. I haven't said anything that is misleading. My mistake was in not recognizing that what most machinists consider common knowledge is not so common outside that group. I am referring to work hardening here, just to be clear. Google it.

I made the point that filters can gall and get stuck on lenses. You implied that since this wasn't your experience that I was making something of it. Many people have had filters get seriously stuck.Go ahead, do a search and prove I'm lying. I've made more filter wrenches than I care to remember over the years to know this is an issue to be aware of. You also implied that I "clipped" info from the Wiki you posted. I did not; I spoke from experience - the real kind, both as a lens and filter user of over 40 years and as a machinist.

I just started posting on this forum recently and expect that I will hear from the Mods soon but I also frequent other forums and there are always bullies like you in one form or another. Quite frankly, I'm tired of people like you who think that intimidation will work with everybody. It doesn't. If the forum mods don't spot you soon and deal with you then other folks who fail to stand up to your tactics will be driven from the forum. And please, don't tell me that I'm misleading the forum. I am simply not tolerating your attitude.

Mods, do what you will. I've tried to express an opinion to the OP with the intent to be helpful but it seems that my tolerance is getting thin as I age.
There was no issue. You made statements, which I was able to refute, along with references as proof. Bad information should not make it to the forum, not especially when the facts to refute them are so easily found.

How that turns into "bullying" is beyond me, but funny just the same. There was no attitude, no intimidation.

My post with the refutations stands and has the relevant references. That's all.
12-26-2012, 03:39 PM - 1 Like   #23
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Oh please, Snake, your ego got bruised somehow and you took issue with every little thing. You are implying that its me against the forum, which isn't true at all. Its me against you and your insulting arrogance. The forum has nothing to do with this.

I see you for what you are - a shallow little forum bully. You refused to focus on the issue, that galling can occur and filters get stuck. Instead you spent my time and yours dealing with your ego issues. I will let this go for now but in the future don't think that you can bully anyone else. If I see it, and you're wrong, I'll step up.

You're right about one thing, though. Your posts do stand for all to see.

12-26-2012, 03:46 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by reeftool Quote
Galling and corrosion happen to all metals. Brass is better but things do seize, even brass. I've repaired truck refrigeration equipment for over 40 years and have spent countless hours removing brass fittings from alumunium compressors and valve bodies. In the case of lenses and filters, problems are easily prevented by the occasional removal of the filter. Since I never leave my filters on a lens all the time, the issue of galling isn't a concern. I take care not to over tighten either. Both alumunium and brass are soft metals that can be easily stripped or cross threaded. I would bet that most stuck filters are the result of over tightening or slight damage. One of the biggest reasons say they need a filter is to protect the lens from bumps. Those bumps can put small dents in filter ring or the threaded end of the lens making it just a little out of round and the result is "stuck". It may not be easily visible but will be felt as a tight spot in a particular place you feel when screwing in the filter.
Hi Reeftool. I have to agree - stuck filters can be due to overtightening or a damaged mount. My worst stuck was on a lens that had a filter that wouldn't stay on so I tightened it a bit more and left that filter on for a few years. When I went to take it off to use a polarizer it was stuck so bad that it required a wrench and a vise to get it off. Lots of white powder was left on the threads so I probably ground through the anodizing. Lesson learned.
12-26-2012, 07:18 PM   #25
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Well filters can also get stuck if their ring gets bent or if the air pressure (temperature) changes. There have been many threads on people asking for help with removing a stuck filter. The answer is not to put them on too tightly and to take them off every once in a while.
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