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01-15-2013, 11:41 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by VisualDarkness Quote
Still, if UPS or similar does find it to be a fraud they could charge for it in my opinion, if they find it to be lost they simply won't charge.
Yes, but now it's between the shipper and the buyer and the shipper sets the policy. The seller is out of the equation - they might be willing to ship another item to a buyer that is a repeat customer and has a good history, but that is at their latitude. I was lucky to not go through any such experience, so I don't know whether it is handled differently. All my problems were with packages damaged during shipping. And for damage of goods, I expect that the shipper covers the seller as part of getting their business - the seller probably gets better terms and rates than an individual shipping a package.

01-16-2013, 01:21 AM - 1 Like   #47
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Since I see a few people here singing the praises of B&H photo here is what happened to us: Most here that have read our posts know that we do no business with B&H, why? When I(David) switched from Nikon to Pentax(which is what Karen uses) I had a war chest of over 20K to spend on lenses, cameras etc. And I had used B&H and Adorama about equally for literally decades. Indeed for the Nikon system I spent about 12-15K at B&H over the previous 24 months. When I needed to get lenses for the new K5 we got I ran into huge issues with bad lenses: the 55sdm would not focus properly and had an element or elements clunking around inside, the 15da was so mis centered that the right of the frame was mush, the 21da had it's diaphragm mis centered in the lens elements(a first, never seen that one) and was also soft on the right side, a Sigma 50-500 OS was soft across the entire frame a little, and had right sided frame smearing(indeed, 18mo later we tried another sample of this lens again on the same camera, and it is a delight, just breath taking). And last a Pentax 17-70 was mis centered on the frame, esp. at 70 mm, and Karen tried the Sigma 17-70(2009 edition) and it had so much field curvature at 70mm that she returned it. WE always take pictures with the lenses, obviously otherwise how can you tell what was wrong? And when we returned the lenses we offered to upload the pics to B&H. B&H kept me(David) on hold for around 30min, accused me of lying about the lenses, accused me of not knowing how to use lenses, and banned me from ever ordering anything from them or from buying from the store in NYC(I live in NM, so that was really a non-issue). And they instructed me to buy locally from then on. Now we all know what Pentax and Sigma were going through with QC for years, so I was not pleased with their response at all. And the fact that they went out of their way to lecture me, belittle me, and then threaten me with not allowing the return(the lenses were returned within 48hrs of receipt - I test them immed. upon receipt), even though I could send them the pics to prove all, kills any respect I have for them. Yes all stores have their days, but Adorama stuck by us(ask me about the 5 16-50DA* lenses we tried from them), and I will always respect them for that. I know this sounds like a rant, but I kept my mouth closed for the last 18 months about what happened because they are a sponsor here, but this thread brings out the whole issue again. Feel free to ignore as YMMV as usual

01-16-2013, 02:08 AM   #48

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QuoteOriginally posted by David&karen Quote
B&H kept me(David) on hold for around 30min, accused me of lying about the lenses, accused me of not knowing how to use lenses, and banned me from ever ordering anything from them or from buying from the store in NYC(I live in NM, so that was really a non-issue). And they instructed me to buy locally from then on.
Sorry to hear about your experience.
Did you raise the issue on the "Ask B&H Photo!" part of the forum?
01-16-2013, 02:21 AM   #49
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Nope, tried to fix it with them, they treated us just the same. The bottom line is if they sell a defective product I am not going to keep it, and I dont care if the order is for 30$ or 6000$, and they did not agree.


01-16-2013, 03:02 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by VisualDarkness Quote
I can really see why you do this, though if everyone would be honest there would need for it. I think had a nice way around this problem with my "DOA" Da*300/F4. They simply put in a new order for a lens and as soon as I contacted them and I had 3-4 weeks (I think it was) to return my first package and if I failed to do so they would have charged my credit card with two lenses instead. Though I don't know if that works for you but as a customer I got a working lens pretty quick.

Is it possible for you to ship a new product as soon as a claim for a lost package comes in and charge double (maybe even more) if the claim proves to be wrong? Are credit cards safe enough for you in that aspect?
What we can do is raise a second charge immediately, ship a replacement, and then refund if the UPS trace confirms that the package has been lost by them.
But with Amazon, you aren't exactly comparing like-with-like. Amazon is the world's largest Internet retailer, with fulfilment centers in 12 US States, PLUS, 3 locations in Canada, 4 locations in Scotland, 5 in England, 3 in Wales, 5 in France, 4 in each of Germany and Japan, 3 in China, and 1 in each of Slovakia and Italy.

Adorama is a family business in NYC with a single distribution center in New Jersey!

Amazon can probably afford to take the risk of losses more easily than we can.
01-16-2013, 03:03 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by LaurenOE Quote
As for Helen's request for the order number from me so she can take it out on the person? No. That is not going to happen to some poor schmuck in the warehouse.
ALL Adorama staff members are valued very highly by the Management Team, and the company takes great care to review regularly the way everybody is trained and supported. I don't manage anyone in the Distribution Center, so to take someone to task over this wouldn't be my responsibility, (and even if it were, that isn't the way to get the best out of people). However, as soon as the details of your order have been established as you suggest, they will be passed to the DC Manager so he can implement any changes or training updates as may be required.

QuoteOriginally posted by LaurenOE Quote
Whomever the person was, who filled the order, was hired, trained and supervised by the folks at Adorama. If Adorama doesn't have some mechanism in place to make sure these things don't happen - pro actively - then I have no responsibility to help Adorama *fix* something that should NOT be broken in the first place when it comes to internet sales.

We always welcome customer suggestions for improvement; I guess I thought that the reason for your posting on PF was to draw our attention to our slip-up on this occasion so that we could address the issue at hand - and ensure any required changes are put in place to reduce the possibility of this happening again. Obviously the more information we have and the quicker we have it, the faster we can respond.

I have similarly taken on board your thoughts about our CS staff member on the 'phone, and asked the CS Manager to look at what responses they are advised to give to customers in circumstances such as yours.

We wouldn't, however, be looking to change our belief that it is the right thing to employ staff who reflect the multi-cultural aspect of life in NYC.

We appreciate that there are many fine photography vendors in the US - and not just in NYC - and understand completely that if we fail to offer exactly the services a customer requires, that they may choose to shop elsewhere. In the meantime we will continue to do our best to develop and respond to each situation as it arises in the best way we can.
01-16-2013, 05:22 AM   #52
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Thanks for your sincere attempt to calmly and professional handle this whole issue Helen.... Obvious though that this thread has run it's course.
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