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02-07-2013, 06:29 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
It helps you decide which lenses to buy, and which lenses to avoid.
And use reviews don't? User reviews not only tell you about the quality, but also things like build quality, bokeh, focusing, and many other things that absolute numbers never capture. But hey, have fun buying lenses depending on mostly arbitrary number scales

02-07-2013, 09:06 AM   #17
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User rating scores are not consistent. Most of their reviews are based on personal "like". For example, most people in here like the 18-135WR and they rated it good. Other test data said it is not.
02-07-2013, 10:12 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
And use reviews don't? User reviews not only tell you about the quality, but also things like build quality, bokeh, focusing, and many other things that absolute numbers never capture. But hey, have fun buying lenses depending on mostly arbitrary number scales
The number scales are not arbitrary, if you read them properly.
(Possible exception: points used in rankings.)

The user reviews are also helpful (I've even written a couple myself ),
but again, you do need to read them properly as well.
Different users have different criteria,
and different bases for comparison.
02-07-2013, 10:20 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by vodanh1982 Quote
User rating scores are not consistent. Most of their reviews are based on personal "like". For example, most people in here like the 18-135WR and they rated it good. Other test data said it is not.
I don't have that lens, but often wonder about it.
If it was presented to the testers as a weather-sealed 24/4 prime,
or a 20-35/4 "limited" zoom,
I suspect that it would be rated quite highly.

02-07-2013, 10:32 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
I don't have that lens, but often wonder about it.
If it was presented to the testers as a weather-sealed 24/4 prime,
or a 20-35/4 "limited" zoom,
I suspect that it would be rated quite highly.
Only if the lens was sharp. That's the main complaint of the 18-135, that it isn't as sharp as what some users like. I don't think there's another complaint about that lens.
02-07-2013, 10:37 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
Only if the lens was sharp. That's the main complaint of the 18-135, that it isn't as sharp as what some users like. I don't think there's another complaint about that lens.
The main complaint about the 18-135 is that its not a prime - duh. For a middling long zoom it is a very competent lens IMHO. If you want prime sharpness then buy a prime for gosh sakes, if you want a versatile WR lens that has a silent motor that is not going to fail, but the 18-135 and know that its a gosh darn zoom.
02-07-2013, 10:40 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
The main complaint about the 18-135 is that its not a prime - duh. For a middling long zoom it is a very competent lens IMHO. If you want prime sharpness then buy a prime for gosh sakes, if you want a versatile WR lens that has a silent motor that is not going to fail, but the 18-135 and know that its a gosh darn zoom.
Oh I know - I wouldn't fault the 18-135 for sharpness. Same as how I wouldn't fault my old 18-55. I'm just saying, most of the reviewers either complain about sharpness or reach on that lens, and I think both complaints are just a little bit silly.
02-07-2013, 10:45 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
Oh I know - I wouldn't fault the 18-135 for sharpness. Same as how I wouldn't fault my old 18-55. I'm just saying, most of the reviewers either complain about sharpness or reach on that lens, and I think both complaints are just a little bit silly.
Yes, it's not like Pentax pretends its a prime or misleads people about its length. It's clearly marked "18-135" right on the lens.

02-07-2013, 10:46 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
And use reviews don't? User reviews not only tell you about the quality, but also things like build quality, bokeh, focusing, and many other things that absolute numbers never capture. But hey, have fun buying lenses depending on mostly arbitrary number scales
C'mon, user reviews aren't biased as well? Check out how many 9's and 10's there are in the lens review section. A 10 is perfection and 9 is close to perfection. Your going to tell me all those lenses are in the same league as leica's finest?

Both type of reviews have their place and both should be taken with a huge helping of salt.
02-07-2013, 10:49 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
Only if the lens was sharp. That's the main complaint of the 18-135, that it isn't as sharp as what some users like.
The lens is sharp by the numerical criteria in the range between 20mm and 35mm.
That's the point of my comment.

Here's a quote from the notorious Photozone review
(1.5 stars for optical quality):

"The 24mm is the sweet spot of the lens.
The center performance is exceedingly high here
and the border/corner quality is much higher at max. aperture.
It even reaches very good to excellent results at medium apertures.
The field curvature has eased quite a bit as well."
02-07-2013, 10:52 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
The lens is sharp by the numerical criteria in the range between 20mm and 35mm.
That's the point of my comment.

Here's a quote from the notorious Photozone review
(1.5 stars for optical quality):

"The 24mm is the sweet spot of the lens.
The center performance is exceedingly high here
and the border/corner quality is much higher at max. aperture.
It even reaches very good to excellent results at medium apertures.
The field curvature has eased quite a bit as well."
Oh you literally meant to take the 18-135 and use the 20-35mm portion. I thought you meant if Pentax released a WR DC 20-35.
02-07-2013, 10:59 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
It's clearly marked "18-135" right on the lens.
That's the problem.
Viewed as an 18-135 lens, it cannot test well.
But if it was limited to 20-35mm,
the testers would have to rate its optics
as highly as those of the FA 20-35/4.
02-07-2013, 11:03 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
Oh you literally meant to take the 18-135 and use the 20-35mm portion.
Absolutely.

QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
I thought you meant if Pentax released a WR DC 20-35.
Well, in this sense they already have!
02-07-2013, 01:04 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
C'mon, user reviews aren't biased as well? Check out how many 9's and 10's there are in the lens review section. A 10 is perfection and 9 is close to perfection. Your going to tell me all those lenses are in the same league as leica's finest?
A 10 does not mean "its a leica!" it merely shows the users satisfaction. Thats why you read more than one review and look at a couple photos. I mean, clearly you should read reviews (and any other text) critically. Why would you think I am suggesting you just blindly believe reviews? Especially if you are actively trying to misinterpret them. All I'm saying is, those reviews give you a real world idea on how the lens will perform, whereas charts and measurements only give part of the picture.

QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
The number scales are not arbitrary, if you read them properly. (Possible exception: points used in rankings.)
But you can't compare them across systems. And they depend on the camera used. And might not apply to all conditions. And there is lens sample variation, not all copies are identical. And then it depends on the raw converter. So something like an MTF can give you a ballpark estimate, like "ok, corners are really bad," but most user reviews will tell you if that is the case anyway. Trust me, if there is a problem, some person will notice it and mention it in a review.

Last edited by Na Horuk; 02-07-2013 at 01:42 PM.
02-07-2013, 06:45 PM   #30
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I found this.
LensRentals.com - Why Aren’t the Damn Numbers the Same????
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