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02-13-2013, 10:21 PM   #16
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Thanks, Snake. Since my last post, I am a little more open to the Tamron 17-50 for the exact reasons you mention. I may just bring my point and shoot for anything longer, and if anything, to give a stranger to include me in the shot. Remember, I am likley going to have a baby strapped to my chest.LOL.

02-14-2013, 01:38 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by subidoc Quote
Thanks, Snake. Since my last post, I am a little more open to the Tamron 17-50 for the exact reasons you mention. I may just bring my point and shoot for anything longer, and if anything, to give a stranger to include me in the shot. Remember, I am likley going to have a baby strapped to my chest.LOL.
That is a possibility for wide angles, too. I used to either keep the phone (as mentioned) or use a Samsung EX1, though neither fared well in dark conditions.

There's also another issue at play here: many places in Europe don't allow photography, so make sure you scope them out first. I'm talking museums and churches and other places. Some make you pay extra, so be prepared for that.
02-15-2013, 03:14 AM   #18
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I have never had any problems photographing in a church in Europe. Museums yes, but Churches never (but some churches in Holland you need to pay a fee to get in)
02-15-2013, 05:00 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Macario Quote
I have never had any problems photographing in a church in Europe. Museums yes, but Churches never (but some churches in Holland you need to pay a fee to get in)
True, but if there are people worshiping, you should probably turn off all sounds, AF assist lamp, and AF.

02-15-2013, 05:29 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Macario Quote
I have never had any problems photographing in a church in Europe. Museums yes, but Churches never (but some churches in Holland you need to pay a fee to get in)
You may not have, but that doesn't discount the many people that do. I've outlined it on other forums and provided specific references of some churches and where photography is not allowed and certain tricks, including the fact that many guards will block a shooter with an SLR-like configured camera, but allow fully anything that looks like a point and shoot.

This is exactly the reason why many of my church pics are done with my EX1, in fact. The really don't like hearing swinging mirrors, either, particularly when worshippers are there.

Additionally, as I mentioned, some charge additional fees for photography.

Not to mention, some have old artifacts inside, just as if they were a museum, and they have that antiquated idea that a flash can destroy the artifacts.

There are many articles on this, if you're interested in disputing it. I'm simply telling the OP to be prepared. Particularly in Italy (as Europe is not one country just yet). As the finance crisis has hit, the countries hardest hit are also doing, on an increasing basis, the payment for photo permission system.
02-15-2013, 08:11 AM   #21
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Never been in a church in Italy, so wouldn't know. But in Holland, Belgium, France, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Finalnd, Austria, I haven't had any problems photographing in a church. But then again, I have never done in while people were in mass.
But I know that in Holland, for some churches you have to pay anyways to get in. Also England is getting very paranoid with photo's. many times even when you are alowed. As far as Know, all over Europe you are allowed to take photo's in public places of almost everything and everybody. (except some key strategical military buildings), Even if a building says no photograps, and you are standing outside, you are allowed to take a photo of it. Just publishing is another story, then you do need a photo permit, that you can't always do. And the last time I checked (which I have to admid is a few years ago), most churches were concidered public places, also inside. That they try to enforce other rules, is a different matter.
02-15-2013, 08:20 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Macario Quote
Never been in a church in Italy, so wouldn't know. But in Holland, Belgium, France, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Finalnd, Austria, I haven't had any problems photographing in a church. But then again, I have never done in while people were in mass.
But I know that in Holland, for some churches you have to pay anyways to get in. Also England is getting very paranoid with photo's. many times even when you are alowed. As far as Know, all over Europe you are allowed to take photo's in public places of almost everything and everybody. (except some key strategical military buildings), Even if a building says no photograps, and you are standing outside, you are allowed to take a photo of it. Just publishing is another story, then you do need a photo permit, that you can't always do. And the last time I checked (which I have to admid is a few years ago), most churches were concidered public places, also inside. That they try to enforce other rules, is a different matter.
I've had restrictions in France, particularly southern France, as well as Northern Spain, both Basque Country. I was just in Austria a little over a week ago and visited two Churches in western Austria (out of five) that had photography restrictions. I've also visited Poland and the Czech Republic and seen the restrictions there, as well. My former city in Germany had more harsh photography restrictions, too. Considering it to be a tourist city and former UNESCO site, it was somewhat odd.

It's well documented and some forums even have databases of where photography is banned and allowed. You're more than welcome to look it up.

Why you're attempting to make it into some conspiracy or a lie is beyond me. I am not an "outsider" to Europe, if that's what you're trying to go on to legitimize anything you're saying over my word. That is the assumption you're trying to go on, correct?

Last edited by snake; 02-15-2013 at 09:07 AM.
02-16-2013, 03:24 AM   #23
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Guys, guys, guys..... When I opened this thread, I did not mean for folks to be at logger heads about some perceptions. I asked for opnions, and believe me, ALL have been helpful. Everyone here delivers their point of view. There is no right or wrong in this particular arena. Could be please limit any confrontations to PMs, where anything that may even remotely come accross as firm, could be delivered outside the public's perview?

Again, you are all being very helpful to me. I have learnt quite a bit from travellers and locals - and this forum, to me, is the place to achieve this end. Keep up the good work...

02-16-2013, 04:19 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
I've had restrictions in France, particularly southern France, as well as Northern Spain, both Basque Country. I was just in Austria a little over a week ago and visited two Churches in western Austria (out of five) that had photography restrictions. I've also visited Poland and the Czech Republic and seen the restrictions there, as well. My former city in Germany had more harsh photography restrictions, too. Considering it to be a tourist city and former UNESCO site, it was somewhat odd.

It's well documented and some forums even have databases of where photography is banned and allowed. You're more than welcome to look it up.

Why you're attempting to make it into some conspiracy or a lie is beyond me. I am not an "outsider" to Europe, if that's what you're trying to go on to legitimize anything you're saying over my word. That is the assumption you're trying to go on, correct?
Well, just to add a datapoint....

Try to take a picture of the Louvre - from the outside, with your standing on the sidewalk on the opposite side of the road - with a DSLR and a tripod....then time how long it will take before you will be hassled by "security" thugs, citing a random mixture of copyright and terrorism, and threatening you with all sorts of hurt if you do not yield to his authority and make yourself scarce....

[Yes, I do live in France, no I'm not French]

Then again, I'm given to understand that also, for example, NYC is very much harassing photographers, so I guess that it all comes down to understanding local ordinances and customs - or having a good lawyer...
02-16-2013, 05:29 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by tclausen Quote
Well, just to add a datapoint....

Try to take a picture of the Louvre - from the outside, with your standing on the sidewalk on the opposite side of the road - with a DSLR and a tripod....then time how long it will take before you will be hassled by "security" thugs, citing a random mixture of copyright and terrorism, and threatening you with all sorts of hurt if you do not yield to his authority and make yourself scarce....

[Yes, I do live in France, no I'm not French]

Then again, I'm given to understand that also, for example, NYC is very much harassing photographers, so I guess that it all comes down to understanding local ordinances and customs - or having a good lawyer...
NY is the place where photographers don't get harassed. There are incidents, but I was just there, took a couple thousand pics, perhaps even as a doofist, and never was an issue. Even did it after 9/11. Often, when there is a photography issue, there's another issue at hand. I was clicking away inside subway stations, trains, etc. And I'm brown, so I would theoretically "fit the profile" and not once did I get into trouble.

But the Louvre- yes, absolutely. That area is a nightmare. Go to Pisa, where outside, the worst tourists with cameras anywhere in the world convene, but inside the buildings- good luck.

Not saying it doesn't happen, as I know it does, typically during arrests and riots/protests, but the probability is on the side of the photographer there. NYC just has too high a volume of people and tourist traffic.

Anywhere in the world, just don't be stupid and if you see trouble, don't walk into it, either. Right or wrong.

Last edited by snake; 02-16-2013 at 05:38 AM.
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