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04-18-2013, 08:06 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bcrary3 Quote
Really? I have always been told that most lenses are designed for FF and when you use the FF designed lense on APS-C you multiply by 1.5 and that give you a rough estimate on what the focal length should be. Is this wrong?
Magnification ratios don't change.

Personally I'd wait and save my pennies for the Tamron 90mm f/2.8 macro. It's a stunning lens, auto focus auto everything, and with superb image quality. Brand new it's $350, secondhand could be $250? This is a far better option than an M lens IMHO.

04-18-2013, 08:07 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bcrary3 Quote
Really? I have always been told that most lenses are designed for FF and when you use the FF designed lense on APS-C you multiply by 1.5 and that give you a rough estimate on what the focal length should be. Is this wrong?
That works, as a way of comparing the angle of view.
So a 35mm (FF or APS-C) lens used on an APS-C camera
has about the same angle of view
as a 35 x 1.5 = 52 mm lens used on a full-frame camera.

However, reproduction scales for macro lenses don't change.

A 1:2 macro lens fits a 6cm flower across 3cm of full frame image
the way it fits a 4 cm flower across 2cm of APS-C image.
04-18-2013, 08:10 PM   #18
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I have the Vivitar 55mm 2.8 macro, which is the little brother to the Panagor 90. It's a great lens, but has a long focus throw, and the 90 is even longer. I really like my Pentax 50-F4, it is buttery smooth, and it's great pentax glass. I also have the Pentax 100mm Macro f4, another great pentax lens, and they can be found for about 150 dollars. I use the 50 with tubes to get 1:1 or greater. Also makes a great walk around or street lens.
04-18-2013, 08:12 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
That works, as a way of comparing the angle of view.
So a 35mm (FF or APS-C) lens used on an APS-C camera
has about the same angle of view
as a 35 x 1.5 = 52 mm lens used on a full-frame camera.

However, reproduction scales for macro lenses don't change.

A 1:2 macro lens fits a 6cm flower across 3cm of full frame image
the way it fits a 4 cm flower across 2cm of APS-C image.
So basically magnification ratios and focusing distance do not change, but on the smaller sensor the focal length does change? So say I have a lens designed for use on a FF camera with a focal length of 50mm. On APS-C (as I stated) would in fact be 75mm (on the APS-C) sensor?

04-18-2013, 08:20 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bcrary3 Quote
Okay, as my old K-10D just sold ($550) I am in between the Panagor and the 50mm Sigma. Would $270 be worth it for the Sigma, at only 50mm (75-ish in APS-C) or the 90mm Panagor (135-ish in APS-C) I think I am opting for the Panagor just because it's cheaper, and lets face it looks pretty bad ass, but so does the Sigma.. Is AF really ever used when doing macro work?
I had the Panagor and it was awesome. I believe I sold it here for $165:



I sold it for two reasons. I found that going from 1:2 magnification to 1:1 meant a lot more work for me, and I wasn't willing to do it. And the Panagor needs three or four full turns on the focus ring to go from minimum focus distance to infinity, which takes forever. It makes it harder to use the lens for general use.

If you really want 1:1 macro and less general-purpose use, manual focus is not a problem and the Panagor works well. Because it doesn't have A contacts, flash usage is a little harder too. Flash is nice for freezing flowers on a windy day or flying bugs. You can use manual flash instead, though, and manual flash accessories are also way cheaper.
04-18-2013, 08:30 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Just1MoreDave Quote
I had the Panagor and it was awesome. I believe I sold it here for $165:



I sold it for two reasons. I found that going from 1:2 magnification to 1:1 meant a lot more work for me, and I wasn't willing to do it. And the Panagor needs three or four full turns on the focus ring to go from minimum focus distance to infinity, which takes forever. It makes it harder to use the lens for general use.

If you really want 1:1 macro and less general-purpose use, manual focus is not a problem and the Panagor works well. Because it doesn't have A contacts, flash usage is a little harder too. Flash is nice for freezing flowers on a windy day or flying bugs. You can use manual flash instead, though, and manual flash accessories are also way cheaper.
So, the Panagor is a 1:2 magnification? A few other qualities I am looking for in a macro lense is its over all use, quality, but also I am selling my 18-55mm DA 3.5-5.6 AL lense, I still have a Sigma 21-35mm 3.5-4.2 which SHOULD hold me off until I find some primes to replace the 18-55. My intended uses for a macro lense are of course, macro work, portraits, street photography (I'd like to get one BEFORE the 4th of May as I am taking a school trip to Chicago and I do not go there often), and general purpose work. The Sigma 50mm f/2.8 is a 1:1 macro, new it runs about $369ish used about $270. Auto focus and all. I have no problem with manual focus. I actually prefer it sometimes, however, AF is useful sometimes too. Would this be better for street photography, or would the Panagor (if it is 1:1) be more useful to me? Or, should I buy both?!
04-18-2013, 08:32 PM   #22
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(Sorry again for the double post completely spaced on this) Also the A contacts are no big deal to me as 9/10 times I am shooting in manual mode anyway, and the flash unit I currently have is the Pentax AF 280T
04-18-2013, 08:34 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bcrary3 Quote
So basically magnification ratios and focusing distance do not change, but on the smaller sensor the focal length does change?
No, the focal length of the lens you're using doesn't change.
What does change is the angle of view that that lens gives on the sensor.

QuoteOriginally posted by Bcrary3 Quote
So say I have a lens designed for use on a FF camera with a focal length of 50mm. On APS-C (as I stated) would in fact be 75mm (on the APS-C) sensor?
It would still be a 50mm focal length lens,
but the angle of view of that lens on APS-C
would be the same as a 75mm lens on FF.

On APS-C, it's what they call a "75mm FF equivalent."

04-18-2013, 08:39 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
No, the focal length of the lens you're using doesn't change.
What does change is the angle of view that that lens gives on the sensor.



It would still be a 50mm focal length lens,
but the angle of view of that lens on APS-C
would be the same as a 75mm lens on FF.

On APS-C, it's what they call a "75mm FF equivalent."
Okay.. That makes more sense to me. So, from what I am understanding, it will be the same focal length on APS-C but will seem like a 'longer' lens (due to the decreased AOV) like for example with my 28-300mm the EXIF data says 450mm(300mm 35mm equivalent). In short, the lens just seems longer because the angle of view is smaller?
04-18-2013, 09:41 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bcrary3 Quote
So, the Panagor is a 1:2 magnification?
No, it is 1:1. I have some shots in the album I used to sell my copy, mostly at 1:1, all handheld. What I used to do was focus the lens to its minimum distance and move the camera until my subject was in focus. A good macro tripod would be useful.
04-19-2013, 05:15 AM   #26
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Oh, well, as long as it is 1:1 I think that is what I am gonna get.. For now, haha!
04-19-2013, 07:16 AM   #27
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What I would suggest b4 paying out for a macro lens is to get either the Raynox 150 or the Raynox 250. Both are excellent clipon diopter macros. They aren't true macros but they get close enough for exploring macro photography. You can check out results in the Raynox lens club here.
The reason I suggest getting a raynox first is that many people find that macro photography is not for them, and the Raynox is an inexpensive way to explore the joys and trials of macro photography w/o spending a bundle. IIRC Adorama is offering either one at @ $70. The raynox 250 offers greater magnification, the 150 less magnification but more DOF, so it's easier to focus. The only problem with the raynox is that your lens filter diameter has to be between 52mm and 67mm. I got a 49-52mm step up ring so I can use it on my smaller 49mm lenses. I enjoy macro photography and have several macro lenses, but I frequently just drop a raynox in my pocket (it's small!) when I go out shooting. If I want a quick close up shot I just clip on the raynox w/o having the hassle of changing lenses every 10 minutes.

NaCl(raynox - an inexpensive way to explore macro photography)H2O
04-19-2013, 07:25 AM   #28
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Another function I am looking for however within a macro lense, is an ability to double over as a lense I can use for portraits, and street photography. Even at 1:1 can this be done?

I am between the Panagor (truly stunning IQ IMO) and the Sigma 50mm f/2.8 Macro

Reviews on both list great pros and cons. But I cannot decide which would be the best for macro work AND street photography and portraits.

Does the 1:1 change how something like people would be captured?
04-19-2013, 08:39 AM   #29
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@Bcrary3 I came across your posting while perusing the forums here and I just replied to your PM...let me reiterate that I would not recommend the Panagor for double duty as a street/portrait lens. The focus throw is too much to make this practical...again this is what makes it good for macro work. The raynox suggestion is a good one or alternatively as previously suggested a tamron 90mm 2.8 could perform these duties quite well. I see in your signature you have a sigma 70mm 2.8 macro...is this not practical for what you are wanting to do...I have never had a sigma 70mm macro so I cannot guess, but i do have a tamron 90mm 2.8 and for these tasks I can see it working pretty good.
04-19-2013, 08:26 PM   #30
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I sold my 70mm 2.8 as I just needed a little extra cash, and honestly I think it was a bit over priced for what it was. I just ordered a 50mm (normal/non-macro) for doing street and portrait work, and I think I am gonna get the Panagor for macro work. Honestly, it looks like it is a stunning lens. Need to to a bit of budgeting and try and finish paying off my K5 first though.
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