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06-01-2013, 08:12 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Michaelina2 Quote
Or... just get a zoom (say, 18-55, or 16-45) and use tape to hold it at your preferred FL (say, 28mm), then fire away...

Easy... Peasy... M
Ah, if only zooms has the wide f and IQ of a fast prime. We'd all have 3-4 zooms and be done with it (or one for that matter).

06-01-2013, 08:45 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Ah, if only zooms has the wide f and IQ of a fast prime. We'd all have 3-4 zooms and be done with it (or one for that matter).
So... Over the years, I've noticed lots of folks who visit this forum make that claim then after applying a little skillful pp they post examples that look pretty good. Are you suggesting the OP can't, or should not, do the same?

Cheers... M
06-01-2013, 09:07 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Ah, if only zooms has the wide f and IQ of a fast prime. We'd all have 3-4 zooms and be done with it (or one for that matter).
some folk get that chance.. Cough nikon cough

Edit BAH to "normal" !!!!!

You use focal length as a away to control depth perception.

The End.
06-01-2013, 09:22 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Michaelina2 Quote
So... Over the years, I've noticed lots of folks who visit this forum make that claim then after applying a little skillful pp they post examples that look pretty good. Are you suggesting the OP can't, or should not, do the same?

Cheers... M
That would be impressive post processing, making a lens faster via software.

06-01-2013, 09:55 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
That would be impressive post processing, making a lens faster via software.
Errrr... Do a little research. You just might be surprised.

With digital imaging, it's all about software. Software rules! Where would today's camera makers be without it providing the tools to cover their flaws?

Cheers...M
06-01-2013, 10:03 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
28 is a logical addition to the range. We have 15-21-31-35-40-43-50-55-70-77 with all but the 50 & 55 being limiteds. A 28 would be a nice addition and they have several very nice ones in the old lineup.
25 is better, IMO - closer to halfway between 21 and 31, and far closer to halfway in terms of angle of view. It's also close-enough to 24mm to make me happy on FF.
06-01-2013, 10:09 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Michaelina2 Quote
So... Over the years, I've noticed lots of folks who visit this forum make that claim then after applying a little skillful pp they post examples that look pretty good. Are you suggesting the OP can't, or should not, do the same?

Cheers... M
Whatever.
06-01-2013, 10:21 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Michaelina2 Quote
Or... just get a zoom (say, 18-55, or 16-45) and use tape to hold it at your preferred FL (say, 28mm), then fire away...

Easy... Peasy... M
I just have a habit of shooting my 28-whatever zooms at 28mm. :-D

I do have a 28mm prime, but its clunky and awkward so I avoid it when possible.

06-02-2013, 02:25 AM   #24
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I know that there are some very good zooms to cover this range. I feel that I'm learning more by shooting primes, though.

I learned to shoot on film when I was a teenager in the 80s, but had largely forgotten what I knew thanks to automatic digital cameras. I picked up my dad's AE1 Program and spent about 6 months on it last year before buying my Pentax. I've more than regained what I once knew about exposure, but I'm still a babe in the woods on photography in general. For now, I think shooting primes (and for the most part K or M primes) is keeping me from falling back into getting passable results without understanding what I'm doing.

I may feel differently some day, but I'm having a ball and learning in strides for now.
06-02-2013, 04:24 AM   #25
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Definition of "normal"

QuoteOriginally posted by troika Quote
I put an SMC-M 40 on my K5 today (didn't belong to me and I gave it back) and what appeared in my LCD looked the same as what I saw with my eyes standing on that same spot, at least from a perspective perspective.
As has been correctly mentioned before, what you see through the viewfinder is determined by the viewfinder magnification and is therefore not suitable to find out which focal lengths provides a "normal" perspective.

As you have said yourself, field of view is also not of relevance when it comes to defining what a "normal" focal length is.

The idea of a normal focal length is that it faithfully reproduces the angles and perspective proportions of the original scene when the image is watched from a "normal" viewing distance. For still photography, this "normal" viewing distance is the same as the image diagonal. Hence the focal length must be equal to the sensor diagonal (~43mm on FF, ~29mm on APS-C).

If you view your images from twice the distance, i.e., twice the image diagonal, then you need twice the focal length to see the angles and perspective proportions of the scene.

Conversely, this means that a wide-angle can be a "normal" focal length, as long as you get very close when viewing the image. Or if you stand really far away, then a telephoto lens will have the "normal" lens property.

If your favourite focal length (based on image viewing, not by judging through the viewfinder) is 40mm then you might be watching your images at ~1.4 x their image diagonal (or maybe you just prefer a slightly compressed look).

P.S.: The Sigma 28/1.8 EX is a great lens on Pentax cameras. Some find it big, but it is very versatile (very close focusing), fast, and has very decent bokeh.
06-02-2013, 04:26 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by troika Quote
I hear mathematical explanations for "normal", that I can't dispute (I'm a bear of very little brain), but in layman's terms, my own experience tells me that it's 40mm.
The first thing to do is forget "normal" - there is no norm only individual subjective perception.

Given that what is being judged as "normal" in the first place? The image as displayed in the VF, LCD, a 24" hi res monitor, an 8x10" print etc?
Is the subject a portrait 4 feet in front of you or a mountain range 20 miles away? It all makes a difference in perception.

My own opinion, for what it's worth (which may not be much), is that for any given shot there is probably an ideal FL for that particular shot so don't be shy about zooming in or out or zooming "with your feet" to get what you want.

In any case do yourself a favor and forget about some abstraction called "normal" and make your gear do what you want it to do and not try to conform to some technical abstraction.

Last edited by wildman; 06-02-2013 at 09:31 AM.
06-02-2013, 08:18 AM   #27
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Wow, very informative posts, Class A and Wildman. Thanks.

Gives me a lot to think about.
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