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06-28-2013, 12:29 AM   #1
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which lens best for swirly bokeh?

Hello guys,

i'm looking lens that can produce swirly bokeh, anyone got experience or own these are the lenses? and which is best for it?

Seagull Haiou-64 58mm F2 :$60
Helios 44-2 58mm F2 : $65
Helios 44-6 58mm F2 : $50
Helios 44-7 58mm F2 : $55
Carl Zeiss 1Q Biotar 58mm f2 (10 blades version) : $160
Carl Zeiss 1Q Biotar 58mm f2 (17 blades version) : $300 ( out of my budget )
Helios Cyclops 85mm F1.5 : $600 ( need sell my soul to buy one )

or other lens that under $200 recommend?

thank you,
Mario

06-28-2013, 02:30 AM   #2
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You could add the Primoplan 58/1.9 to the list. Great lens.
06-28-2013, 02:44 AM   #3
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ah that is good lens, thank you
06-28-2013, 03:15 AM   #4
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Any Helios 44

06-28-2013, 04:07 AM - 2 Likes   #5
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As far as I know the swirly bokeh is actually a "mistake", so high end lenses like the Biotar don't have much of it, but cheaper rip offs like the Helios 44-2 have it.
I always say the following in "swirly bokeh" threads btw: Swirly bokeh is a little overrated and its fickle - it doesn't always show up when you want it, and it sometimes shows up when you don't want it. It rarely improves the photo, sometimes makes it look worse. But there are cases where it makes a regular photo look magical, too. Its not consistent
06-28-2013, 04:25 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by ignmar Quote
Hello guys,

i'm looking lens that can produce swirly bokeh, anyone got experience or own these are the lenses? and which is best for it?

Seagull Haiou-64 58mm F2 :$60
Helios 44-2 58mm F2 : $65
Helios 44-6 58mm F2 : $50
Helios 44-7 58mm F2 : $55
Carl Zeiss 1Q Biotar 58mm f2 (10 blades version) : $160
Carl Zeiss 1Q Biotar 58mm f2 (17 blades version) : $300 ( out of my budget )
Helios Cyclops 85mm F1.5 : $600 ( need sell my soul to buy one )

or other lens that under $200 recommend?

thank you,
Mario
Surely Helios 40-2 85/1.5 is the best for swirling bokeh. Other Helioses also can sometimes.

Besides, you can buy new Helios 40-2 for about $400. The factory has started production again.
06-28-2013, 04:33 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kozlok Quote
Any Helios 44
Thank you,

QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
As far as I know the swirly bokeh is actually a "mistake", so high end lenses like the Biotar don't have much of it, but cheaper rip offs like the Helios 44-2 have it.
I always say the following in "swirly bokeh" threads btw: Swirly bokeh is a little overrated and its fickle - it doesn't always show up when you want it, and it sometimes shows up when you don't want it. It rarely improves the photo, sometimes makes it look worse. But there are cases where it makes a regular photo look magical, too. Its not consistent
yeah i knew about swirly is a defect, but i just wasn't knew about it won't show up every time

maybe i'll try the Helios 44-2 for 50buck + free adapter m42 to pk.

thank you!

QuoteOriginally posted by NoMaD_PS Quote
Surely Helios 40-2 85/1.5 is the best for swirling bokeh. Other Helioses also can sometimes.

Besides, you can buy new Helios 40-2 for about $400. The factory has started production again.
nice infomation nomad i'll try get some sample from local store for that lens i afraid they change something so make that defect go away. thank you
06-28-2013, 08:04 AM   #8
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Series 1 Vivitar 28mm f1.9



06-28-2013, 09:37 AM   #9
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I'm not sure what is meant by swirly bokeh. Are these examples? I like this bokeh.

Kiron 28mm @ f2




Last edited by audiobomber; 06-28-2013 at 09:47 AM.
06-28-2013, 02:16 PM - 1 Like   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
I'm not sure what is meant by swirly bokeh. Are these examples? I like this bokeh.

Kiron 28mm @ f2
wow nice bokeh that will be one great effect that will be on my next list thank you..

this is what i mean swirly or spining bokeh.

he used Minolta MC Rokkor PF 50mm F1.7. unfortunately i can't get any Minolta to PK mount adapter.
06-28-2013, 05:41 PM - 1 Like   #11
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The Helios will do that. You do need to know that the swirly only gets that extreme with bokeh just like that. If the background has lines or is unstructured, then no swirl. It's really not that easy to get, but you can get it.
06-28-2013, 06:50 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kozlok Quote
The Helios will do that. You do need to know that the swirly only gets that extreme with bokeh just like that. If the background has lines or is unstructured, then no swirl. It's really not that easy to get, but you can get it.
yap i just bought a Helios 44-2 in mint condition i'll try it this weekend. thank you kozlok
06-28-2013, 10:05 PM - 1 Like   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
As far as I know the swirly bokeh is actually a "mistake", so high end lenses like the Biotar don't have much of it
This is essentially true, although I have seen plenty of Biotar shots that are swirly (Flickr search on "Biotar"). I have been told it is due to slight deviance in the spacing of the elements. Some designs are simply more prone and it is not limited to 35mm camera optics. One of the most amazing examples I have seen came from a medium format negative (Zeiss optic for Hasselblad, I believe).

Here is a particularly sweet swirly Biotar 75/1.5 (famous portrait lens) image:





Steve


(BTW...Biotar is a Zeiss lens design specification and was available in multiple focal lengths and several different mounts. The key characteristic is consistently sharp center resolution at all apertures. The edges...not so good...)

(Also noteworthy...if you don't know it already...the Helios 44 series lenses are derived from the Zeiss Biotar and some of the earlier versions are faithful reproductions. The USSR was granted the Zeiss works and technology as reparations for their WWII losses and for some years after, there was a general sharing to technology from Jena to their "friends" to the east. The Helios 40-2, while an interesting lens does not share that heritage. It is a soviet design and was originally intended to photograph oscilloscope screens.)

Last edited by stevebrot; 06-28-2013 at 10:26 PM.
04-07-2015, 04:09 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kozlok Quote
Any Helios 44
Not any.
Helios44, Helios44-2, Helios44M, Helios44M3 has more svirly bokeh, because of 8 leafs of iris.
Helios44M-4, -5, -6, -7 has only 6 leafs of iris, but better optical resolution and better MC couting.
04-07-2015, 08:51 AM   #15
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definitely the Helios 44-2 for swirling

you can eliminate the 44M-7 as that will not swirl at all.

Vivitar Series 1 28/1.9 has a wacky wide open bokeh but does not actually have the spin effect, nevertheless looks cool with the right background.

Steve, that Biotar example is crazy!
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