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07-11-2013, 07:44 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Also suspect the DA 120-380 to have this and be WR. It is the natural complement to the 18-135mm.
.
I suspect this lens to be more high-end than a natural complement for the 18-135. Maybe it is a Pentax HD lens like the 560....?
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07-11-2013, 08:18 AM - 1 Like   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
I suspect this lens to be more high-end than a natural complement for the 18-135. Maybe it is a Pentax HD lens like the 560....?
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Perhaps. Pentax is lacking an "affordable" long zoom with better performance than the 55-300 and WR.

When I see the 120-380 proposed spec compared to the US$1,699 Canon EF 100-400, I think I see Pentax chipping away at the long and short FL to get the price and size down compared to Canon's sewer pipe. So I would not be surprised to see a DC/WR lens of this type in the US$1,000-US$1,200 price range.

This is precisely how one chips away at Canikon; with an 18-135 WR/DC and a 120mm+ long zoom, also WR and DC, all with better quality, IBIS, and lower price. You could get superlative performance from Pentax with only 2 lenses both designed for ruggedness. You cannot get that with Canikon unless you spend much, much more $$$.

A lot will depend on the aperture and TC adaptability. Of course just speculating.

This is why I think we've not seen the 55-300 in a WR version. For those whom the 60-250 is too much $$ for the lesser reach (needs a TC that one) then a 120-380 would be ideal. I cannot see any new 'outdoor' lens not being WR. There's a good sized market for a single long zoom, much more than for the 200/300 bought separately and certainly the 560 (itself looking like a kludge between the Canon EF 500/600's and same same Nikon's).
07-11-2013, 08:34 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
DC motor has limits. It's just not powerfull enough to power the big lenses.
I've heard that before but I don't believe it. If a DC motor is powerful enough for a 560mm, it should be good enough for any other lens possibility discussed in this thread.

QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
In theory I agree. I'll simply add that a fully usable f3.2 is better than a worthless f2.
I completely agree.

QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
FA77...
The FA 77 serves a different population. Small, sleek, fast, compact, and all-metal. Something like a DA* 85 would be more like the FA* 85, but with newer features. Big, fast, Quickshift, WR. Two very different lenses and new lenses like the DA* 24, 85, and 135 would compliment the DA* 55 and fill a very large gap in the Pentax prime lineup.
07-11-2013, 08:34 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Pentax is lacking an "affordable" long zoom with better performance than the 55-300 and WR.
Better performances calls for something like the 60-250. The 55-300 is probably as good as it can be considering its aperture, size and price.

07-11-2013, 08:48 AM   #35
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While good high ISO performance does make up for lack of faster lenses, like previously mentioned, some cheap fast lenses can be a 'marketing tool'. You can see most of the people's eyes open up when they see that F-stop number is 1.8 or 1.4 regardless of the actual build quality.

Otoh, most of the lenses don't perform optimally until it's stopped down a little anyway, so f2.4 or f2.8 lenses to me are more like f3.2-f4.
07-11-2013, 09:24 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
Better performances calls for something like the 60-250. The 55-300 is probably as good as it can be considering its aperture, size and price.
There's a gap between a 55-300 lens @US$400 and a 100-400 @US$1699.

Lots of price room there. Pentax used to make 100-300mm affordable zooms on 135. And they sold well at f4.7-5.8 which is even more viable now in the days of TAv and high-ISO sensors.
07-11-2013, 09:34 AM   #37
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If Pentax made a 135-400 DC WR, and had it at a price point in the 600-800 range it would be awesome. If they had something like a DA* 24mm f/1.4 I think I would have my main convention lens. I know that would be heavy, but I really wouldn't care.
07-11-2013, 11:49 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by VoiceOfReason Quote
If Pentax made a 135-400 DC WR, and had it at a price point in the 600-800 range it would be awesome. If they had something like a DA* 24mm f/1.4 I think I would have my main convention lens. I know that would be heavy, but I really wouldn't care.
24mm/1.4 = $1,549. And it vignettes terribly,also being very soft in the corners at 1.4-5.6.

Canon EF 24mm f/1.4L II USM Autofocus Lens 2750B002 B&H Photo

Add more for a WR version from Pentax. People on this board keep asking for $1,500 - $3,000 lenses with all sorts of compromises inherent in achieving those aperture values!

Canon EF 24mm f/1.4 USM L - Review / Test Report - Sample Images & Verdict

Then they complain it's not a pancake lens.

I doubt you'd see a long tele at sub-$1,000 like that, but there certainly is room for a sub-$1,700 option. Pentax is loaded with mid-zooms and shy on the long and no WR on the wide.

But both of these options—a decent priced prosumer zoom and a WR wide to maybe replace the 12-24—are most likely to be APS-C only. The most likely reason why Pentax lens development has stalled is probably,in part, due to uncertainty about the APS-C price point and total system costs due to FF.

Those looking for faster primes than the DA Ltd's will not get them from Pentax. They are no on the road map because they are no being considered, not until they get a FF body out into market willing to pay for those $2,000 bodies and $1,200 lenses. How many people on this board will pony up for a DFA 24/2 at US$1199?

07-11-2013, 11:55 AM   #39
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I was thinking more along the lines of the 24 f/1.4 Samyang version, no need for WR, but autofocus. I wouldn't care whether DC or screwdrive.
07-11-2013, 12:12 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Lots of price room there. Pentax used to make 100-300mm affordable zooms on 135. And they sold well at f4.7-5.8 which is even more viable now in the days of TAv and high-ISO sensors.
What's the point of a 100-300 f4,7-f5.8 (which I did own) when you have a better 55-300 in your lineup? The 55-300 is as good as can be expected given that it's a consumer zoom. It's better than the entry-level 50-200. But it's not as good, large, fast than the pro-level 60-250. I don't see how another zoom could fit between those two. A constant f4,7 55-300? Not likely. A WR 55-300? Why not, but optically it won't be different. There's just no point in making an incremental upgrade to fit poorly between the two.

QuoteOriginally posted by builttospill Quote
Something like a DA* 85 would be more like the FA* 85, but with newer features. Big, fast, Quickshift, WR.
WR, if only that, makes a lot of sense.
07-11-2013, 12:22 PM   #41
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I think that photography is not only about resolution and optical perfection. High speed lenses has their use. After I bought a 70-200mm f2.8 I had discovered a lot of new possibilities. I don't want to make a list, because it will not be complet. And recently, a friend of mine show me what kind of bokeh can be obtained with a 50mm f1:1.2.

When Pentax will have at least two thirds of Canon range of lenses, it will be considered a real competitor on the market, and every user will find what kind of lenses is appropriate for him. But it's a long way ahead. A road which can be shorten, because their are a lot of old Pentax lenses which can be updated with modern low dispersion glass, and SDM.

Last edited by JimmyDranox; 07-11-2013 at 01:46 PM.
07-11-2013, 04:51 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
There's just no point in making an incremental upgrade to fit poorly between the two.
We were talking of the 120-380 or 400 to complement the DA 18-135 WR. It's on the road map. If the Canon 100-400 is $1,700 then Pentax knocking a bit off the end FL appears to be aiming at a lower price point, something that straddles the DA*'s and the 55-300. We're still looking at variable aperture.
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