[gsrokmix]

Hi,

I'm looking to get a good long lens for some wildlife photography. I have read many threads on the DA 300, FA 300, and others such as the Tokina 400 5.6, and the Tamron 60B. I'm looking for a little guidance from those who have used hopefully a couple of these lenses. I have been leaning towards the Tamron 60B as it's an f2.8 lens, and is in my price range. I also have the 1.7x AF adapter, and I've read that these 2 make a pretty good combination. I understand that the Tamron is considerably bigger than either of the Pentax lenses I mentioned above. I guess hand holding is not so much a concern as overall sharpness, and low light capabilties.

I was also wondering if anyone who has owned the Tamron 60B can comment on the IQ with using the Tamron 1.4 or 2X TC's that were available for these lenses. I also own the DA 55-300, and I think that lens would serve me for most casual shooting, hence my lack of concern about the weight of a prime 300 or 400 lens.

I have read many mixed reviews of the older SMC 300's, 400's, and 500's. I don't know if they should be on my list or not?

If I were to get either the DA 300 or the FA 300, do these lenses work well with the 1.7x AF adapter?

My budget at this point is around $1000, so the options I outlined above all seem doable. I would also, if possible, like to have a FF lens just in case they ever release a FF body. I can't remember if the DA 300 will work on a FF or not.

I appreciate any thoughts or advice.

Thanks!

George

[nomadkng]

Sigma 100-300 f4

It's comparable to the FA* and DA* 300 in IQ, but zoom gives more flexibility.

I've used it with Sigma 2x, Sigma 1.4x and Vivitar 1.4x TC. I'd say very little IQ loss

It's FF, but discontinued. It's in your price range. If you can find one. Get it

I have the Sigma, my GF has the DA 55-300. Let's just say she wants a Sigma for Xmas/B-day/Mother's Day or any other excuse she can come up.

[kenafein]

The Da*300 does cover the FF image circle. I will profess my love for the Sigma 100-300/4, but I never tried it with birds. The sad part is that you can buy the lens and a D3200 for the price the lens commands in K-mount. You also get HSM, which would be important for birds.

[Miguel]

How serious about photographing birds (and other animals) in the wild are you?

If you are going to stay with Pentax (and at a certain dollar point the business case is weak as kenafein aptly notes) get something that has fast AF. I question whether your 1.7x AF adapter would perform quickly enough for birds in the wild (birds hangin' at mom's feeder in the backyard doesn't count as "wildlife" to me). Just about all the current Pentax TC solutions are very slow when compared with Canon (probably Nikon too, but I don't have experience with the Nikon brand in that context).

With your budget I wouldn't consider a non-AF lens; manual focus can work of course, but the percentage of keepers with a modern AF system (read: non-Pentax) is much higher and thus a more satisfying use of one's time and tools.

M

[gsrokmix]

I hadn't considered or looked at any zooms. I will check out info on the Sigma. I have heard very good things about it.

Miguel, have you used the Tamron w/ the 1.7x af adapter? is the focus that slow? I've used it on shorter lenses, not trying tocapture animals though.

[Miguel]

Miguel, have you used the Tamron w/ the 1.7x af adapter?

No I have not. Just from my years of shooting I would image it a long slow march to turn that heavy old-style hardware via an old-style AF TC. An f2.8 long lens has a lot of heavy glass.

Again, it depends on what you are trying to photograph. Some birds, like shore birds and herons, are relatively large and slow and they don't tax an AF system all that much. The heavy weight may hinder other aspects of getting the shot though. That lens is 5 lbs, plus the TC. Umph! When I'm out in the field it's for hours and hours, hiking and shooting miles. The 3 lbs of my Canon 100-400mm on a 7D is approaching my maximum. All the shooters I know who use the 500mm lens that weighs about 7lbs have developed side-stooped backs over the years from shlepping that thing. I'm just not that good a wildlife photographer to make that weight worth it.

Something to think about.

M

[nater]

Just from my years of shooting I would image it a long slow march to turn that heavy old-style hardware via an old-style AF TC. An f2.8 long lens has a lot of heavy glass.

If the OP has a Pentax 1.7x AF teleconverter, it doesn't have an AF connection to a lens at all, just to the camera body. An attached lens (even an AF one) will no longer AF, but the adapter will. You need to do some manual focus to get the lens close to the focus point, and then you can use the camera body AF to move the elements in the adapter to focus the rest of the way.

[dadipentak]

The Tamron 60B is a good lens: quite sharp, 2.8 really is a plus, requires at least a monopod and prone to ca. Good with the 1.7x
The DA*300 is very good & easy to handle; a 'pod is recommended but not essential; great with the 1.7x in good light.
The Tokina is not as sharp but compact.& very easy to handle Not good with a TC.

[gsrokmix]

I've been reading up all evening and the concensus is that the Tamron with the AFA produces quite a bit of ca & pf until stopped way down. A lot of folks seem to really love the DA 300, and say it's good with the AFA as well. I understand it also covers the FF circle. Starting at F4 and then losing another couple of stops from the AFA seems like you'd slways have to shoot at ISO 400 or 800 except if out during a bright day?

I wish I knew someone with either so I could check them out. Could probably rent the DA, but not sure I want to spend the extra money to test it.

[dadipentak]

At 300+ you're faced with compromises. All factors considered (including your budget) I think the DA* is your best bet.

[snostorm]

Hi gsrokmix,

I'll add my 2¢ here if you don't mind.

I'm primarily a birder with about 8 yrs of experience with Pentax DSLRs with that use in mind.

Let's go through the options you listed, and one other mentioned.

FA*300 f4.5 -- Excellent performing lens. Screw Drive AF only. Still works well with the F 1.7x AFA though the effective max aperture with the AFA is f7.7 -- AF will work reliably down to pretty dim overcast -- a bit darker than when you stop seeing shadows. This is the lightest weight alternative mentioned. The f4.5 max aperture allows use of a 67mm front element, and AF/MF switching on the lens is accomplished by pulling/pushing the focus ring back/forward with the ring in any position. I've had this lens for about 7 years, and it's my most used lens -- usually with the AFA -- There is no OEM tripod ring/foot for this lens, but I've found a couple of tripod rings that work with it -- I shoot it 97% handheld, even with the AFA. The screw drive AF allows this lens to AF with any KAF 1.4x TC that can mount to the lens (apparently the Sigma EX 1.4x APO DG TC will not mount, but the Sigma EX 1.4x APO will -- I can personally attest to this latter -- I have one).

DA* 300 f4. -- Slightly sharper than the FA* -- 1/3 stop faster (not much really) but that means it needs a 77mm front element, so it's a bit heavier. SDM AF only (though it has a screw drive mechanism -- Pentax doesn't allow the user to use it unless the body is not SDM compatible). Since SDM compatible SDM bodies ID the lens as SDM, screw drive AF TCs will not AF with the DA*, and PZ TCs (that have the same contact riser) will power the AF motor in the lens, but AF is very slow and unreliable from my experience. There is a 1.4x SDM projected from Pentax, but it's been literally several years since they first suggested that one is in the works, and we haven't seen anything yet, so I'm not holding my breath. The 1.7x AFA will work well with this lens. This lens also includes a tripod mount and is currently pretty easily available either new or used. The dA* also has a very close Minimum Focusing Distance of @ 4 feet. The rest of these lenses focus to about 6 ft -- the Tamron 60B is @ 8 ft.

Sigma EX 100-300 f4 -- an excellent lens. Easily in the same IQ class as the prime alternatives and better IQ than all other 300mm alternatives but the F*, FA*, and DA* Pentaxes IMO. The differences between these first three are really pixel peeping differences -- I doubt that anyone could actually distinguish between them from prints. This lens does have the versatility of it's zoom range, but you pay a weight and size penalty of about 1 lb, so this is a 3+ lb lens compared to the Pentax primes which are both close to 2 lbs. This would not make much difference if you prefer to shoot from stationary positions, but I usually shoot opportunistically, so I wander around a lot, and carrying an extra pound on the end of my camera and swinging it up and around makes a big difference for me during the course of a day in the field. This lens comes with a removable tripod collar.

Tamron SP 300 f2.8 mdl 60B Adaptall 2. This is a great lens. The f2.8 max aperture allows for stacked TCs if even more reach is desired. With the AFA and a good 1.4x TC, you can get a very serviceable 714mm f6.7 AF lens. With the AFA alone, it's a very good 510mm f4.8. The lens is sharp at f2.8, but gains a bit from stopping down. Yes, it does not control CA and PF as well as more modern lenses, but if given the choice between getting a shot and dealing with some color aberration in PP and not getting a usable shoT, I'll deal with the CA/PF. If you want a 300mm f2.8 lens for Pentax that controls CA/PF better, then you have two choices -- A sigma EX 300/2.8 APO, or the FA* 300/2.8, at least $2K or at least $3K respectively used. They both are also a touch sharper, but my Sigma is not as contrasty wide open (it's a pre DG version), and the FA* is pretty much of a beast -- yes, I own and use all three.

My goto kit is a K-5 or K-5IIs with the FA* 300 f4.5 + 1.7x AFA. I use the AFA a lot, so the MF prefocus is second nature to me, and AF with this combo is very quick and efficient, and refocus is extremely efficient since the AFA works as a focus limiter. When the DA* 300/4 came out, I tried one and was impressed, but decided to stick with my FA* because the differences weren't enough to pop another $1K+ in my mind. Some say that the screw drive motor sound scares away birds, but I have not found this to be the case, and I usually shoot close -- within 15 ft if I can.

BTW, I've never wanted a 400mm f5.6 since I always seem to want more reach, and f5.6 is really too slow to get AF with any TC since the limit for AF is somewhere around f8. With an f5.6 max aperture lens, a 1.4x TC will give you an effective max aperture of f8, and anything above 1.4x will put you into the no AF very dim VF range. It should be noted that the K-5 and K-5IIs will AF with lenses with effective apertures slower than f8, but it's touchy, needs a lot of light/contrast, and is pretty unreliable in general. For practical use, I don't go there.

Scott

[gsrokmix]

Thanks guys for the excellent & thorough information. So I guess at this point it may be a toss up between the DA* 300 & The Tamron. The AF & lower weight w/ the Pentax seems to go a long way. There are a lot of things I am drawn to about the Tamron though. Maybe it will end up being a matter of what type of 60B I can find verses the more readily available DA.

More thinking to do I suppose.

Thanks again!

[lesmore49]

I have used a Pentax 55-300 and a Sigma 150-500.

I know many feel the 55-300 is just a consumer lens, but I've had some very good results with it. My best results have been stationary birds of prey I've encountered in forest areas. However I have a fairly good photo's of Great Horned Owls, Bald Eagles and some American White Pelicans in flight.

My Sigma is rather new and I haven't had much opportunity to use it with birds. However I have used it for capturing fast moving drag racing cars in action and the AF nails these subjects with very sharp regularity.

It's heavy (Sigma) though.

[derekkite]

I've been through quite a few long lenses, have a few kicking around. The question you need to answer is how much light is there where you shoot. I'll list what I've used and what I think of them.

1.7 pentax AF teleconverter. I tried this on a 107b tamron, the one previous to the 60b. It didn't work very well for me. I sold it. I couldn't get sharp images out of it no matter what I used it with.

107b. This is a f2.8 300mm manual focus. Not that good, soft and very prone to CA. Oddly with the 1.4 tc it is almost as sharp as my 400mm f4.

400mm f4 tamron. Quite a nice lens, easy to focus. I think the 60b compares. Expect to shoot at F8 to get decent results. In bright light F11 +. I found that in low light you could use it wide open, but as it got brighter I had to close the aperture to get decent results, meaning that the shutter speed/iso stayed about the same.

DA*300. Very nice lens, very sharp. If only it was longer. Cropping gives you good reach, but there is an almost hard limit of distance at which the results are good. I've had focus issues with mine on my K5, am about to send the body and lens in to sort out an intermittant problem. Sharp wide open, which is really nice in low light.

sigma 150-500mm os. Very nice handling lens. The extra reach allows subjects to fill more of the focus window on my k5, getting better results. Needs to be f8-11 to be sharp. Available used here in quantity for a decent price. The OS is very nice on a long lens, also helps with focus. Not as sharp as the DA*300, but past the hard limit of distance that the DA*300 has, will give you a bit better results. When tracking birds in flight, having that extra magnification allows the focus on the K5 to work much better. The 300mm DA* will be a challenge to focus where the 150-500 will follow like a rail. That seems to be that hard limit of distance.

Pentax 55-300. Ok at f8. The focus drives me nuts, sounds like a chainsaw in my ear when it hunts back and forth. One of the few lenses that I was tempted to throw as far as possible. But for the price, stopped down, very reasonable IQ.

The tamron 1.4 tc is very very nice. Very little degradation of IQ on any of the tamron lenses that I have used it with.

Tamron adaptall. If you shoot any amount, you will be frustrated with the PKA adapter. It works fine, but is fussy and unreliable. These are big lenses to hang off of a flimsy adapter. I went through a few, then got a cheap solid no mechanism PK from ebay. You set your aperture with the ring, and the body meters and acts like AV mode. You can change the iso. In low light you need to open the aperture to focus, then stop down to shoot.

What else have I tried?
The Sigma 170-500 is a wonderful handling lens. Light, long, focuses quickly. But it is soft. If only it was sharp, I wouldn't use anything else.
Tamron 60-300. I think that is the short focal length. You can pick these up for less than $100. Very sharp, very nice handling lens. Not fast enough for manual focus in light that isn't bright.

A warning. If you get serious about this, you will be buying a Sigma 500 f4.5.

[dadipentak]

A warning. If you get serious about this, you will be buying a Sigma 500 f4.5

It happens.