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09-03-2013, 08:34 AM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by kh1234567890 Quote
Some strange pricing here in the UK, SRS Micro are listing the new red stripe DA35 macro Ltd at 639, as opposed to the old green stripe one at 369. Weird.
Numeric dyslexia?

09-03-2013, 08:41 AM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by MrB1 Quote
I wonder if the HD coating will make a noticeable difference ... 1...that can be seen in normal viewing (rather than pixel peeping) on an LCD monitor, or in prints up to A3, viewed from a sensible distance... and/or 2. that cannot be reproduced in post processing. It will be interesting to see the comparison reviews.
My understanding is that HD is just more consistent in the manufacturing process.
So there may be observable differences compared to a lens with badly done SMC,
but not compared to a lens with good SMC.

This raises a more general question:
Will HD or "nano" lenses be less subject to variation?

Put another way,
how much of the copy variation we have seen so far
has been due to variation in the coatings
(as opposed to issues like element alignment)?
09-03-2013, 11:59 AM - 1 Like   #93
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Yes, yes ,yes

QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
My understanding is that HD is just more consistent in the manufacturing process.
So there may be observable differences compared to a lens with badly done SMC,
but not compared to a lens with good SMC.

This raises a more general question:
Will HD or "nano" lenses be less subject to variation?

Put another way,
how much of the copy variation we have seen so far
has been due to variation in the coatings
(as opposed to issues like element alignment)?
The DA 15 was known to be a high resolution corner to corner champ and also a myopic blur fest. It really was a hit or miss purchase game. Please improve your QC along with your lens coatings and while you are at it, state for the record that the SDM mechanism has been fixed. Show that by offering a warranty that lasts longer than one year.
09-03-2013, 12:05 PM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by djc737 Quote
The DA 15 was known to be a high resolution corner to corner champ and also a myopic blur fest. It really was a hit or miss purchase game. Please improve your QC along with your lens coatings and while you are at it, state for the record that the SDM mechanism has been fixed. Show that by offering a warranty that lasts longer than one year.
  1. One of the supposed strengths Ricoh brings to Pentax is manufacturing expertise, which one assumes means quality control
  2. Ana dditional two years of warranty can be purchased on some items for $29 in the USA - which I prefer to be given the choice to do or not do. Otherwise everyone has to pay $xx more for each lens or camera so they are all warranted for three years whether you want it or not.
  3. SDM - who knows?


09-03-2013, 03:14 PM   #95
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My big disappointment here was that they didn't update the 43 Ltd. When I heard the news about the coating I was hoping I could pick up on of the older versions on the cheap. SMC is no slouch, for the right price I can surely put on a hood and maybe not shoot straight into the sun...
09-03-2013, 03:35 PM   #96
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I have the DA15 and DA40 and I think my lens buying days are on hiatus for a while. I've assembled 2 kits of pretty good glass and unless the new DA15 just absolutely blows the socks off the old DA15 I see no reason to spend the money to change.

The one caveat would be if the gf decides she can't stand the Sigma 10-20 anymore and wants a DA15, then she'll get my old one. Though I might still pick up an older version since there's bound to be a flood of them in the Marketplace soon from all who have to have the latest toy.

I guess it still comes down to the HD lens being quantifiably BETTER than the SMC version to justify the purchase. It's not like I'm upgrading from a kit lens to a new HD DA15.

Second caveat,,,, IF the new HD DA15 was actually FF compatible, I would consider it, as well. The DA15/Sigma 10-20/DA55-300 are the only non FF lenses I own, so if Pentax came out with FF and I upgraded in 3-5 years, I'd have to replace them anyway. FA15 anyone???
09-03-2013, 04:42 PM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
My understanding is that HD is just more consistent in the manufacturing process.
Is this "understanding" based on anything you can share? I'm not sure if it's even legal to tighten up QC, then literally announce an existing product as a new, improved product, and raise your prices as such. In the event that you are correct, what would have been the deal with the display in which they showed "both" coatings side-by-side, as thought they existed in the real world?

I respectfully disagree with you. I don't believe they would announce that their current coating is a new coating, then make a fake physical display and press releases declaring it all.
09-03-2013, 07:23 PM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
  1. One of the supposed strengths Ricoh brings to Pentax is manufacturing expertise, which one assumes means quality control
  2. Ana dditional two years of warranty can be purchased on some items for $29 in the USA - which I prefer to be given the choice to do or not do. Otherwise everyone has to pay $xx more for each lens or camera so they are all warranted for three years whether you want it or not.
  3. SDM - who knows?
Yes, I know you can get third party warranties for the lenses but I want the warranty from Pentax. Then I would know that they had to have fixed all the suspect quality problems. Without that, they are saying to me, at least, buy at your own risk.

09-04-2013, 09:26 AM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by fuent104 Quote
Is this "understanding" based on anything you can share?
"The HD PENTAX coating reduces reflection by 50% over the visible spectrum of light when compared to traditional lens coatings. The high packing density and robust bonds amongst the coating materials imparts high rigidity to the layer of coating. Conventional coating methods deliver uneven coating that impacts image quality. This is because of the vacuum evaporation method of coating deposition employed. The HD coating from PENTAX however, adapts a PENTAX specific manufacture process that imparts coating layer thickness control at nanometer level."

PENTAX Launches HD Coating Technology for Its Lenses


QuoteOriginally posted by fuent104 Quote
I'm not sure if it's even legal to tighten up QC, then literally announce an existing product as a new, improved product, and raise your prices as such. In the event that you are correct, what would have been the deal with the display in which they showed "both" coatings side-by-side, as thought they existed in the real world?

I respectfully disagree with you. I don't believe they would announce that their current coating is a new coating, then make a fake physical display and press releases declaring it all.
They are announcing a new process that supposedly gives more consistent results than the old process,
not just giving a new name to an old process with improved quality control.
09-04-2013, 11:09 AM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by fuent104 Quote
I'm not sure if it's even legal to tighten up QC, then literally announce an existing product as a new, improved product, and raise your prices as such. In the event that you are correct, what would have been the deal with the display in which they showed "both" coatings side-by-side, as thought they existed in the real world?
Sure it is. Pentax didn't introduce the SMC all at once. There are numerous "transition" Super Takumars with double coating, triple coating, or even actual protoype Super Multi Coating. They are not specifically marked as such, but are an example of exactly that kind of incremental improvement you are describing.

Frankly it's even legal to go to the new process on all the lenses, measure the evenness of the coating, and bin them into "HD" and "SMC" grade lenses. This is how we get CPUs and GPUs - the chips that turn out really well and clock highly get marked as premium chips, the others get sold as lower grade.

Last edited by Paul MaudDib; 09-04-2013 at 11:20 AM.
09-04-2013, 11:11 AM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by djc737 Quote
Yes, I know you can get third party warranties for the lenses but I want the warranty from Pentax. Then I would know that they had to have fixed all the suspect quality problems. Without that, they are saying to me, at least, buy at your own risk.
The additional warranty is a Pentax extension of the Pentax Warranty, not a Mack or private provider.
09-04-2013, 01:57 PM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by Paul MaudDib Quote
Sure it is. Pentax didn't introduce the SMC all at once. There are numerous "transition" Super Takumars with double coating, triple coating, or even actual protoype Super Multi Coating. They are not specifically marked as such, but are an example of exactly that kind of incremental improvement you are describing. Frankly it's even legal to go to the new process on all the lenses, measure the evenness of the coating, and bin them into "HD" and "SMC" grade lenses. This is how we get CPUs and GPUs - the chips that turn out really well and clock highly get marked as premium chips, the others get sold as lower grade.
QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
"The HD PENTAX coating reduces reflection by 50% over the visible spectrum of light when compared to traditional lens coatings
If you two are correct, I would consider that to be pretty dirty business. Clearly, the intention is to lead the reader to believe that this is, in fact, a new coating. The release ALSO states that it is applied using a new process. However, I have no doubt that their goal is for the reader to walk away thinking that an entirely new coating product has been created, which has been applied through a new process. If this not their goal, the writing is clumsy. I will give them the benefit of the doubt, though, and assume the writing conveys what it is intended to convey.
09-04-2013, 02:43 PM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by fuent104 Quote
Clearly, the intention is to lead the reader to believe that this is, in fact, a new coating. The release ALSO states that it is applied using a new process.
Read the patents. It is a new coating and it is applied using a new wet process. At least some of the layers are.
09-04-2013, 04:29 PM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by kh1234567890 Quote
Read the patents. It is a new coating and it is applied using a new wet process. At least some of the layers are.
Thanks.
10-08-2013, 02:03 AM   #105
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I've been considering another limited to go with my DA 15 for a while now but couldnt decide between the 40 and 70. Now that I finally decided I opted for a HD 40 instead of the now slightly cheaper SMC 40, but I wont be upgrading my 15 to a HD one, id rather put that money towards the 70.
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