Use da 70mm 2.4 and crop or buy zoom?

Lautrec · 09-19-2013, 08:49 AM

Two questions really - first for shooting indoor sports would my da 70mm 2.4 prime lens photos be as good as a larger zoom if I crop them?

Second question - looking to upgrade my k200d to either k-5 or k-5 IIs. Which is better? Is it worth price difference?

Na Horuk · 09-19-2013, 09:54 AM

The problem with zoom lenses is that they rarely go faster than f4 above 70mm. Some go f2.8, but even that is not as bright as the 70mm f2.4. A constant-aperture zoom lens that has a bright f-stop at the tele length might be expensive. Maybe a 135mm prime lens would be a better choice? The thing with cropping is that it can be really great, but it kind of depends on the camera. Some cameras have too much noise or too little MP for significant cropping.

K-5 vs. K-5IIs.. well, there are a couple threads with differences. The K-5II and IIs have an improved AF module, especially for low light. So this might be important to you. And the II vs. IIs.. the II is regular, the IIs is a little sharper due to lack of AA filter.

JinDesu · 09-19-2013, 10:01 AM

Well that depends on how zoomed you want to get vs your 70mm. I crop all the time with my Sigma 50 F1.4, sometimes from 12MP (my k-x) down to 1MP sometimes (4288x2848 to 1200x800). I think that's pretty much a 3.5x ratio.

**Lowell Goudge** · 09-19-2013, 10:08 AM

Let's start with what you want to print/view. What size specifically.

2MPimage can print 4 x 6 easily and 8" x 10" if you don't inspect with a magnifier especially if you upscale with linear interpolation

How much do you want to crop?

Are you going to shoot wide open or stop down?

How much light.

Also a newer body like the K5 has far superior high ISO, but i shot lots of indoor stuff with my *istD so you can do it, just expect grain.

The best option is likely a 70-200/2.8 but be prepared to pay

DSims · 09-19-2013, 10:11 AM

The FA135 has very fast focusing and is ideal for sports. It's great in combination with the faster focusing of the K-5 IIs. You'll notice a significant difference over your K200D.

Lautrec · 09-19-2013, 10:35 AM

Typically crop nearly half image out - print no larger than 11 x 14.

thornburg · 09-19-2013, 10:35 AM

The "traditional" sports lens is a 70-200/2.8 (or 70-210/2.8 or 80-200/2.8 or 80-210/2.8).

The Tamron and Sigma versions both have a pretty decent reputation.

The DA* 50-135/2.8 might be worth a mention, but it doesn't have quite the same reach.

If you're on a lower budget, the DA 55-300 is probably a good choice for reach, but you'll miss that wide aperture...

A K-5/K-5II/K-5IIs (or even a K-30/K-50) will be a HUGE step up from your K200d.

According to DxO ratings, the K-5 IIs is 30% better image quality and 1.1 f-stops better in low light. It also has higher dynamic range, shoots faster, etc, etc, etc. Those are vs. K200d. As far as K-5 vs K-5 ii/iis, I think that depends on the price difference. I haven't personally used either camera, but most specs are very similar.

jimr-pdx · 09-19-2013, 11:00 AM

If you aren't using a tripod the DA70 will definitely give steadier images due to its size, and images are very good wide open when speed is vital. As to cropping, it works for me but I don't crop deeply nor do I make large prints, so that one is user-dependent.

VisualDarkness · 09-19-2013, 12:38 PM

Note that focal lenght not only affect the angle of view you capture, it also (actually mainly) affects perspective,

**Lowell Goudge** · 09-19-2013, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by VisualDarkness

Note that focal lenght not only affect the angle of view you capture, it also (actually mainly) affects perspective,

No that's wrong. Shooting distance changes perspective, not focal length, the reason you think focal length impacts perspective is that you move closer with shorter lenses to get magnification.

Lets get it right

VisualDarkness · 09-19-2013, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by Lowell Goudge

No that's wrong. Shooting distance changes perspective, not focal length, the reason you think focal length impacts perspective is that you move closer with shorter lenses to get magnification.

Lets get it right

Yeah, you're correct, I really described it incorrectly. I wanted to say that you need to be able to crop with enough quality left to end up with a similar image, hench the difference in practical use. I have an exam in my head right now.

DSims · 09-19-2013, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by thornburg

The "traditional" sports lens is a 70-200/2.8 (or 70-210/2.8 or 80-200/2.8 or 80-210/2.8).

The Tamron and Sigma versions both have a pretty decent reputation.

The DA* 50-135/2.8 might be worth a mention, but it doesn't have quite the same reach.

If you're on a lower budget, the DA 55-300 is probably a good choice for reach, but you'll miss that wide aperture...

As I implied earlier, I use screw-drive primes for sports, because of their fast focusing. I was never able to get very good information on how fast the DA70 focuses for sports, and I'd really like to know. But it's largely irrelevant for me, since I use the FA*85 (which focuses nice and quickly) instead. Nevertheless, I'm commonly using apertures at f/2.4 or above (for sports, at least) on the FA*85, so the DA70 could be a good value if it focuses quickly.

The DA55-300 has only average IQ (although it's very good for the price), but may work for some sports. I don't remember mine focusing particularly quickly, though.

The DA*50-135 focuses fast enough for some sports, but not for others (e.g. too slow when an athlete is running toward you at full speed, but terrific for shooting a parade and OK when movement is mostly in other directions). If you can get focus it has great IQ, of course.

The Sigma 70-200/2.8 (current model only - Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 EX DG APO OS HSM for Pentax 589109 B&H) is the only zoom lens that's consistently regarded as fast focusing on the K-5 sports thread here, so if you like the optical quality of this Sigma (and it fits your budget) it's easily your safest bet in a zoom.

The K200D is a great camera (I still use mine), so you might even try buying the lens first. Although I don't get quite as many shots in focus with it, I still get very many nice ones when I use a good lens.

VisualDarkness · 09-19-2013, 02:40 PM

It's not only the newest Sigma 70-200 that is really fast, older ones like my 70-200/2.8 HSM II Macro are probably just as fast.

tele_pathic · 09-19-2013, 09:45 PM - **1 Like**

I upgraded my K200D (which I handed down to my daughter) to a K-5ii. Holy chit is the upgrade worth it! The indoor, upgraded ISO performance of the K-5ii is fantastic.

reeftool · 09-19-2013, 10:24 PM

Depending on the location, your 70/2.4 may be perfectly fine. How close to the action are you? At the 2 high schools closest to me, I use a DA 40/2.8 Limited and get by fine. The bleachers go quite close to the playing floor at basketball games and I need to pay attention when I'm using the camera as the players and the ball can get real close. Larger venues where the seating is further away, longer lenses would be better.

09-19-2013, 08:49 AM	#1
Lautrec New Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 10	Use da 70mm 2.4 and crop or buy zoom? Two questions really - first for shooting indoor sports would my da 70mm 2.4 prime lens photos be as good as a larger zoom if I crop them? Second question - looking to upgrade my k200d to either k-5 or k-5 IIs. Which is better? Is it worth price difference?

09-19-2013, 02:16 PM	#12
DSims Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Southern California Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,236	Originally posted by thornburg The "traditional" sports lens is a 70-200/2.8 (or 70-210/2.8 or 80-200/2.8 or 80-210/2.8). The Tamron and Sigma versions both have a pretty decent reputation. The DA* 50-135/2.8 might be worth a mention, but it doesn't have quite the same reach. If you're on a lower budget, the DA 55-300 is probably a good choice for reach, but you'll miss that wide aperture... As I implied earlier, I use screw-drive primes for sports, because of their fast focusing. I was never able to get very good information on how fast the DA70 focuses for sports, and I'd really like to know. But it's largely irrelevant for me, since I use the FA85 (which focuses nice and quickly) instead. Nevertheless, I'm commonly using apertures at f/2.4 or above (for sports, at least) on the FA85, so the DA70 could be a good value if it focuses quickly. The DA55-300 has only average IQ (although it's very good for the price), but may work for some sports. I don't remember mine focusing particularly quickly, though. The DA50-135 focuses fast enough for some sports, but not for others (e.g. too slow when an athlete is running toward you at full speed, but terrific for shooting a parade and OK when movement is mostly in other directions). If you can get focus it has great IQ, of course. The Sigma 70-200/2.8 (current model only - Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 EX DG APO OS HSM for Pentax 589109 B&H) is the only zoom lens that's consistently regarded as fast focusing on the K-5 sports thread here, so if you like the optical quality of this Sigma (and it fits your budget) it's easily your safest bet in a zoom. The K200D is a great camera (I still use mine), so you might even try buying the lens first. Although I don't get quite as many shots in focus with it, I still get very many nice ones when I use a good lens. Last edited by DSims; 09-19-2013 at 02:22 PM.*

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Anyone has/had both the DA 70mm/2.4 ltd. and the Samyang 85mm/1.4?	causey	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	45	12-24-2012 07:15 AM
For Sale - Sold: 2 Amazing lenses: DA 70mm f/2.4 Limited and FA 50mm f/2.8 Macro	Nick Siebers	Sold Items	5	07-17-2012 04:03 PM
For Sale - Sold: Pentax DA 35mm f/2.8 Macro /// DA 70mm f/2.4 /// Sigma 10-20mm f/4-5.6	yoon395	Sold Items	4	10-31-2011 03:12 PM
another "should I buy?" thread: DA 70mm f/2.4L - I have a Tammy 28-75/2.8 & FA 50/1.4	m8o	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	11	08-26-2008 09:09 AM

09-19-2013, 09:54 AM	#2
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	The problem with zoom lenses is that they rarely go faster than f4 above 70mm. Some go f2.8, but even that is not as bright as the 70mm f2.4. A constant-aperture zoom lens that has a bright f-stop at the tele length might be expensive. Maybe a 135mm prime lens would be a better choice? The thing with cropping is that it can be really great, but it kind of depends on the camera. Some cameras have too much noise or too little MP for significant cropping. K-5 vs. K-5IIs.. well, there are a couple threads with differences. The K-5II and IIs have an improved AF module, especially for low light. So this might be important to you. And the II vs. IIs.. the II is regular, the IIs is a little sharper due to lack of AA filter.

09-19-2013, 10:01 AM	#3
JinDesu Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: New York City Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,638	Well that depends on how zoomed you want to get vs your 70mm. I crop all the time with my Sigma 50 F1.4, sometimes from 12MP (my k-x) down to 1MP sometimes (4288x2848 to 1200x800). I think that's pretty much a 3.5x ratio.

09-19-2013, 10:08 AM	#4
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,891	Let's start with what you want to print/view. What size specifically. 2MPimage can print 4 x 6 easily and 8" x 10" if you don't inspect with a magnifier especially if you upscale with linear interpolation How much do you want to crop? Are you going to shoot wide open or stop down? How much light. Also a newer body like the K5 has far superior high ISO, but i shot lots of indoor stuff with my *istD so you can do it, just expect grain. The best option is likely a 70-200/2.8 but be prepared to pay

09-19-2013, 10:11 AM	#5
DSims Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Southern California Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,236	The FA135 has very fast focusing and is ideal for sports. It's great in combination with the faster focusing of the K-5 IIs. You'll notice a significant difference over your K200D.

09-19-2013, 10:35 AM	#6
Lautrec New Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 10 Original Poster	Typically crop nearly half image out - print no larger than 11 x 14.

09-19-2013, 10:35 AM	#7
thornburg Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Doylestown, PA Posts: 200	The "traditional" sports lens is a 70-200/2.8 (or 70-210/2.8 or 80-200/2.8 or 80-210/2.8). The Tamron and Sigma versions both have a pretty decent reputation. The DA* 50-135/2.8 might be worth a mention, but it doesn't have quite the same reach. If you're on a lower budget, the DA 55-300 is probably a good choice for reach, but you'll miss that wide aperture... A K-5/K-5II/K-5IIs (or even a K-30/K-50) will be a HUGE step up from your K200d. According to DxO ratings, the K-5 IIs is 30% better image quality and 1.1 f-stops better in low light. It also has higher dynamic range, shoots faster, etc, etc, etc. Those are vs. K200d. As far as K-5 vs K-5 ii/iis, I think that depends on the price difference. I haven't personally used either camera, but most specs are very similar.

09-19-2013, 11:00 AM	#8
jimr-pdx Pentaxian Join Date: May 2010 Location: now 1 hour north of PDX Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,897	If you aren't using a tripod the DA70 will definitely give steadier images due to its size, and images are very good wide open when speed is vital. As to cropping, it works for me but I don't crop deeply nor do I make large prints, so that one is user-dependent.

09-19-2013, 12:38 PM	#9
VisualDarkness Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,439	Note that focal lenght not only affect the angle of view you capture, it also (actually mainly) affects perspective,

09-19-2013, 12:45 PM	#10
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,891	Originally posted by VisualDarkness Note that focal lenght not only affect the angle of view you capture, it also (actually mainly) affects perspective, No that's wrong. Shooting distance changes perspective, not focal length, the reason you think focal length impacts perspective is that you move closer with shorter lenses to get magnification. Lets get it right

09-19-2013, 12:53 PM	#11
VisualDarkness Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,439	Originally posted by Lowell Goudge No that's wrong. Shooting distance changes perspective, not focal length, the reason you think focal length impacts perspective is that you move closer with shorter lenses to get magnification. Lets get it right Yeah, you're correct, I really described it incorrectly. I wanted to say that you need to be able to crop with enough quality left to end up with a similar image, hench the difference in practical use. I have an exam in my head right now.

09-19-2013, 02:40 PM	#13
VisualDarkness Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,439	It's not only the newest Sigma 70-200 that is really fast, older ones like my 70-200/2.8 HSM II Macro are probably just as fast.

09-19-2013, 09:45 PM - 1 Like	#14
tele_pathic Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Photos: Albums Posts: 292	I upgraded my K200D (which I handed down to my daughter) to a K-5ii. Holy chit is the upgrade worth it! The indoor, upgraded ISO performance of the K-5ii is fantastic.

09-19-2013, 10:24 PM	#15
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,555	Depending on the location, your 70/2.4 may be perfectly fine. How close to the action are you? At the 2 high schools closest to me, I use a DA 40/2.8 Limited and get by fine. The bleachers go quite close to the playing floor at basketball games and I need to pay attention when I'm using the camera as the players and the ball can get real close. Larger venues where the seating is further away, longer lenses would be better.