Affordable aspherical wide-angle for a K5?

torontoem4o · 10-12-2013, 10:23 PM

I'm planning on doing some shooting in very cramped spaces (like inside a car) where I need as large a field of view as possible. So I am looking to get an ultra wide (but not fish eye) lens. Problem is, for the K5, all I can really think of are the Sigma 10-20mm f/4-5.6 and the Tamron 10-24 f/3.5-4.5. Either of these would set me back 500+ in canada new or 400+ used. I used to have the Sigma 10-20 f/3.5 and loved it but I lost it and don't have even half that amount to spend on a new ultra wide.

There are some much more affordable legacy primes and zooms but made for full frame, so on the K5 I would lose that field of view. I need something with an "effective" minimum focal length no greater than 14-15, and preferably smaller, except at a price about half of what those 500 buck lenses would cost me. Does such a thing even exist or am I just stuck saving up?

Adam · 10-12-2013, 10:26 PM

Here you go:
Bower 14mm f/2.8 Ultra Wide Angle Lens SLY14MMF2.8P B&H Photo

Or are you looking for something that's 15mm equivalent on FF?

torontoem4o · 10-12-2013, 10:31 PM

Originally posted by Adam

Here you go:
Bower 14mm f/2.8 Ultra Wide Angle Lens SLY14MMF2.8P B&H Photo

Or are you looking for something that's 15mm equivalent on FF?

I think that would be what I'm looking for...would be pretty equivalent to the 14mm on the Tamron/Sigma ones I mentioned, right?

Na Horuk · 10-13-2013, 04:28 AM

14mm is 14mm, regardless of brand and camera. The size of the sensor can crop the FoV, though, but it will always crop the same amount fora given focal length. Basically, ignore the whole "crop" thing - 14mm is very wide. I sometimes find it to be awkwardly wide, but you probably know if you already had the 10-20mm.
Just keep in mind that the Bower (Also sold under brands Samyang, ProOptic, Rokinon, Vivitar, and others) is manual focus only and has no digital contacts for your camera. But Av mode and metering will still work normally. And you can try using CiF and zone focusing. The Samyang 14mm is a pretty big lens, but its not too terrible. Also, sometimes this lens will have uncalibrated distance scales, but there are ways to fix this (or just keep it in mind). These are the things you miss out on due to low price.
The zoom lenses you mentioned will probably not have as high image quality as the Samyang 14mm, but they do have the zoom and AF. Samyang 14mm has amazing IQ and is f2.8, and sturdy barrel. For its price, its an amazing lens, practically the only one of its kind atm. You can also take a look at Samyang 16mm f2.0 and Samyang 10mm, if they released it yet. Not sure what the price for these is.

torontoem4o · 10-13-2013, 08:38 AM

Originally posted by Na Horuk

14mm is 14mm, regardless of brand and camera. The size of the sensor can crop the FoV, though, but it will always crop the same amount fora given focal length. Basically, ignore the whole "crop" thing - 14mm is very wide. I sometimes find it to be awkwardly wide, but you probably know if you already had the 10-20mm.
Just keep in mind that the Bower (Also sold under brands Samyang, ProOptic, Rokinon, Vivitar, and others) is manual focus only and has no digital contacts for your camera. But Av mode and metering will still work normally. And you can try using CiF and zone focusing. The Samyang 14mm is a pretty big lens, but its not too terrible. Also, sometimes this lens will have uncalibrated distance scales, but there are ways to fix this (or just keep it in mind). These are the things you miss out on due to low price.
The zoom lenses you mentioned will probably not have as high image quality as the Samyang 14mm, but they do have the zoom and AF. Samyang 14mm has amazing IQ and is f2.8, and sturdy barrel. For its price, its an amazing lens, practically the only one of its kind atm. You can also take a look at Samyang 16mm f2.0 and Samyang 10mm, if they released it yet. Not sure what the price for these is.

I guess my question then is - if I get an old prime zoom (like a zentar or something) which was made for full frame, would a 15mm focal length give me the same FOV on the cropped sensor of the K5 that the new Sigma/Tamron wide zooms would on the same camera when set at 15mm?

Thanks!

Na Horuk · 10-13-2013, 11:28 AM

Yes, the zoom at 15mm will give you the same FoV as a 15mm prime. But the Zenitar is a fisheye, right? That changes things. A 16mm fisheye will render very differently from a 16mm rectilinear wide angle lens.
Since you are using a crop sensor, it doesnt matter if the lens is made for full frame or crop sensor. This distinction only matters if you are using a full frame camera (like a film camera), because crop lenses will show very dark edges on a full frame. Please check out some threads about full frame and crop sensors, and about wide angle lenses, if you are confused about anything. I think there were quite a few threads on this topic that might help you out.
Maybe the examples in this thread:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/235102-uwa-lens-comparison.html

torontoem4o · 10-13-2013, 01:13 PM

Thanks! In that case I suppose I should consider the Tokina SL-17 17mm f/3.5, a tiny but less wide than I wanted but I can probably find it for half the price of the other primes, no? Without too much sacrifice in IQ?

**dms** · 10-13-2013, 01:34 PM

I would caution you--if you are think of the zoom lens at 10 mm wide end--then 14 mm is quite a bit less field, and 17 mm a huge amount less. Maybe you should go to a camera store and try out a zoom to be sure 17mm is an OK FL.

And the 17mm is not aspherical (I don't believe anyway). Not sure why this is an issue for you--it will impact coma--but not likely your situation (interior/lens closed down and no bright lights).

lytrytyr · 10-13-2013, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by dms

And the 17mm is not aspherical (I don't believe anyway). Not sure why this is an issue for you

OP may have meant "rectilinear".

**dms** · 10-13-2013, 01:44 PM

If you are looking for car interiors/close ups the closest focusing and how good the close image is are important (to you). While I don't have/use wide FL (21mm is the widest I use) I gather the Pentax 14mm f/2.8 has this attribute--but used it likely is $400 or so.

Also the kit lens is an 18-55 mm and maybe that's a cheap place to start (used they are very cheap). Likely not a great image but ...

**dms** · 10-13-2013, 01:51 PM

Combining two shots (panorama) is likely going to give you a better image quality--may want to start with this. Any moderate FL lens you have will should work OK. Main thing is getting the camera handling down for this--I do this a lot actually.

kh1234567890 · 10-13-2013, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by dms

Combining two shots (panorama) is likely going to give you a better image quality--may want to start with this. Any moderate FL lens you have will should work OK. Main thing is getting the camera handling down for this--I do this a lot actually.

And some decent stitching software which can cope with ghosts

Another alternative is the DA10-17 fisheye zoom. Past about 13mm it is not excessively 'fishy'. These often come up second-hand as people decide that fisheye it not for them.

twitch · 10-13-2013, 04:15 PM

Also consider the Pentax DA 16-45, very affordable wide option.

Steinback · 10-13-2013, 07:10 PM

I would seriously consider using the Samyang (etc.) 8mm fisheye and de-fishing the images. It's going to be hard to get any wider than that for the price.

If you feel like making it out to one of the Toronto Pentax meets you are welcome to give mine a try (no meets are currently planned, but we will probably do something once the K-3 starts shipping).

Toronto Pentaxians - PentaxForums.com

reeftool · 10-14-2013, 10:30 PM

I have the DA 10-17 and love it but I would be the first to tell anybody to not buy one (or any other fish eye lens) with the idea that you can "de-fish" your shot in PP. You won't be happy with the results. There are plenty of very good wide rectilinear lenses for Pentax. I also have the DA 15, my choice because of it's small size but the DA 12-24 is also an excellent lens as are the Sigma 10-20 and 8-16. Of course, there are MF options also that will save you some money and on a very wide lens, manual focus isn't very difficult.

10-12-2013, 10:23 PM	#1
torontoem4o New Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 15	Affordable aspherical wide-angle for a K5? I'm planning on doing some shooting in very cramped spaces (like inside a car) where I need as large a field of view as possible. So I am looking to get an ultra wide (but not fish eye) lens. Problem is, for the K5, all I can really think of are the Sigma 10-20mm f/4-5.6 and the Tamron 10-24 f/3.5-4.5. Either of these would set me back 500+ in canada new or 400+ used. I used to have the Sigma 10-20 f/3.5 and loved it but I lost it and don't have even half that amount to spend on a new ultra wide. There are some much more affordable legacy primes and zooms but made for full frame, so on the K5 I would lose that field of view. I need something with an "effective" minimum focal length no greater than 14-15, and preferably smaller, except at a price about half of what those 500 buck lenses would cost me. Does such a thing even exist or am I just stuck saving up?

10-12-2013, 10:26 PM	#2
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,597	Here you go: Bower 14mm f/2.8 Ultra Wide Angle Lens SLY14MMF2.8P B&H Photo Or are you looking for something that's 15mm equivalent on FF? Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

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10-12-2013, 10:31 PM	#3
torontoem4o New Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 15 Original Poster	Originally posted by Adam Here you go: Bower 14mm f/2.8 Ultra Wide Angle Lens SLY14MMF2.8P B&H Photo Or are you looking for something that's 15mm equivalent on FF? I think that would be what I'm looking for...would be pretty equivalent to the 14mm on the Tamron/Sigma ones I mentioned, right?

10-13-2013, 04:28 AM	#4
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	14mm is 14mm, regardless of brand and camera. The size of the sensor can crop the FoV, though, but it will always crop the same amount fora given focal length. Basically, ignore the whole "crop" thing - 14mm is very wide. I sometimes find it to be awkwardly wide, but you probably know if you already had the 10-20mm. Just keep in mind that the Bower (Also sold under brands Samyang, ProOptic, Rokinon, Vivitar, and others) is manual focus only and has no digital contacts for your camera. But Av mode and metering will still work normally. And you can try using CiF and zone focusing. The Samyang 14mm is a pretty big lens, but its not too terrible. Also, sometimes this lens will have uncalibrated distance scales, but there are ways to fix this (or just keep it in mind). These are the things you miss out on due to low price. The zoom lenses you mentioned will probably not have as high image quality as the Samyang 14mm, but they do have the zoom and AF. Samyang 14mm has amazing IQ and is f2.8, and sturdy barrel. For its price, its an amazing lens, practically the only one of its kind atm. You can also take a look at Samyang 16mm f2.0 and Samyang 10mm, if they released it yet. Not sure what the price for these is.

10-13-2013, 08:38 AM	#5
torontoem4o New Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 15 Original Poster	Originally posted by Na Horuk 14mm is 14mm, regardless of brand and camera. The size of the sensor can crop the FoV, though, but it will always crop the same amount fora given focal length. Basically, ignore the whole "crop" thing - 14mm is very wide. I sometimes find it to be awkwardly wide, but you probably know if you already had the 10-20mm. Just keep in mind that the Bower (Also sold under brands Samyang, ProOptic, Rokinon, Vivitar, and others) is manual focus only and has no digital contacts for your camera. But Av mode and metering will still work normally. And you can try using CiF and zone focusing. The Samyang 14mm is a pretty big lens, but its not too terrible. Also, sometimes this lens will have uncalibrated distance scales, but there are ways to fix this (or just keep it in mind). These are the things you miss out on due to low price. The zoom lenses you mentioned will probably not have as high image quality as the Samyang 14mm, but they do have the zoom and AF. Samyang 14mm has amazing IQ and is f2.8, and sturdy barrel. For its price, its an amazing lens, practically the only one of its kind atm. You can also take a look at Samyang 16mm f2.0 and Samyang 10mm, if they released it yet. Not sure what the price for these is. I guess my question then is - if I get an old prime zoom (like a zentar or something) which was made for full frame, would a 15mm focal length give me the same FOV on the cropped sensor of the K5 that the new Sigma/Tamron wide zooms would on the same camera when set at 15mm? Thanks!

10-13-2013, 11:28 AM	#6
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	Yes, the zoom at 15mm will give you the same FoV as a 15mm prime. But the Zenitar is a fisheye, right? That changes things. A 16mm fisheye will render very differently from a 16mm rectilinear wide angle lens. Since you are using a crop sensor, it doesnt matter if the lens is made for full frame or crop sensor. This distinction only matters if you are using a full frame camera (like a film camera), because crop lenses will show very dark edges on a full frame. Please check out some threads about full frame and crop sensors, and about wide angle lenses, if you are confused about anything. I think there were quite a few threads on this topic that might help you out. Maybe the examples in this thread: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/235102-uwa-lens-comparison.html

10-13-2013, 01:13 PM	#7
torontoem4o New Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 15 Original Poster	Thanks! In that case I suppose I should consider the Tokina SL-17 17mm f/3.5, a tiny but less wide than I wanted but I can probably find it for half the price of the other primes, no? Without too much sacrifice in IQ?

10-13-2013, 01:34 PM	#8
dms Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: New York, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,192	I would caution you--if you are think of the zoom lens at 10 mm wide end--then 14 mm is quite a bit less field, and 17 mm a huge amount less. Maybe you should go to a camera store and try out a zoom to be sure 17mm is an OK FL. And the 17mm is not aspherical (I don't believe anyway). Not sure why this is an issue for you--it will impact coma--but not likely your situation (interior/lens closed down and no bright lights).

10-13-2013, 01:36 PM	#9
lytrytyr Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,310	Originally posted by dms And the 17mm is not aspherical (I don't believe anyway). Not sure why this is an issue for you OP may have meant "rectilinear".

10-13-2013, 01:44 PM	#10
dms Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: New York, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,192	If you are looking for car interiors/close ups the closest focusing and how good the close image is are important (to you). While I don't have/use wide FL (21mm is the widest I use) I gather the Pentax 14mm f/2.8 has this attribute--but used it likely is $400 or so. Also the kit lens is an 18-55 mm and maybe that's a cheap place to start (used they are very cheap). Likely not a great image but ...

10-13-2013, 01:51 PM	#11
dms Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: New York, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,192	Combining two shots (panorama) is likely going to give you a better image quality--may want to start with this. Any moderate FL lens you have will should work OK. Main thing is getting the camera handling down for this--I do this a lot actually.

10-13-2013, 04:01 PM	#12
kh1234567890 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Manchester, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,653	Originally posted by dms Combining two shots (panorama) is likely going to give you a better image quality--may want to start with this. Any moderate FL lens you have will should work OK. Main thing is getting the camera handling down for this--I do this a lot actually. And some decent stitching software which can cope with ghosts Another alternative is the DA10-17 fisheye zoom. Past about 13mm it is not excessively 'fishy'. These often come up second-hand as people decide that fisheye it not for them.

10-13-2013, 04:15 PM	#13
twitch Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4,571	Also consider the Pentax DA 16-45, very affordable wide option.

10-13-2013, 07:10 PM	#14
Steinback Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: GTA, ON, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,673	I would seriously consider using the Samyang (etc.) 8mm fisheye and de-fishing the images. It's going to be hard to get any wider than that for the price. If you feel like making it out to one of the Toronto Pentax meets you are welcome to give mine a try (no meets are currently planned, but we will probably do something once the K-3 starts shipping). Toronto Pentaxians - PentaxForums.com

10-14-2013, 10:30 PM	#15
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,555	I have the DA 10-17 and love it but I would be the first to tell anybody to not buy one (or any other fish eye lens) with the idea that you can "de-fish" your shot in PP. You won't be happy with the results. There are plenty of very good wide rectilinear lenses for Pentax. I also have the DA 15, my choice because of it's small size but the DA 12-24 is also an excellent lens as are the Sigma 10-20 and 8-16. Of course, there are MF options also that will save you some money and on a very wide lens, manual focus isn't very difficult.