My self-made tilt/shift bellows

chse · 03-30-2008, 11:24 AM

Another one of my winter-projects. I got the idea when I saw the Novoflex balpro t/s (and its ridiculous price)

See the whole instruction here:
Pentax Hacks

I started to play around with it, but I have to say using it is much more difficult than I expected. I wanted to use it for macro photos with tilted focal plane, but it turns out that this is hard since the image quality very easily deteriorates when I start tilting. I have to figure out how best to tilt the camera and the lens. Even using a medium format Kiev lens does not help much since the bellows distance requires a high magnification and this makes the areas in focus very shallow. I will try to build my own Kiew/Pentax mount adapter next which allows a closer mounting to the camera.

Any recomendations how to use it and which lenses to use?

wavecurrent · 03-30-2008, 02:02 PM

Nice work! You must get the old K-lens from Pentax: 100mm F4 bellows, should be perfect for you!

Mike

aegisphan · 03-30-2008, 02:05 PM

This is a cool concept, especially for macro work. No more focus stacking

. Very bad ass looking set up as well.

However, the problem is lying in the bellow. Since the distance between the rear element and the sensor is quite far, tilting would definitely reduce significant amount of light hitting the sensor. Since the light path is no longer straight when you tilt, this would create fuzzy image due to the light reflection inside the bellow.

Here is my thought: you should buy a tilt adapter from Arax. Connect the adapter to the bellow setup. So when you tilt, the light path is still straight.

JCSullivan · 03-31-2008, 06:39 AM

You ARE one smart cookie - well done. But now I want to see some results.

**barondla** · 03-31-2008, 07:44 AM

Incredible. Can't wait to see some pics. May have to build this.
thanks
barondla

Not Registered · 03-31-2008, 08:18 AM

Encore!!!! I love to see these devices. They always wake up my inner McGyver.

vizjerei · 03-31-2008, 10:13 AM

Any photo taken with it?

benjikan · 03-31-2008, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by chse

Another one of my winter-projects. I got the idea when I saw the Novoflex balpro t/s (and its ridiculous price)

See the whole instruction here:
Pentax Hacks

I started to play around with it, but I have to say using it is much more difficult than I expected. I wanted to use it for macro photos with tilted focal plane, but it turns out that this is hard since the image quality very easily deteriorates when I start tilting. I have to figure out how best to tilt the camera and the lens. Even using a medium format Kiev lens does not help much since the bellows distance requires a high magnification and this makes the areas in focus very shallow. I will try to build my own Kiew/Pentax mount adapter next which allows a closer mounting to the camera.

Any recomendations how to use it and which lenses to use?

Make me ONE PPPPLLLLLLLEEEEAAAASSSSSEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your Humble Servant...Ben the Plebian.

**wtlwdwgn** · 03-31-2008, 11:56 AM

Beautiful work! If you use a 35mm or 645 lens with their larger image circles it'll help with vignetting and edge sharpness.

**Ron Boggs** · 04-01-2008, 08:01 AM

VERY IMPRESSIVE! Should do some really interesting stuff with that much tilt angle adjustment available. As I recall--and I could be wrong--many large format systems offer up to around 20 degrees of tilt angle. Yours looks to have more than that. You may find that you are testing with too much tilt for the limitations of the system and you may need to find a "less radical" tilt limit which will "fix" the light issues you are having.

The Zork Multi-Focus System (which is a variable tilt unit) for the Pentax 67 uses a Rodenstock 105 mm APO f/4 enlarger lens. If you have time to surf, you'll find possible lens choices for the Zork system under "Zork", "Zoerk", "Zoerkendorfer" and similar. If you know how to type an umlaut (two dots) over the "O" you'll have the actual German spelling. I once did the research and there was considerable side info regarding lenses, image circles, light falloff and other such topics that are pertinent to your current situation. My research was two computers ago, so I don't have ready access to it anymore...

aegisphan · 04-01-2008, 08:11 AM

Like Ron said, you just need to Google Zoerk. I like their current Multi-Focus System, but it's on a bit pricier side. If you buy a set (the T/S adapter and the lens), it would be around $1k. But the system is definitely on much higher quality, more versatile than the Arax system. And the lens they're offering are high quality as well.

ftpaddict · 04-01-2008, 08:11 AM

Originally posted by benjikan

Make me ONE PPPPLLLLLLLEEEEAAAASSSSSEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your Humble Servant...Ben the Plebian.

Lol Comic Sans.

JJJPhoto · 04-01-2008, 08:32 AM

Seriously, I'd pay good money for this if you started mass producing these. I'd promise to buy one if you can keep the price reasonable.

**Ron Boggs** · 04-01-2008, 09:07 AM

The reason going out to the Zoerk site may interest you is less for purchase of products or lenses, and more for the discussion of how light works with different tilt angles and with different image circles etc. Some of the science of light and how it works in a tilt system and what lens limitations arise and so forth. I'm more of a "hey look at this image" kind of guy than a science of light type guy, but to finalize your great idea, I think you're going to have to play the scientist role for long enough to learn what you can and can't do with this type of set-up.
And by the way, the Zork Multi-Focus System is pretty cool. I have one for my 67's--that's where I got the details on the Rodenstock lens--just looked at the one on the front of my Zork system. It isn't a perfect, silky smooth piece of machinery either, but it does the job it was built for.

aegisphan · 04-02-2008, 07:14 PM

I found another T/S bellows from Novoflex. This thing is running around $1300 at BH.

I look at the product on their official site. If you notice the tilt demo picture:

It shows a much shorter distance than your T/S bellow. That's the only way for the optical pathway going from the rear element to the sensor obstructively. Besides, for real tilting, you need to only move a few millimeters to achieve the effect.

The official site: special photographic accessories

03-30-2008, 11:24 AM	#1
chse Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 167	My self-made tilt/shift bellows Another one of my winter-projects. I got the idea when I saw the Novoflex balpro t/s (and its ridiculous price) See the whole instruction here: Pentax Hacks I started to play around with it, but I have to say using it is much more difficult than I expected. I wanted to use it for macro photos with tilted focal plane, but it turns out that this is hard since the image quality very easily deteriorates when I start tilting. I have to figure out how best to tilt the camera and the lens. Even using a medium format Kiev lens does not help much since the bellows distance requires a high magnification and this makes the areas in focus very shallow. I will try to build my own Kiew/Pentax mount adapter next which allows a closer mounting to the camera. Any recomendations how to use it and which lenses to use?

04-01-2008, 08:01 AM	#10
Ron Boggs Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: MT Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,349	Enlarger Lenses? VERY IMPRESSIVE! Should do some really interesting stuff with that much tilt angle adjustment available. As I recall--and I could be wrong--many large format systems offer up to around 20 degrees of tilt angle. Yours looks to have more than that. You may find that you are testing with too much tilt for the limitations of the system and you may need to find a "less radical" tilt limit which will "fix" the light issues you are having. The Zork Multi-Focus System (which is a variable tilt unit) for the Pentax 67 uses a Rodenstock 105 mm APO f/4 enlarger lens. If you have time to surf, you'll find possible lens choices for the Zork system under "Zork", "Zoerk", "Zoerkendorfer" and similar. If you know how to type an umlaut (two dots) over the "O" you'll have the actual German spelling. I once did the research and there was considerable side info regarding lenses, image circles, light falloff and other such topics that are pertinent to your current situation. My research was two computers ago, so I don't have ready access to it anymore...

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03-30-2008, 02:02 PM	#2
wavecurrent Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 147	Nice work! You must get the old K-lens from Pentax: 100mm F4 bellows, should be perfect for you! Mike

03-30-2008, 02:05 PM	#3
aegisphan Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New Mexico Posts: 815	This is a cool concept, especially for macro work. No more focus stacking . Very bad ass looking set up as well. However, the problem is lying in the bellow. Since the distance between the rear element and the sensor is quite far, tilting would definitely reduce significant amount of light hitting the sensor. Since the light path is no longer straight when you tilt, this would create fuzzy image due to the light reflection inside the bellow. Here is my thought: you should buy a tilt adapter from Arax. Connect the adapter to the bellow setup. So when you tilt, the light path is still straight.

03-31-2008, 06:39 AM	#4
JCSullivan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Windsor, Canada Posts: 3,056	You ARE one smart cookie - well done. But now I want to see some results.

03-31-2008, 07:44 AM	#5
barondla Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: midwest, United States Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,714	Incredible. Can't wait to see some pics. May have to build this. thanks barondla

03-31-2008, 08:18 AM	#6
Not Registered Guest	Encore!!!! I love to see these devices. They always wake up my inner McGyver.

03-31-2008, 10:13 AM	#7
vizjerei Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,418	Any photo taken with it?

03-31-2008, 10:47 AM	#8
benjikan Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Paris, France Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,308	Originally posted by chse Another one of my winter-projects. I got the idea when I saw the Novoflex balpro t/s (and its ridiculous price) See the whole instruction here: Pentax Hacks I started to play around with it, but I have to say using it is much more difficult than I expected. I wanted to use it for macro photos with tilted focal plane, but it turns out that this is hard since the image quality very easily deteriorates when I start tilting. I have to figure out how best to tilt the camera and the lens. Even using a medium format Kiev lens does not help much since the bellows distance requires a high magnification and this makes the areas in focus very shallow. I will try to build my own Kiew/Pentax mount adapter next which allows a closer mounting to the camera. Any recomendations how to use it and which lenses to use? Make me ONE PPPPLLLLLLLEEEEAAAASSSSSEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!! Your Humble Servant...Ben the Plebian.

03-31-2008, 11:56 AM	#9
wtlwdwgn Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Billings, MT Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,838	Beautiful work! If you use a 35mm or 645 lens with their larger image circles it'll help with vignetting and edge sharpness.

04-01-2008, 08:11 AM	#11
aegisphan Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New Mexico Posts: 815	Like Ron said, you just need to Google Zoerk. I like their current Multi-Focus System, but it's on a bit pricier side. If you buy a set (the T/S adapter and the lens), it would be around $1k. But the system is definitely on much higher quality, more versatile than the Arax system. And the lens they're offering are high quality as well.

04-01-2008, 08:11 AM	#12
ftpaddict Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Yurp Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,666	Originally posted by benjikan Make me ONE PPPPLLLLLLLEEEEAAAASSSSSEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!! Your Humble Servant...Ben the Plebian. Lol Comic Sans.

04-01-2008, 08:32 AM	#13
JJJPhoto Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 419	Seriously, I'd pay good money for this if you started mass producing these. I'd promise to buy one if you can keep the price reasonable.

04-01-2008, 09:07 AM	#14
Ron Boggs Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: MT Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,349	The reason going out to the Zoerk site may interest you is less for purchase of products or lenses, and more for the discussion of how light works with different tilt angles and with different image circles etc. Some of the science of light and how it works in a tilt system and what lens limitations arise and so forth. I'm more of a "hey look at this image" kind of guy than a science of light type guy, but to finalize your great idea, I think you're going to have to play the scientist role for long enough to learn what you can and can't do with this type of set-up. And by the way, the Zork Multi-Focus System is pretty cool. I have one for my 67's--that's where I got the details on the Rodenstock lens--just looked at the one on the front of my Zork system. It isn't a perfect, silky smooth piece of machinery either, but it does the job it was built for.

04-02-2008, 07:14 PM	#15
aegisphan Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New Mexico Posts: 815	I found another T/S bellows from Novoflex. This thing is running around $1300 at BH. I look at the product on their official site. If you notice the tilt demo picture: It shows a much shorter distance than your T/S bellow. That's the only way for the optical pathway going from the rear element to the sensor obstructively. Besides, for real tilting, you need to only move a few millimeters to achieve the effect. The official site: special photographic accessories