Fast, cheap WIDE ANGLE (not fisheye) lens?

tripodquest · 10-22-2013, 03:59 PM

I have looked into the available lenses already (I still have many lenses to check) but from what I can see you can't get TOO fast... At least not cheap. Wide angle for APS-C, not full-frame... So f/2.8 is fine, anything below is a plus. What is cheap? $200 or $300 or so, I guess. (Naturally less is better if possible.) Go above or below (but not too much) in your suggestions, and I will figure out what to do. I would like to avoid CA and fringing of corse. As much contrast and colors as possible. Muted colors are not nice, but can be corrected. There has to be some contrast originally, the more you correct in post the worse it looks, at least in my opinion. You can't easily add sharpness in post, so sharpness is important. Thank you for anyone who takes the time to help.

panoguy · 10-22-2013, 04:12 PM

Zenitar 16mm (for full frame). Less than $200, f/2.8, very wide, sharp and contrasty. Yes, it's technically a fisheye lens, so expect some distortion, but on an APS-C sensor it isn't that much. Beyond that, you'd have to list the lenses you've already looked into, since almost all lenses specifically for APS-C are recent, and therefore not going to be that cheap or much faster than f/4.

BTW, you will never avoid CA and fringing with cheap lenses that are "wide on APS-C," so don't even try...

**mike.hiran** · 10-22-2013, 04:20 PM

or samyang/rikenon/vivitar 14mm f2.8 - manual focus though. I don't own it myself, but heard it's pretty good

tripodquest · 10-22-2013, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by panoguy

Zenitar 16mm (for full frame). Less than $200, very wide, sharp and contrasty. Yes, it's technically a fisheye lens, so expect some distortion, but on an APS-C sensor it isn't that much...

BTW, you will never avoid CA and fringing with cheap lenses, so don't even try...

Thank you, I will look it up. Russian lenses seem a little hard to find... Unless I buy it from Russia. Why not, but I wonder about the delivery time. And I hate the idea of surprise double/triple taxing by the customs. No sense in buying a cheap lens if the customs charges equal to an expensive lens. thank you for your hopeless (but I believe true) comment. I would buy a more expensive lens but I'm trying to keep my spendings on lenses and accessories for this month (and the next...) under $2000. And even with another cheap lens that will be a stretch. I could wait and buy a better wide-angle later but then i wouldn't get to use it NOW. Compromises...

Originally posted by vagrant10

or samyang/rikenon/vivitar 14mm f2.8 - manual focus though. I don't own it myself, but heard it's pretty good

I will look it up. Manual focus and manual aperture are fine. If I wanted my lens to make coffee and answer my emails for me, I would have mentioned it in the original post.

tripodquest · 10-22-2013, 04:28 PM

panoguy: I looked it up: i can get the Zenitar without importing, so that's one option.

jimr-pdx · 10-22-2013, 04:50 PM

+1 on the samyang 14. I don't mind fisheye so I picked up their 8mm for $200 and it should do the job!

tripodquest · 10-22-2013, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by jimr-pdx

+1 on the samyang 14. I don't mind fisheye so I picked up their 8mm for $200 and it should do the job!

but i would really rather get a lens that is not fisheye! 36mm is wide-angle on FF and that's 22.5mm on APS-C, so I think 18-22 is good too. 14mm is a little too wide for my liking, and gets the fisheye aberration. I'm looking at some really interesting (rare) lenses right now, but it's impossible to find a seller. I will keep looking.

tripodquest · 10-22-2013, 04:56 PM

edit: but the distortion in the samyang 14mm is acceptable, actually I'm beginning to love that lens. Top of my list right now!

**WillWeaverRVA** · 10-22-2013, 05:04 PM

Get a Samyang 14mm. I might pick one up myself, I've heard nothing but good things.

tripodquest · 10-22-2013, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by WillWeaverRVA

Get a Samyang 14mm. I might pick one up myself, I've heard nothing but good things.

I will, if I find nothing else. It's just that I wanted to spend around $200. The cheapest I can find it here is for $470.

JJJPhoto · 10-22-2013, 05:23 PM

If you shop around on the used market you can often find the Sigma 14mm f/2.8 Aspherical for the Pentax mount (autofocus lens) for between $280 and $350. I love the way that wide angle Sigma renders ... and it's crazy cheap. I think the reason it sells for so little is that it can't take filters on the front without vignetting ... unless you use a modified Pro Cokin setup. Here are a couple of my samples from that lens:
F/10

F/3.5 (taken from a moving train):

F/2.8

F/2.8:

This is the lens I'm talking about (new: ~$600, used: somewhere between $280 and $350):
http://www.amazon.com/Sigma-Aspherical-Pentax-Samsung-Cameras/dp/B0000501T1/...ma+14mm+pentax

Steve.Ledger · 10-22-2013, 05:24 PM

Try eGlobal
They have it for $293 for their Aussie store.

tripodquest · 10-22-2013, 05:39 PM

Originally posted by sledger

Try eGlobal
They have it for $293 for their Aussie store.

I don't live in Australia and that in no way takes care of the import taxes. I will not pay import taxes, it's a waste of money. Import taxes usually equal to the price of another lens.

Originally posted by JJJPhoto:

here

looks pretty good. The filter vignetting is bad. I would have really only wanted to use one filter (CPL) but vignetting makes it a bad option. I don't like imaginary compositions where my actual composition includes areas I need to crop away. Okay, post can also correct vignetting but what if I want to use the lens for video? Vignetting with barrel distortion can be nice for an artistic effect but I don't want the vignetting for every video if I use it for video. I haven't checked my video editing software for devignetting filter but the less hassle the better. I would probably use the CPL rarely but a limitation is a limitation. but i will keep the lens in mind. Right now I can't find it on ebay here though. "0 results." the closest in the results below is Sigma EX Fisheye 15mm F2.8 Pentax, $490 Availability...

**paulh** · 10-22-2013, 05:47 PM

The DA16-45/4 isn't fast at f/4, but has excellent IQ with very nice rendering & sharpness. I see them here on the PF Marketplace going for $200-$250 all the time. It's a discontinued model, but nice used copies turn up frequently.

JJJPhoto · 10-22-2013, 05:58 PM

Originally posted by tripodquest

Right now I can't find it on ebay here though. "0 results." the closest in the results below is Sigma EX Fisheye 15mm F2.8 Pentax, $490 Availability...

Hmmm ... I suspect there's some confusion online. There was an older Sigma 14mm f/3.5 "fisheye" but the only Sigma 14mm f/2.8 lens that I'm aware of is the "Aspherical" ... which is not a fisheye. The images I posted in this thread (all taken with the Sigma 14mm f/2.8 Aspherical) are all essentially straight from the camera. I might have tweaked a RAW slider to two but I didn't apply any lens distortion correction ... which I would have needed to do if it was a fisheye.

KEH has this lens listed for $339, so if you're interested you might want to call them and clarify which lens they're selling.
http://www.keh.com/camera/Pentax-Autofocus-Non-Mfg-Fixed-Focal-Length-Lenses...99074534N?r=FE

The one on Amazon that I linked to is the one I have (not a fisheye). I purchased mine used on Ebay for $350 with free shipping.

Here is an image of the older Sigma 14mm f/3.5 which is a fisheye with greater distortion (although the distortion on the old Sigma 14mm f/3.5 isn't as bad as the Pentax DA 10-17mm Fisheye):
Sigma 14mm f/3.5 Fisheye - cameraporn.net | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Oh, and regarding the polarizer issue, many people have commented that the Sigma ultra wide angle lenses seem to have an extra coating that is "almost" like a built-in polarizer. I didn't alter the color of the sky in any of these shots:

10-22-2013, 03:59 PM	#1
tripodquest Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 249	Fast, cheap WIDE ANGLE (not fisheye) lens? I have looked into the available lenses already (I still have many lenses to check) but from what I can see you can't get TOO fast... At least not cheap. Wide angle for APS-C, not full-frame... So f/2.8 is fine, anything below is a plus. What is cheap? $200 or $300 or so, I guess. (Naturally less is better if possible.) Go above or below (but not too much) in your suggestions, and I will figure out what to do. I would like to avoid CA and fringing of corse. As much contrast and colors as possible. Muted colors are not nice, but can be corrected. There has to be some contrast originally, the more you correct in post the worse it looks, at least in my opinion. You can't easily add sharpness in post, so sharpness is important. Thank you for anyone who takes the time to help.

10-22-2013, 04:12 PM	#2
panoguy Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Washington, D.C. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,327	Zenitar 16mm (for full frame). Less than $200, f/2.8, very wide, sharp and contrasty. Yes, it's technically a fisheye lens, so expect some distortion, but on an APS-C sensor it isn't that much. Beyond that, you'd have to list the lenses you've already looked into, since almost all lenses specifically for APS-C are recent, and therefore not going to be that cheap or much faster than f/4. BTW, you will never avoid CA and fringing with cheap lenses that are "wide on APS-C," so don't even try... Last edited by panoguy; 10-22-2013 at 04:22 PM.

10-22-2013, 05:58 PM	#15
JJJPhoto Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 419	Originally posted by tripodquest Right now I can't find it on ebay here though. "0 results." the closest in the results below is Sigma EX Fisheye 15mm F2.8 Pentax, $490 Availability... Hmmm ... I suspect there's some confusion online. There was an older Sigma 14mm f/3.5 "fisheye" but the only Sigma 14mm f/2.8 lens that I'm aware of is the "Aspherical" ... which is not a fisheye. The images I posted in this thread (all taken with the Sigma 14mm f/2.8 Aspherical) are all essentially straight from the camera. I might have tweaked a RAW slider to two but I didn't apply any lens distortion correction ... which I would have needed to do if it was a fisheye. KEH has this lens listed for $339, so if you're interested you might want to call them and clarify which lens they're selling. http://www.keh.com/camera/Pentax-Autofocus-Non-Mfg-Fixed-Focal-Length-Lenses...99074534N?r=FE The one on Amazon that I linked to is the one I have (not a fisheye). I purchased mine used on Ebay for $350 with free shipping. Here is an image of the older Sigma 14mm f/3.5 which is a fisheye with greater distortion (although the distortion on the old Sigma 14mm f/3.5 isn't as bad as the Pentax DA 10-17mm Fisheye): Sigma 14mm f/3.5 Fisheye - cameraporn.net \| Flickr - Photo Sharing! Oh, and regarding the polarizer issue, many people have commented that the Sigma ultra wide angle lenses seem to have an extra coating that is "almost" like a built-in polarizer. I didn't alter the color of the sky in any of these shots: Last edited by JJJPhoto; 10-22-2013 at 06:06 PM.

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10-22-2013, 04:20 PM	#3
mike.hiran Site Supporter Join Date: May 2007 Location: portland Photos: Albums Posts: 1,491	or samyang/rikenon/vivitar 14mm f2.8 - manual focus though. I don't own it myself, but heard it's pretty good

10-22-2013, 04:26 PM	#4
tripodquest Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 249 Original Poster	Originally posted by panoguy Zenitar 16mm (for full frame). Less than $200, very wide, sharp and contrasty. Yes, it's technically a fisheye lens, so expect some distortion, but on an APS-C sensor it isn't that much... BTW, you will never avoid CA and fringing with cheap lenses, so don't even try... Thank you, I will look it up. Russian lenses seem a little hard to find... Unless I buy it from Russia. Why not, but I wonder about the delivery time. And I hate the idea of surprise double/triple taxing by the customs. No sense in buying a cheap lens if the customs charges equal to an expensive lens. thank you for your hopeless (but I believe true) comment. I would buy a more expensive lens but I'm trying to keep my spendings on lenses and accessories for this month (and the next...) under $2000. And even with another cheap lens that will be a stretch. I could wait and buy a better wide-angle later but then i wouldn't get to use it NOW. Compromises... Originally posted by vagrant10 or samyang/rikenon/vivitar 14mm f2.8 - manual focus though. I don't own it myself, but heard it's pretty good I will look it up. Manual focus and manual aperture are fine. If I wanted my lens to make coffee and answer my emails for me, I would have mentioned it in the original post.

10-22-2013, 04:28 PM	#5
tripodquest Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 249 Original Poster	panoguy: I looked it up: i can get the Zenitar without importing, so that's one option.

10-22-2013, 04:50 PM	#6
jimr-pdx Pentaxian Join Date: May 2010 Location: now 1 hour north of PDX Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,897	+1 on the samyang 14. I don't mind fisheye so I picked up their 8mm for $200 and it should do the job!

10-22-2013, 04:54 PM	#7
tripodquest Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 249 Original Poster	Originally posted by jimr-pdx +1 on the samyang 14. I don't mind fisheye so I picked up their 8mm for $200 and it should do the job! but i would really rather get a lens that is not fisheye! 36mm is wide-angle on FF and that's 22.5mm on APS-C, so I think 18-22 is good too. 14mm is a little too wide for my liking, and gets the fisheye aberration. I'm looking at some really interesting (rare) lenses right now, but it's impossible to find a seller. I will keep looking.

10-22-2013, 04:56 PM	#8
tripodquest Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 249 Original Poster	edit: but the distortion in the samyang 14mm is acceptable, actually I'm beginning to love that lens. Top of my list right now!

10-22-2013, 05:04 PM	#9
WillWeaverRVA Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Richmond, VA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,071	Get a Samyang 14mm. I might pick one up myself, I've heard nothing but good things.

10-22-2013, 05:15 PM	#10
tripodquest Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 249 Original Poster	Originally posted by WillWeaverRVA Get a Samyang 14mm. I might pick one up myself, I've heard nothing but good things. I will, if I find nothing else. It's just that I wanted to spend around $200. The cheapest I can find it here is for $470.

10-22-2013, 05:23 PM	#11
JJJPhoto Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 419	If you shop around on the used market you can often find the Sigma 14mm f/2.8 Aspherical for the Pentax mount (autofocus lens) for between $280 and $350. I love the way that wide angle Sigma renders ... and it's crazy cheap. I think the reason it sells for so little is that it can't take filters on the front without vignetting ... unless you use a modified Pro Cokin setup. Here are a couple of my samples from that lens: F/10 F/3.5 (taken from a moving train): F/2.8 F/2.8: This is the lens I'm talking about (new: ~$600, used: somewhere between $280 and $350): http://www.amazon.com/Sigma-Aspherical-Pentax-Samsung-Cameras/dp/B0000501T1/...ma+14mm+pentax

10-22-2013, 05:24 PM	#12
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	Try eGlobal They have it for $293 for their Aussie store.

10-22-2013, 05:39 PM	#13
tripodquest Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 249 Original Poster	Originally posted by sledger Try eGlobal They have it for $293 for their Aussie store. I don't live in Australia and that in no way takes care of the import taxes. I will not pay import taxes, it's a waste of money. Import taxes usually equal to the price of another lens. Originally posted by JJJPhoto: here looks pretty good. The filter vignetting is bad. I would have really only wanted to use one filter (CPL) but vignetting makes it a bad option. I don't like imaginary compositions where my actual composition includes areas I need to crop away. Okay, post can also correct vignetting but what if I want to use the lens for video? Vignetting with barrel distortion can be nice for an artistic effect but I don't want the vignetting for every video if I use it for video. I haven't checked my video editing software for devignetting filter but the less hassle the better. I would probably use the CPL rarely but a limitation is a limitation. but i will keep the lens in mind. Right now I can't find it on ebay here though. "0 results." the closest in the results below is Sigma EX Fisheye 15mm F2.8 Pentax, $490 Availability...

10-22-2013, 05:47 PM	#14
paulh Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: DFW Texas/Ventura County, CA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 33,301	The DA16-45/4 isn't fast at f/4, but has excellent IQ with very nice rendering & sharpness. I see them here on the PF Marketplace going for $200-$250 all the time. It's a discontinued model, but nice used copies turn up frequently.