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10-24-2013, 08:54 AM   #16
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One More!

I'll throw in a vote for the Miranda 24mm f/2.8 MC Macro. Mine is an 'A' mount and MF. About $100 used in PK mount. A fine 24mm, I like it better than the Sigma 'Super-Wide' 24mm f.2.8. Sort of hard-to-find, but they're out there! I've posted photos in the 'Off Brand Lens' club.
Ron

10-24-2013, 09:31 AM   #17
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I think those labelled as Rokinon, Bower, Falcon, ProOptic, Vivitar, Walimex should be labelled as Samyang first and foremost, because that is the closest to the actual manufacture of lenses. Samyang is selling or (soon will) 10mm, 14mm, 16mm, 24mm f1.4 primes. And the 8mm fisheye and 24mm f3.5 tilt shift lens.

Oh, and another fisheye to list is the Belorussian Peleng 8mm f3.5. And there is also a Vivitar 13mm which might be different from the Samyang rebadge (it has different number of elements/groups listed), you can find it on B&H.

To me, anything above 24mm is not really that "wide" on crop cameras.
I think a clear list of all of these lenses, maybe with links to lens reviews, would be a great sticky on this forum, because threads about wide angle lenses keep popping up.

Last edited by Na Horuk; 10-24-2013 at 09:41 AM.
10-24-2013, 09:50 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
Samyang is selling or (soon will) 10mm, 14mm, 16mm, 24mm f1.4 primes.
Just to clarify:

The 14mm is f/2.8, while the 16mm is f/2.

::: Samyang Optics co., ltd. - We bring you Safety :::

(No idea about the "Safety"! )

The 10mm has been delayed,
so we'll need to wait to see exactly how that works out.
10-24-2013, 12:32 PM   #19
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Not sure if zooms are allowed, but the Sigma 8-16 is generally more highly regarded than either of the 10-20s, though it's not particularly fast. So I don't think lenses wider than 10 or 12mm should be excluded.

There's also the Sigma 10/2.8 Fisheye. It's excellent for a FE. Considerably better than the Pentax 10-17 at 10mm, which I used to have.

Samyang is also supposed to be introducing a fast 10mm aspherical in the first part of 2014, which is a year behind the original schedule. This is the lens that I'm waiting on.

10-24-2013, 12:42 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by causey Quote
There are countless cheap old 28mm f2.8: Tokina, Sigma, Tamron, Vivitar, Sears, Cosmicar, Albinar, Chinon, Makinon, etc.--some of which have the "A" setting.
Also: Vivitar/Kiron 24mm f2, Tokina 24mm f2.8...
I noticed, that's why I won't include other 28/2.8s, unless someone tells me one of them is really exeptional. The list would be really long... I will read the rest of the replies now and add them to the list.
10-24-2013, 01:06 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Except 28mm is not wide on APS-C and f/2.8 is not particularly fast. As noted above, there are literally thousands of lenses that fit in the range 28mm and shorter and f/2.8 and faster. The list gets much, much smaller if you start at 24mm and f/2 (truly wide and fast).


Steve
I updated the list, with this in mind. The 28mm are still there, but in their own section (below the ->25mm section), and I wrote a reason for including them.
10-24-2013, 01:22 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Andi Lo Quote
If f/4 is considered fast then the DA 10-17 ($375) should be on the list as well.
I disagree that 28mm is wide angle on APSC. It's more of a normal.
f/4 is not fast, at all. You're right about 28mm, so I put the 28mm in its own section. I included them for balance, so that this list would not be completely useless for FF shooters.
QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
f/2.8 is not particularly fast. Steve
I agree, it's not that fast, but it's still considered ''fast''. I consider it fast, depending on the lens. My 135/2.8 is a lot brighter at 2.8 than my 50/1.7 for example. ''T-stop''! My fast lenses have apertures 1.2, 1.4, 1.7, 1.8 and 2.8, and I think of all of them as fast, the only 2.8 in my collection right now is the 135 and like i said, it's pleasantly bright for being 2.8 edit: it's actually not the only 2.8 anymore, I bought a 28/2.8 just because the lens produces great pictures for the price... And, well, just the price. It cost $40 so I had to buy it. It's still faster than the kit lens @28mm. Just until I buy something in the 14-20mm range.


QuoteOriginally posted by DogLover Quote
Not sure if zooms are allowed, but the Sigma 8-16 is generally more highly regarded than either of the 10-20s, though it's not particularly fast. So I don't think lenses wider than 10 or 12mm should be excluded.

There's also the Sigma 10/2.8 Fisheye. It's excellent for a FE. Considerably better than the Pentax 10-17 at 10mm, which I used to have.

Samyang is also supposed to be introducing a fast 10mm aspherical in the first part of 2014, which is a year behind the original schedule. This is the lens that I'm waiting on.
Well, 8-16 goes well beyond 12mm so it could be included If it wasn't incredibly slow.

Last edited by tripodquest; 10-24-2013 at 01:31 PM.
10-24-2013, 01:49 PM   #23
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Remind me again why fast is so desirable?

10-24-2013, 01:59 PM   #24
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You are missing the Sigma 20mm/1.8. Since it's more of a boat anchor and less of a lens, I can understand why you left it out.
10-24-2013, 02:16 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Remind me again why fast is so desirable?
Socratic question, Steve? I see two f/2's and an f/1.8 in your signature!
10-24-2013, 02:31 PM   #26
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I think he probably means why is fast so desirable for a wide-angle.
10-24-2013, 03:44 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Remind me again why fast is so desirable?
Because slow means limited, choked, less control, less light. Fast is exactly that: control, a choice. The ability to choose between f/8, f/5.6, f/4, AND f/2.8, f/2 and f/1.7 or 1.4 or 1.2... And then of course, try using shutter speeds of over 1/25 for 25fps video... Judging by your attitude though, you might enjoy this article: Carl Zeiss Super-Q-Gigantar 40mm f/0.33: The Fastest Lens Ever Made? Personally, I buy fast lenses because they're functional, not because I want to say "I have a f/1.2 lens". (I think everyone should have one anyway. At least if they bother learning how to use one. Lenses are only useful if you learn how to use them.) Wide angle is no different from any other kind of lens. Faster means it's possible to take photos with less light. Some people might wonder why Canon ever made the 400mm f/2.8 or Nikon the 135/2, Sigma and Samyang and Pentax and others the 77, 85, 105, 135 and 180 1.4's and 1.8's. Canon even made a 1200 f/5.6 which is fast... for a 1200mm (thought I admit there are better solutions at that length.) Is there a focal length where having a fast lens is a disadvantage*?
*provided the lens is optically just as good or better as a slower version

Last edited by tripodquest; 10-24-2013 at 04:03 PM.
10-24-2013, 03:51 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by rbefly Quote
I'll throw in a vote for the Miranda 24mm f/2.8 MC Macro. Mine is an 'A' mount and MF. About $100 used in PK mount. A fine 24mm, I like it better than the Sigma 'Super-Wide' 24mm f.2.8. Sort of hard-to-find, but they're out there! I've posted photos in the 'Off Brand Lens' club.
Ron
I noticed it's a little hard to find... I can add it to the list so it's not left out.
QuoteOriginally posted by Kozlok Quote
You are missing the Sigma 20mm/1.8. Since it's more of a boat anchor and less of a lens, I can understand why you left it out.
I also left out one other lens on purpose, I tried to only include decent lenses. No use adding a lens if it doesn't produce good pictures.
QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
Just to clarify:

The 14mm is f/2.8, while the 16mm is f/2.

::: Samyang Optics co., ltd. - We bring you Safety :::

(No idea about the "Safety"! )

The 10mm has been delayed,
so we'll need to wait to see exactly how that works out.
I'm excited... I'm thinking I might not buy anything yet and wait for the new Samyangs. I really like Samyang lenses! Great quality for great prices.
10-24-2013, 04:34 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by tripodquest Quote
Because slow means limited, choked, less control, less light. Fast is exactly that: control, a choice. The ability to choose between f/8, f/5.6, f/4, AND f/2.8, f/2 and f/1.7 or 1.4 or 1.2... And then of course, try using shutter speeds of over 1/25 for 25fps video... Judging by your attitude though, you might enjoy this article: Carl Zeiss Super-Q-Gigantar 40mm f/0.33: The Fastest Lens Ever Made? Personally, I buy fast lenses because they're functional, not because I want to say "I have a f/1.2 lens". (I think everyone should have one anyway. At least if they bother learning how to use one. Lenses are only useful if you learn how to use them.) Wide angle is no different from any other kind of lens. Faster means it's possible to take photos with less light. Some people might wonder why Canon ever made the 400mm f/2.8 or Nikon the 135/2, Sigma and Samyang and Pentax and others the 77, 85, 105, 135 and 180 1.4's and 1.8's. Canon even made a 1200 f/5.6 which is fast... for a 1200mm (thought I admit there are better solutions at that length.) Is there a focal length where having a fast lens is a disadvantage*?
*provided the lens is optically just as good or better as a slower version
This is all true, except when you're dealing with a wide angle or UWA, the need for speed drops dramatically since you can basically handhold a 20mm lens at under 1/100 of a second speeds without needing shake reduction even being on.

Fast *and* wide is only really useful for a small amount of scenarios (though I'll be the first to state I bought my 10-20 f/3.5 because I wanted that extra speed with the lens at the long end.).

I handhold night shots all the time with my UWA - having a wide aperture becomes much less of a need when you're wandering around with a sub-20mm lens.

EDIT: Here's an example, this is hand-held, 3 shot HDR bracket using the 10-20 f/3.5. Having a faster lens for this would be nice, but by no means is necessary for what the end goal was.



Last edited by Sagitta; 10-24-2013 at 04:41 PM.
10-24-2013, 04:52 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sagitta Quote
This is all true, except when you're dealing with a wide angle or UWA, the need for speed drops dramatically since you can basically handhold a 20mm lens at under 1/100 of a second speeds without needing shake reduction even being on.

Fast *and* wide is only really useful for a small amount of scenarios (though I'll be the first to state I bought my 10-20 f/3.5 because I wanted that extra speed with the lens at the long end.).

I handhold night shots all the time with my UWA - having a wide aperture becomes much less of a need when you're wandering around with a sub-20mm lens.
I'm the first to admit that I have almost no experience using wide angle lenses. I acquired an interest for them just recently. I have been mostly shooting 40-300mm before, with the occasional 18-35 photos only when I've happened to have a kit lens and use it, which has not been often. Can you give me examples of night shots at f/3.5 on a 20mm? (i can check flickr myself, but if you happen to think of examples...) I might just change my mind about how fast I really need. For now. I know I will be getting the 18/20mm sub-f/2 at some point anyway. The reason for me is that i never want to think ''I could have taken that photo, if I had the lens I could have bought but didn't, because ;;you don't need it''''. You say ''small amount of scenarios'', but I like to push the limits, because that's the only way you ever get better. First you need to learn the basics of course... But starting out with the fast lens saves you from buying two lenses. Otherwise you will buy two lenses, even without LBA. About night time photography, whenever I read those leica noctilux 50/0.95 reviews, I always think "yes, that's the kind of photos I want to take". (Some of them are actually a little too bright for night time photos, which always makes me think 1.2/1.4 is the perfect aperture.) And the photos in those reviews are of pretty ordinary situations, not something "you come across once in a lifetime." And if it is a situation you only come across once in a life time, and it's dark... You just saved a few hundred dollars and missed something priceless.

edit: you were faster than me. Thank you for the example. It does look rather noisy compared to f/1.7 or f/2.8, but I don't know if it's high ISO or your k-30. In any case, it shares the mood wonderfully. Did you use a star filter or is that just glare?

Last edited by tripodquest; 10-24-2013 at 05:11 PM.
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