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10-29-2013, 05:15 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
Take a look at the offending hard-edged polygon in the upper left of the top image. I have different standards when it comes to Bokeh - I am a bit of a lens aficionado, and I consider the DA limiteds to be rather average in this respect*....
Help me understand...

Am I to gather that you take pictures and don't utilize out-of-camera post processing to make them into photograghs?

The post processing skills required to address the few "faults" you identify in these examples is not very high. Everything can be easily corrected in less than 1 minute using Photoshop's "Content Aware," plus a whisper (or two) of Lightroom.

... just curious... M

10-29-2013, 05:50 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
Take a look at the offending hard-edged polygon in the upper left of the top image.
I wish all my "flawed" photos looked this good! I have had the DA15 for nearly a year and I'm still undecided if I love it or hate it. It definitely takes some forethought to use effectively but I can't seem to get past it. For me it's not the flaws you refer to but the focal length, I think. Although, there are some amazing examples of what it can do in the The 15mm Limited controls my mind - club. I'll probably settle on the DA*16-50 because of versatility and weather resistance (which all lenses should be!).
10-29-2013, 06:59 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Michaelina2 Quote
Am I to gather that you take pictures and don't utilize out-of-camera post processing to make them into photograghs?
I do some editing - but I'm a old school photographer, I don't like to rely on post processing too much and I do my best to get everything right in camera - that approach removes a considerable amount of time wasted on a computer in an attempt to make a photograph "acceptable". My post processing skills are more than up to the task of correcting those "faults" however some people say they like them left in - so generally, I leave my images as they are...unless some truly egregious lens blooper shows up.

In response to the concerns about the new rounded aperture - yes, the star effect will be diminished by this addition.


"Ants eye view" Pentax K10D - DA15mm f/4 ED ASPH

Last edited by Digitalis; 10-29-2013 at 07:05 AM.
10-29-2013, 08:58 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
I do some editing - but I'm a old school photographer, I don't like to rely on post processing too much and I do my best to get everything right in camera...
Whatever....

Personally, I'd never condemn a restaurant or cook or hen because I was too pure to enhance my scrambled eggs with just the right amount of salt and pepper. Particularly when it's readily available and only takes a moment...

Cheers... M

10-29-2013, 09:28 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Michaelina2 Quote
Whatever....

Personally, I'd never condemn a restaurant or cook or hen because I was too pure to enhance my scrambled eggs with just the right amount of salt and pepper. Particularly when it's readily available and only takes a moment...

Cheers... M
Rather strange comparison...
Anyway, it might be possible to get great picture quality from even the lowliest of lenses with the right amount of post-processing, the question is do I want to spend time sitting in front of the computer getting rid of the flaws or do I pick a lens that delivers what I want out-of-the-box.
IMO the only sensible way of judging lenses is by what they deliver naturally - otherwise it's rather pointless because you can change anything and everything with post-processing, so comparisons become completely meaningless.
10-29-2013, 01:54 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by sTi Quote
Rather strange comparison...
Anyway, it might be possible to get great picture quality from even the lowliest of lenses with the right amount of post-processing, the question is do I want to spend time sitting in front of the computer getting rid of the flaws or do I pick a lens that delivers what I want out-of-the-box.
IMO the only sensible way of judging lenses is by what they deliver naturally - otherwise it's rather pointless because you can change anything and everything with post-processing, so comparisons become completely meaningless.
Actually, I think it's a pretty good comparison. You can use the absolute best eggs available, but without the right finishing touches, they're probably going to be a bit bland. I've spent years getting my lens collection where it is now so that I can be in the absolute best starting position possible when I've taken a photo. Some obviously need more PP than others, but they pretty much all need something, even if it's just a tweak to the exposure or contrast or something. That's a big part of the wonder that is digital photography. It's anyone's prerogative if they want to forego that part of the process, but it just seems silly to do so. Sorta like starting your car with a hand-crank. Unless, of course, the process IS the end game for you, rather than the final result.
10-29-2013, 05:03 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by sTi Quote
As for toughness, I think they were talking in comparison to the "Aero Bright" nano coating, which is used on some internal elements in e.g. DA*55 or DA*60-250. IIRC, they also said that HD was "almost as good" as Aero Bright in terms of flare resistance - in other words it is slightly worse than what we already have in some lenses .
That sounds about right. As I recall, the executive or representative in question was explaining this in a sub-titled video; I wish I could find the video because I know it was fairly recent, probably within the last 18 months or so, and it coincided with a new product. Now that I think about it, it was very likely a discussion regarding the new 560mm lens. I was under the impression the coating resilience was mentioned because the other coating, presumably the Aero-Bright, was prone to damage during cleaning. However, that would suggest the AB coating could also be found on the outer elements. Perhaps only the rear element? I don't know...
10-30-2013, 02:26 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by LowVoltage Quote
I was under the impression the coating resilience was mentioned because the other coating, presumably the Aero-Bright, was prone to damage during cleaning. However, that would suggest the AB coating could also be found on the outer elements. Perhaps only the rear element? I don't know...
I'm not 100% sure, but I think in the DA*55 it's only found in one(!) internal element. If you look inside the lens under e.g. a bright lamp you can see that one of the internal lens surface reflections has a completely different color than the others, which is probably due to the different coating. Also, in the current PDF lens catalogue, which contains lens diagrams of all lenses, one element of the DA*55 is colored light orange. It is not explained what this color means, but it is different from the colors of Asphericals (green) and ED-Elements (blue):


By the way, the same is true for the very expensive Nikon AF-S 85/1.4G, which also proclaims to use a magic Nano-crystal coating, but it has been confirmed that it's only used on one single lens element.

10-30-2013, 08:54 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by sTi Quote
I'm not 100% sure, but I think in the DA*55 it's only found in one(!) internal element. If you look inside the lens under e.g. a bright lamp you can see that one of the internal lens surface reflections has a completely different color than the others, which is probably due to the different coating. Also, in the current PDF lens catalogue, which contains lens diagrams of all lenses, one element of the DA*55 is colored light orange. It is not explained what this color means, but it is different from the colors of Asphericals (green) and ED-Elements (blue):
Hmm, nice detective work! I'm glad you mentioned the other colors indicating the special elements, otherwise I would have thought the light orange reference one of the exotic glasses. Interestingly, your diagram shows the single AB coated element as the second-to-last piece of glass before a transmitted image strikes the camera sensor. I wonder if this is considered the "last best chance" to eliminate internal reflections from either within the lens or light reflecting off the sensor. As recently as a few years ago there were marketing materials from probably every manufacturer touting their "optimized for digital" lens designs - Hell, they probably still squawk about this. I'm willing to bet what you've shown here is a real-life demonstration of those efforts to be digitally optimized.
10-30-2013, 07:38 PM   #25
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No, in fact they could be worse...

QuoteOriginally posted by OldNoob Quote
Just noticing how similar the DL limited and the HD lenses look in design, yet with a bit of a price difference. Evidently it has something to do with the coatings but Will they truly have better definition? Any experience in this area yet?
The HD version could actually be worse, at least in the case of the DA 15/4 Ltd - see Pentax da 15 hd / smc thread where the HD with its rounded blades deadens the characteristic stars of the SMC version that Pentaxians like so much. And no discernible difference in flare reduction.


HD version



smc version

Original images and thread link (thanks mooeep).

Last edited by Gray; 10-30-2013 at 07:45 PM.
10-31-2013, 07:15 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by sTi Quote
in the current PDF lens catalogue
Do you have a link for this catalogue?
10-31-2013, 08:01 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by aristophanes Quote
your photos will be phenomenally sharper and far more colourful, even in black and white.

They will glow with an aura bestowed by angels and the difference will make people first wince, then stare, then drop down in awe.

Even just looking at these lenses with their rounded aperture lades and teasing red ring will make the mouth water and other glands arise.

It will be madness and joy and photographic fulfillment beyond all comprehension.

___ ___

_______
10-31-2013, 09:21 AM - 1 Like   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
Do you have a link for this catalogue?
Sure: http://c2b6d376b97bcc466063-5420c200a1f030d1394a9548df6eadbd.r5.cf2.rackcdn...._121912_LR.pdf

Edit: originally posted here: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/220954-new-...ml#post2341774
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