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11-15-2013, 11:11 PM   #16
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If you know what you're getting with the DA 14, it's a very capable lens. Just remember, a handful of examples does not a representative sample make (that goes for good or bad examples). Got a wonderful 20x30 print out of this picture with the DA 14:



11-16-2013, 01:00 AM   #17
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I also personally think that DA14 is a great lens, i dont think that image quality is greater in DA 15. Now i have DA 14, Sigma 10-20, and old manual k15 f3.5/ and i mostly use DA 14.
11-16-2013, 01:27 AM   #18
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Have you considered getting something lower cost like the Samyang 14mm (also goes by other names) to start with? That is a decent lens for very little money and would allow you to get some experience of what you want with little spending. You could then figure out whether you feelyou want something wider.
11-16-2013, 02:03 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by thechumpen Quote
Have you considered getting something lower cost like the Samyang 14mm (also goes by other names) to start with? That is a decent lens for very little money and would allow you to get some experience of what you want with little spending. You could then figure out whether you feelyou want something wider.
Hi, I am considering the samyang, but I really would like to be able to use filters.

11-16-2013, 02:31 AM   #20
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Right yeah, that is the drawback with it. I've seen various things saying that you wouldn't want to use CPL filters with something so wide but I can see why you may want to use ND filters. There are sites where people have created something but seems easier to just buy a lens that can take them in the first place if the price is OK for you. That's one of the reasons I like the sound of a collection of LTD lenses as I think they all take the same filter size from what I've seen.
11-16-2013, 02:36 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by thechumpen Quote
Right yeah, that is the drawback with it. I've seen various things saying that you wouldn't want to use CPL filters with something so wide but I can see why you may want to use ND filters. There are sites where people have created something but seems easier to just buy a lens that can take them in the first place if the price is OK for you. That's one of the reasons I like the sound of a collection of LTD lenses as I think they all take the same filter size from what I've seen.
They are, and they are small and cheap, which is a plus. All the other lenses, I think, have 77mm.
11-16-2013, 03:53 AM - 1 Like   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by rrstuff Quote
... I think 8-16 looks very appealing, but if I remember correctly, it does not take filters. I would like to put a big stopper on the lens some times. That's what drew me to DA 14mm. I am wondering though, specifically, what would I be missing out by not having a 12mm or 10mm focal length.

I did look at a number of examples, but I am not sure if the same images could be taken by stepping up one foot and using a 14mm instead of 12mm.

For example, a really nice shot with a prominent foreground done 35mm: 500px / The Last Ent by WK Cheoh
Here for example: 500px / Lost in the daily by Carlos M. Almagro and here a shot at 21mm (full frame) 500px / A cold autumn morning by Daniel PARAVISINI, gives a similar perspective and a similar prominent foreground. For me technically these pictures differ a lot (relative size of foreground and background), but qualitatively, for a viewer, they vary just a little.
The 8-16 does not really take a filter, for a couple of reasons. First the curvature of the front element is very extreme, which leads to the second - which is the field of view is extremely wide. Thus a filter would just wind up vignetting.

I find that the focal length is not a very good indication of what you are going to get in terms of composing shot using a UWA lens. The bottom line - the one, single measure end that this comes down to is the Angle of View that the lens provides you. So, here is a quick table. Also, with the examples that you have provided, you are essentially mixing apples and oranges - since they are images from a combination of cropped sensors and full frame. For instance 20mm on full frame is much different than 20mm on an APS sensor. You are looking at a mixture of lenses here - some full frame, while others are APS only.
FL (mm) - angle (ASP) - angle (FF)
8 - 112.6
9 - 106.3
10 - 100.4
11 - 95
12 - 90
13 - 85.4
14 - 81.2 - 104.3
15 - 77.3 - 100.4
I only provided the AoV for FF for 14 and 15mm because no one really makes a FF UWA rectilinear lens that is any wider. Fisheye lenses go to 180 degrees.

So, when you start to link to images for comparisons, sensor size matters a lot when dealing with UWA. Its just not a matter of a step back or forward - because you will probably destroy your composition using the foreground object. The entire point of UWA lenses is the breath of view that you are getting. How you apply that additional width is up to you the photographer. The lens is pulling in the additional view from around the edges - both sides and top / bottom as well as the corners, and essentially pushes the center farther back in to the background (to make room), thereby making the foreground much more important in the composition. You need to take all of this into consideration.

There is also a fundamental trade going on here. The trade that you are making is versatility of a zoom (a cross a range of focal lengths) against a single focal length with the potential faster aperture. That boils down to adding a degree of freedom in composition vs gathering more light faster for night sky images. If it was not for the star images, you could just leave your shutter open longer and you would get the same result - and you would be asking about tripods and heads.

QuoteOriginally posted by reeftool Quote
I have the DA 15 and while it does good landscapes, I find it a little too wide at times and I end up cropping. That's not bad as the lens is good enough but the 12-24 at the long end might be a good choice. A lot of people claim it's as sharp as a prime. It's also large and quite a bit heavier than the DA 15. One of the difficult things I found in choosing a wide lens is that all of the lenses you list are good. You can look through samples throughout the forum and find stunning shots from all of them. I went with the DA 15 for it's small size and light weight over the DA 12–24.
I have a couple of UWA lenses, 10-17FE, 8-16, 12-24, 16-45, 20, 25, 28. They are all very sharp for what they are. What do I mean by saying this. I believe that this is lost on a lot of folks when they start talking about UWA lenses. The sensor size stays the same. It does not get any larger. Of course you say. But stop and think about it for a minute. As you go wider, you are stuffing / cramming more view on to the same sensor. That means that every pixel on the sensor, now needs to represent a larger area (combination of width x height). Effectively what that is going to do, is to reduce sharpness. As you go wider, it is very occurs very slowly, but its there.

I was out shooting with my 12-24 and VERY happy with it. Just for grins - I put on my 31Ltd and took the same view and stitched them together. The difference in sharpness was startling. However, does that make the 12-24 any less sharp - NO!!! The reason why, is that the 12-24 crams view into a fixed size sensor, while stitching with the 31Ltd ADDs additional pixels to the resulting image. So, the comparison is essentially apples to oranges. But, when you compare images of the same scene from one focal length to another focal length, you will start to see the difference, along with the effects of the distortion.
QuoteOriginally posted by thechumpen Quote
Right yeah, that is the drawback with it. I've seen various things saying that you wouldn't want to use CPL filters with something so wide but I can see why you may want to use ND filters. There are sites where people have created something but seems easier to just buy a lens that can take them in the first place if the price is OK for you. That's one of the reasons I like the sound of a collection of LTD lenses as I think they all take the same filter size from what I've seen.
I know that you are looking to use a ND filter, but just wanted to add that beyond about 24mm a CPL only applies the polarization to PART of the scene. This is most apparent in the sky. Wider than about 24mm, the scene is too wide for the polarization to really be effective. Some folks like the effect, other don't.


Last edited by interested_observer; 11-16-2013 at 04:07 AM.
11-16-2013, 05:25 AM   #23
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I have been toying with the DA 15, because of its size, but just got the Sigma 10-20 [again]. I don't remember why I wasn't happy when I got last spring and returned it. But I love those wide shots. One thing that hasn't been suggested it to rent one and see if you like it.
Also, Samyang is supposed to coming out with a 10mm in the 1q 2014, but I got tired of waiting for it and went with the 10-20.

11-16-2013, 10:39 AM   #24
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I have been more than happy with my DA 12-24. You can see some early shots I took with it on my Flickr site here
11-16-2013, 12:11 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by rrstuff Quote
Originally posted by Adam
I wouldn't recommend the 14mm- it's not the sharpest tool in the shed. It should be plenty wide, but maybe you should look at the Pentax 12-24mm zoom instead. The DA 15mm is also great.
Yeah, number of people mention that. Did you have one? I am wondering if it is really not adequately sharp, or is it just for the sake of a pixel-peeping argument. I am just having a hard time understanding why would a Pentax build a poor lens, especially a prime.
If you like sharp, the 12-24 is the way to go. It's much sharper than the 15mm limited, which has field curvature big time. And, being a zoom, it's versatile.
11-16-2013, 08:23 PM   #26
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The main reason for getting the 15ltd over anything else is because it has awesome flare resistance. There is another pentax ultrawide on the roadmap which considering the current trend will likely be WR is shooting outdoors is a priority.
11-17-2013, 04:33 AM   #27
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If this is your first uwa, 14mm might be too wide. Try 16mm Samyang, Pentax DA 15mm, or the uwa Pentax zooms. Sigma and Tamron also make some uwa zooms that aren't bad.
11-17-2013, 08:33 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
I wouldn't recommend the 14mm- it's not the sharpest tool in the shed. It should be plenty wide, but maybe you should look at the Pentax 12-24mm zoom instead. The DA 15mm is also great.
wow, very different.......

I would recomment the DA14mm, it is a perfect tool.....



I'm not into landscaping, but the DA14mm I had was very good.
11-17-2013, 09:53 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
wow, very different.......
Doesn't mean you can't get good pictures with it!

Adam
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11-18-2013, 08:56 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnyates Quote
If you like sharp, the 12-24 is the way to go. It's much sharper than the 15mm limited, which has field curvature big time. And, being a zoom, it's versatile.
I am also looking at the DA15 12-24 10-17 or Sigma 10-20(not sure which version is better)...I want as much detail as possible, if its possible on APS-C..as also looking into FF & UWA..say A7r with??
have no chance to try any so must trust reviews..many say the 12-24 is as good as the 15...is that so?
is there something that UWA on FF can give soft corners??
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