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01-08-2014, 04:18 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Azzy Quote
Canon wins with their bigger lens selection and their pro bodies are currently the best if money is no concern.
But I did read that Nikon beats it hands down regarding IQ?

I don't know, can't bring myself to like Canon.

01-08-2014, 04:44 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
It's most likely a question of price- Zeiss lenses are expensive and Pentax currently caters to an audience more interested in value than the best that money can buy.
I think you're being kind, Adam. For what they offer in terms of image quality, Zeiss lenses seem to me to offer better value than the equivalent Leica lenses. In many instances, from some of the discussions here, Pentax shooters are more interested in price than value, and that's OK in itself, but we shouldn't confuse the two. Zeiss still make lenses in Leica M-mount, and there'd be far fewer Leica shooters around than Pentax ones. The difference is partly in disposable income between the two groups, but partly in willingness to pay the price on our side, even when the disposable income is available.

That said, even Voigtlander (Cosina) stopped making lenses in K-mount at around the same time as Zeiss did, and their price range was well below Zeiss territory. The only mitigating factor was that, at the same time, Voigtlander started making their range in Canon mount, so their decision was probably a production capacity one.

Hopefully, the recent surge in interest in Pentax, with the new APS-C bodies being released and the prospect of a 35FF body before much longer, will eventually bring both Voigtlander and Zeiss back in K-mount.
01-08-2014, 04:46 PM   #18
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When Zeiss exited Pentax, the 16-50 was still $600 or so.

The marginal utility of Zeiss over Pentax wasn't nearly as good then as it is now.
01-08-2014, 05:26 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Yes, certainly not brand snobbery.

Iirc, Zeiss provide the lenses for Samsung Galaxies and iPhones.
The lenses say "Zeiss" on the front, but they also say "Tessar" immediately afterwards, and I know a 5-element lens with aspheric surfaces is not really a Tessar as we think of them.

It's branding. Zeiss may have even played a role in the development of the formula, but I really doubt they actually have a hand in the manufacture, assembly, and quality control of each cell phone camera that goes out. Tight quality control was the real hallmark of Zeiss.

Regarding the topic, it's a question of demand. Pentax represents a small fraction of the market and it's not economical for Zeiss to cater to everyone, so they got dumped. That's one of the problems with relying on third party manufacturers for your high-end lenses. Sigma's been burning the midnight oil putting out crazy stuff lately, they almost certainly have something that will scratch your itch if you can get over the meaningless branding on the front of the lens. The "Zeiss" lenses lack autofocus and probably are made by Cosina anyway. Go buy a Sigma or a Samyang instead and buy yourself something nice with the change.

01-09-2014, 12:12 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Paul MaudDib Quote
Zeiss may have even played a role in the development of the formula, but I really doubt they actually have a hand in the manufacture, assembly, and quality control of each cell phone camera that goes out.
Sure, Paul, but they designed, and had built to (low) spec elsewhere new lenses because each contract was still financially worth their effort.

They obviously think that's not the case with Pentax, to go back to the OP.
01-09-2014, 01:52 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
That said, even Voigtlander (Cosina) stopped making lenses in K-mount at around the same time as Zeiss did
Might have something to do with Cosina being the maker for the Zeiss lenses.


Steve
01-09-2014, 02:38 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Might have something to do with Cosina being the maker for the Zeiss lenses.

Steve
If production capacity was the issue, then maybe. The margin on the Zeiss lenses that Cosina made would probably have been more incentive for Cosina, but I can't imagine the number of Pentax buyers would have added to the incentive for Zeiss.
01-09-2014, 03:37 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ploki Quote
If I wasn't getting a Pentax I'd probably get either a Nikon or a Sony. No idea where Canon gets its market share
People (general public not into photography) know Canon, they use their calculators, they use their photocopiers, they use their scanners, and when they walk into a camera store they see their logo.

People don't know Pentax, the name doesn't come up in the public eye very much at all beyond maybe seeing a tiny Pentax logo at the optometrist (glad to say that I look through Pentax lenses every day :P)



People these days usually start off with an iPhone, download instagram (then assume they're a professional) and take photos.
They then decide they need a better camera and buy an SLR since "that's what the professionals use" when the time comes to buy an entry level SLR, and if you've got very little knowldge of cameras, they often go for a familiar name "canon".
Once they've used the camera for a while and learned about photography they will tend to stay with that brand, it's familiar and they've already got lenses/chargers/cables.



Canon is much like Apple. They've marketed themselves very well and become a household name, they have devoutly almost religious fans, and they just keep growing since people want easy support, and support comes from commonality.

Think, you buy a Canon, don't know how to change aperture, there will always be somebody in the area who's used one and can help.


Meanwhile, you buy a Pentax, and you don't need to ask how to change the aperture because it uses a logical system that anybody can work out. (sorry, I hate Canon's ergonomics. A mate had borrowed one for a while, after two of us spent 30 minutes looking for a way to change the aperture we gave up. Later on that same mate bought a Nikon, took me about 20 seconds to work it out. obviously Pentax is easier for me since I've used them for 15 odd years)

01-09-2014, 06:21 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by hks_kansei Quote
Think, you buy a Canon, don't know how to change aperture, there will always be somebody in the area who's used one and can help.
Think...You buy a Pentax and don't know how to change the aperture. There will always be somebody on PentaxForums.com who will help.
(If nothing else, they may at least refer you to the manual )


Steve
01-13-2014, 04:22 PM   #25
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TL/DR

There isn't enough consumer demand.
01-14-2014, 04:52 PM   #26
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I think there's two sides to this. There isn't enough demand (there aren't enough Pentax shooters), and any demand there would be is reduced by the Pentax Ltd lens line-up. Cannikon and the rest don't really have access to an equivalent lens line-up, there may be a few of their lenses with similar IQ, but none with the build quality and handling. Given the option (and funds), Pentax users are more likely to buy an AF Ltd lens than a similar MF Zeiss one I'd have thought.

That said, Zeiss is a bespoke manufacturer with lower volumes of production than most, my guess is that if you spoke nicely to the factory (and gave them your credit card details), they'd probably be able to re-mount one for you?

John.
01-14-2014, 08:32 PM   #27
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Canon gets it's market share by catering to pro photographers, they have full frame cameras and great lenses to put on them. The first thing I did when I decided to upgrade to DSLR was to ask a pro that I knew which camera to buy. Without a second though he said Canon. Pros use Nikon as well but the bulk I know all shoot with Canon. I looked into Canon but a Pentax with some vintage lenses was the more cost effective route to get the kind of results I wanted. An endorsement from a professional is a huge boost to sales.

QuoteOriginally posted by Ploki Quote
I don't really understand why Pentax has such a small market share. I, coming from no-photography background (although we do have a few pentax cameras in the extended family circles) did a comparison on dpreview and figured that K-30 is clearly superior against its competition. Especially high-iso! You can see that in comparison photos with your eyes.

If I wasn't getting a Pentax I'd probably get either a Nikon or a Sony. No idea where Canon gets its market share
01-14-2014, 08:52 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnha Quote
That said, Zeiss is a bespoke manufacturer with lower volumes of production than most, my guess is that if you spoke nicely to the factory (and gave them your credit card details), they'd probably be able to re-mount one for you?
Or they could offer you one of these M42 lenses:

F-Mount Lenses | ZEISS United States

Disregard the page title, just scroll down to the chart and drool!
01-15-2014, 05:13 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Might have something to do with Cosina being the maker for the Zeiss lenses.


Steve
I will quote myself here and add that the Cosina origin for the Zeiss lenses might be the major consideration. Cosina has a fairly limited production capacity.* IIRC (it has been a few years, after all), the K-mount lenses disappeared about the same time that support for Canon EOS was added to the line. Ditto for the Voigtlander K-mount offerings.


Steve

* For anyone interested there is a video somewhere on this site and also drifting around the Web that features Voigtlander lens production at Cosina. The process is very labor intensive with much less automation than you might think.
01-16-2014, 09:11 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnha Quote
I think there's two sides to this. There isn't enough demand (there aren't enough Pentax shooters), and any demand there would be is reduced by the Pentax Ltd lens line-up. Cannikon and the rest don't really have access to an equivalent lens line-up, there may be a few of their lenses with similar IQ, but none with the build quality and handling. Given the option (and funds), Pentax users are more likely to buy an AF Ltd lens than a similar MF Zeiss one I'd have thought.

That said, Zeiss is a bespoke manufacturer with lower volumes of production than most, my guess is that if you spoke nicely to the factory (and gave them your credit card details), they'd probably be able to re-mount one for you?

John.
Hmm... I'm curious about this too.. Would you kindly try and contact them on it? ;P

I did try previously and they said that it is not possible though... :/

Maybe you could try and inquire if they would be kind enough to re-mount to a K mount if we were to purchase a Zeiss lens for another mount? Of course, with additional charges..
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