[stevebrot]

This site collected all official info about lenses and KMZ. Because of official site never had such info.

This site is the internet museum - this site has good reputation and trustworthy in Russia. It's built by formers office workers and engineers of KMZ.
ZENITcamera:

The site creator is the member of editorial staff of KMZ's scientific and technical journal
? ??????? «?????????»

Here is official site now
????????? ?????, ??????, ???????????, ???????, ???

I know Soviet lenses very good, because it's my youth.

My experience has been that zenitcamera.com has numerous factual inaccuracies and is often incomplete. I deem it useful, but not authoritative. That is not a bad thing since most online references for FSU and Russian photography gear suffer from the same issues. The only reason I made a comment is that I have seen posts on the Web where people quoted zenitcamera.com as being the KMZ Web site.

I have to admit that prior to this thread, I was personally pretty ignorant regarding FSU/Russian lenses in other than M42 mount. I knew they existed as normal lenses for the most recent Zenit SLRs, but that was the extent of it. We simply don't see these lenses very often in N. America. Heck! We don't see FSU/Russian gear in general that often, period! Those things are so much more common in Europe.


Steve

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Last edited by stevebrot; 01-17-2014 at 09:32 AM.

[KNG]

My experience has been that zenitcamera.com has numerous factual inaccuracies

This is a serious accusation. Please give examples.

[stevebrot]

This is a serious accusation. Please give examples.

Not an accusation, just an observation and not unexpected for an Internet resource. The example that immediately comes to my mind is the absence of the KMZ Helios 44M variant from the list of specifications at ZENITcamera.com: Helios 44. Why this lens is missing from zenitcamera.com when so many copies are in existence seems strange to me if the site is truly authoritative and complete. I was also puzzled that the Zenit E is stated as having the Industar 50 and Helios 44 as normal lenses while the (captioned) illustration indicates the Helios 44-2 as well. (ZENITcamera.com: Zenit E) From what I have been able to gather, all three lenses were sold attached to the Zenit E at one time or the other.

As noted in the footnotes throughout the site, diagrams and illustrations are often derived from other Web sites and not from KMZ-source materials. It is also not often clear as to what the actual sources are for various specifications. The "About" section is clear that the site is the work of a group of enthusiasts and has no official connection with KMZ and may not accurately represent what might actually be found in the field.

All that being said, I have found zenitcamera.com to be a VERY useful and exhaustive resource. I can think of one case in particular (filter threads on early 1960s version of Jupiter-9 in Contax/Kiev mount) where the product page provided the answer I was looking for and nobody (Fedka included) seemed to know anything. I consider the site to be a valuable resource to be used along with other such sites, but am always careful to state that information I have reposted from there is not from KMZ.


Steve

(...am small-time FSU enthusiast...3 rangefinder bodies...2 M42 lenses...7 rangefinder lenses...)

[KNG]

Not an accusation, just an observation...

I regarded it as the accusation... Please give examples of "numerous factual inaccuracies". Not a claims to incomplete data...

The example that immediately comes to my mind is the absence of the KMZ Helios 44M variant from the list of specifications...

At first: what version of this lens (marked as "Helios-44M") you have in mind? There are two variants. See the footnote No. 2 at the cited page.
At second, see also the Note 1: "Because of the huge number of versions... not all modifications of existing lenses are mentioned here."

I was also puzzled that the Zenit E is stated as having the Industar 50 and Helios 44 as normal lenses while the (captioned) illustration indicates the Helios 44-2 as well

Helios-44-2 is "Helios-44" type lens. Zenit-E was made nearly 20 years... As I understand, it is very difficult to list all variant for this Zenit's standard (supplied) lenses.

As noted in the footnotes throughout the site, diagrams and illustrations are often derived from other Web sites and not from KMZ-source materials.

Obviously because there are no such "KMZ-source" materials. Burned, discarded, destroyed... Have you ever thought about that?

I consider the site to be a valuable resource to be used along with other such sites, but am always careful to state that information I have reposted from there is not from KMZ.

Nobody will provide more accurate information. Unfortunately, the information from the official source is the most erroneous now. The time is out of joint...

[KNG]

At second, see also the Note 1: "Because of the huge number of versions... not all modifications of existing lenses are mentioned here."

In addition:
For example, what a differences between Helios-44 (subnumber 152) and Helios-44 (subnumber 353) or Helios-44-2 (subnumber 033) and Helios-44-2 (subnumber 093)? Nobody know this now. Mention of these variants, as I understand, would only confusing.
Do you know anything about Helios-44M1 and Helios-44M-1 (are different lenses!), Helios-44-M2 and Helios-44-2M (are different lenses!), Helios-44-TV, Helios-44-E (44-Э, for export?), MC Helios-44MN, Helios-44-4, Helios-44K lenses etc., etc.?..
One can write a whole book to listing all these variants (and all his life to describe them).

[stevebrot]

At first: what version of this lens (marked as "Helios-44M") you have in mind?

The one that is so very common (do an eBay search...so much for "limited edition" per the footnote). The one with eight aperture blades, automatic aperture, and silver A/M switch at the base. The one that simply says Helios-44M (Гелиос-44М) on the lens face, just like the one on my shelf.

The reason why I brought this particular point up is that a common question on this site is whether the 44M has equivalent performance to the 44M-4. The 44M is generally preferred due to the A/M switch and higher (8) diaphragm blade count. The 44M-4 has only six blades and requires modification to work adapted on Pentax cameras. People go to ZENITcamera and can't find the specs for the 44M and wonder why. I tell them that the site is useful, but not complete and may not be completely accurate or consistent (e.g. the normal lens list for the Zenit E mentioned above). I then tell them that I have used both lenses and found them to be equivalent optically (https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/67775-sibli...s-44m-4-a.html).

As I also mentioned above, ZENITcamera is an exhaustive and very useful tool. I use it in conjunction with other enthusiast sites such as http://www.sovietcams.com/ and value its content and respect the amount of work that has gone into creating it. I also appreciate the attempts to fully footnote the articles and provide references where available.

From the nature of your response, I take it that you have been active in the creation and/or operation of zenitcamera.com. If so, I am glad that you are a member of this forum. We frequently get questions regarding Soviet/Russian cameras and lenses and I may ask you for answers.


Steve

[ogl]

Not an accusation, just an observation and not unexpected for an Internet resource. The example that immediately comes to my mind is the absence of the KMZ Helios 44M variant from the list of specifications at ZENITcamera.com: Helios 44. Why this lens is missing from zenitcamera.com when so many copies are in existence seems strange to me if the site is truly authoritative and complete. I was also puzzled that the Zenit E is stated as having the Industar 50 and Helios 44 as normal lenses while the (captioned) illustration indicates the Helios 44-2 as well. (ZENITcamera.com: Zenit E) From what I have been able to gather, all three lenses were sold attached to the Zenit E at one time or the other.

I don't undestand you. Here is the specs of Helios - 44-2 and 44M - the difference is just in type of aperture. M - instant-return diaphragm
ZENITcamera:

The production was shifted to another plants - Valdai Optical plant Jupiter and to BELOMO (Belarus).
Minsk mechanical plant also produced HELIOS.

KMZ cut HELIOS production in the late eighties.

[ogl]

People go to ZENITcamera and can't find the specs for the 44M and wonder why. I

No any sense. 44M is Helios 44-2 historically based on Biotar 2/58 (Carl Zeiss Jena) with instant-return diaphragm.
The same optical design and resolution. The difference are filter diameter (52 mm vs 49 mm) and body design.

Here is 44M and 44-2.

BUT...It's M42 lenses.

[ogl]

Here is remark at the site -

1) Because of many versions of this lens we put not ALL data of ALL lenses. The data could differ a bit.

[Na Horuk]

I think Peleng also makes a couple?
The modern Mitakon manual lenses might have designs/quality similar to Soviet lenses, but I don't think they are actually made in Russia