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02-03-2014, 07:50 PM - 1 Like   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
It is sample variation and test variation. If you test three copies of a lens you may get three different results. If you run the same test on the same lens three times, you will get three results. That doesn't negate the usefulness of the test.
Well that's where you and I differ. An unreliable test, whether it be from sample variation or whatever reason, should not be reported as fact. IN fact to me, that's why I call them frauds. Bad data is worse than no data. Bad data as posted on their site could have you thinking one lens is better than another, based on one great sample of a bad lens, and a bad sample of a good lens. Or they could convince you that "“a 12 MPix full-format camera is sharper than an 18 MPix APS,”... there's just too much information that's untrue. Like reading a historical novel, it's based on a few facts, interpreted very loosely. Definitely not to be taken as authoritative.

02-04-2014, 01:08 AM   #32
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I think quite amusing the assumption that web developers are programmers in their spare time.
I see no correlation between the twaddle peddled as science on their web site and the solid optical algorithms inside DXo.

As you say as soon as 'data' is hidden I smell a rat.

If I said 'xxx camera is the best in the world because it has 95 andy points' you'd consider me off my trolley, But DxO does exactly this and is feighted for their ability!!

Just shows you 'emperors clothes' are still golden in most peoples eyes.
02-04-2014, 01:51 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
It is sample variation and test variation. If you test three copies of a lens you may get three different results. If you run the same test on the same lens three times, you will get three results. That doesn't negate the usefulness of the test.
It does not negate the test if you state your sample size and give an indication of the spread of your results or of your confidence in them. If you don't, then your numbers are just some meaningless averages, as the DxO ones are.
02-04-2014, 11:33 AM   #34
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wall photographers

As I tried to explain. DxO Mark is for wall photographers. Carl Benz in photography world. In other words, ppl who bother too much about theory and shoot 1 picture of wall per year. For real life pro, this data doesn't mean anything. It is just foundation for DxO algorithms. As I have said, it is made in controlled test condition.

One of reasons why I have left Pentax system 4 years ago is lack of lenses and pro features. I used to have Pentax K-7. Lenses are biggest problem with Pentax. Pentax DSLR focuses on hobby market thus there is no expectation for real life photography.

As someone had said DxO doesn't consider Pentax photo system as pro tool so they don't invest too much money in testing Pentax combinations. On other hand Canon and Nikon is well covered in almost every wildest possible camera lens combination.

I know that I have set camera for RAW output with consistent settings. During photo session I bother only about correct exposure and pre-visualisation. I don't have time to tinker with camera setting during taking pictures due quick change of light conditions. When I got back to base camp, I upload and backup pictures. Start up DxO and it spits every 30s 6 images of corrected pictures. Done. Quicker than getting it done on the place and play with useless and chaotic settings of every camera even with pro cameras.

Botom line, every picture needs 30s of post-processing. Job done, I can move on at next project. Unless, it is fine art and it needs further processing in Adobe PS. Once again....DxO spits every 30s corrected TIFF, ready for local adjustments.

With Aperture or Lightroom. It takes ages, too many useless features that nobody uses except e-experts and wall-photographers. Whole work flow is pain in a*s. I rather shoot than bother about post-processing like most ppl do. Ever lasting "problem" since dawn of photography. Lenses are pish, cameras are rubbish. Everything is rubbish for amateurs since it is easier to blame everyone else rather than incompetence in focusing right, getting composition right. But god bless these ppl since I can buy cheap photo gear.

02-04-2014, 07:37 PM   #35
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QuoteQuote:
Botom line, every picture needs 30s of post-processing. Job done, I can move on at next project. Unless, it is fine art and it needs further processing in Adobe PS. Once again....DxO spits every 30s corrected TIFF, ready for local adjustments.
Using my presets in Aperture I rarely take more than 15s per image... but hey, whatever...
02-05-2014, 01:35 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by sniper29a Quote
I rather shoot than bother about post-processing like most ppl do.
<long rant snipped>

An interesting point of view from a 'real life pro'. The 'sausage factory method' ? Aren't you missing half of the fun of photography ?

I must be an exception ...
02-05-2014, 12:46 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Using my presets in Aperture I rarely take more than 15s per image... but hey, whatever...
Question is what Aperture does? There was long outcry about DxO performance. 1min per image is too long for some ppl who doesn't understand that DxO will make "perfect" image from shit photo system combination.

If you like Aperture. Good for you. I have tried few years ago, but not impressed by results. Same problem like Adobe Product. Closest call is Capture One SW.

Question is how big picture do you print? If you print A4 - A3 there is no need for any SW. It doesn't matter. Anything bigger is where DxO kicks in.

Don't worry about theory and some synthetic wall tests. Just try it without prejudice and you might be surprised.
02-05-2014, 12:48 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by kh1234567890 Quote
<long rant snipped>

An interesting point of view from a 'real life pro'. The 'sausage factory method' ? Aren't you missing half of the fun of photography ?

I must be an exception ...
What half do you mean? Spending hours in front of computer instead of shooting?

02-05-2014, 12:56 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by sniper29a Quote
What half do you mean? Spending hours in front of computer instead of shooting?
I enjoy post processing. Hopefully getting my photos to match my vision. Happens sometimes. Often it doesn't, but I really don't mind spending time working on the images.
02-05-2014, 01:00 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by sniper29a Quote
Question is what Aperture does? There was long outcry about DxO performance. 1min per image is too long for some ppl who doesn't understand that DxO will make "perfect" image from shit photo system combination.
You sound like a salesman. Trash the competition, pitch your product. I find it hard to believe there is software that understands what I'm trying for with every image I produce. How does it know if Im going for high contrast or pastel? Sharpness or soft and fuzzy. Sometimes I like my small bird images with soft natural looking feather detail and sometimes I like it sharpened to the max. DxO knows which is which? You make it sound like there is some formula for the "perfect" picture that everyone would follow if they were only as smart as DxO.

QuoteQuote:
If you like Aperture. Good for you. I have tried few years ago, but not impressed by results. Same problem like Adobe Product. Closest call is Capture One SW.
Ya, I probably have invested more time understanding it than you did, plus picked up a book or two etc to understand the inner workings. The thing with Aperture is, it's not that easy to use, but once you put the work in to understand it, you can preset everything and have the work done in seconds.

QuoteQuote:
Question is how big picture do you print? If you print A4 - A3 there is no need for any SW. It doesn't matter. Anything bigger is where DxO kicks in.
I print 20x30 inches, is that big enough?

QuoteQuote:
Don't worry about theory and some synthetic wall tests. Just try it without prejudice and you might be surprised.
I tend to spend a bit of time learning the software I use... you're talking about an investment in time just to try it out. You have to show me how it's worth my while before I make that investment. And as I said, of the 10 lenses I use on a regular basis, DxO supports 3 of them on Pentax cameras.
02-05-2014, 01:55 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by sniper29a Quote
1min per image is too long for some ppl who doesn't understand that DxO will make "perfect" image from shit photo system combination.
Not in my experience. I'm glad that it works for you.

Now go away - this thread is about dubious DxO lens testing procedures and results, not about their image processing software.
02-06-2014, 03:43 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by kh1234567890 Quote
Not in my experience. I'm glad that it works for you.

Now go away - this thread is about dubious DxO lens testing procedures and results, not about their image processing software.
No, this is totally ontopic. The results of the DxO "dubious" testing procedures are used in their image processing software. They use different correction parameters for eacht camera+lens combination. Dubious methods or not, they do seem to work pretty well. So, either their testing is not as dubious as claimed, or they get the parameters for the corrections elsewhere... Which would only be extra dubious, imho.
02-06-2014, 06:38 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
No, this is totally ontopic. The results of the DxO "dubious" testing procedures are used in their image processing software. They use different correction parameters for eacht camera+lens combination. Dubious methods or not, they do seem to work pretty well. So, either their testing is not as dubious as claimed, or they get the parameters for the corrections elsewhere... Which would only be extra dubious, imho.
The results beeing questioned are the score and list of best lenses, not image output from the software.
02-06-2014, 06:48 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by retroflex Quote
The results beeing questioned are the score and list of best lenses, not image output from the software.
Exactly.

DxO output is being discussed over here.... <click here>
02-06-2014, 07:12 AM   #45
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LOL!

QuoteOriginally posted by retroflex Quote
The results beeing questioned are the score and list of best lenses, not image output from the software.
QuoteOriginally posted by kh1234567890 Quote
this thread is about dubious DxO lens testing procedures and results,
Do you think they use different lens testing procedures between their scoring and their image processing software? Now that would be something...
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