Good, budget lenses?

Boris_Akunin · 02-04-2014, 07:42 PM

Originally posted by boriscleto

M, A, F, FA, all the same optically.

There may be differences in coatings and manufacturing tolerances, though.

normhead · 02-04-2014, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by boriscleto

M, A, F, FA, all the same optically.

Aperture automation adds several benefits, like flash automation. The F and FA add autofocus and have a recessed front element, practically a built-in lens hood. The FA also adds the MTF program line in Hyper-Program mode.

Ah yes, but there's always sample variation.

ausmoose · 02-04-2014, 08:58 PM

Wow, so many more posts!!

Thanks for all this advice - a lot great recommendations now!

I just saw M was cheaper and am fine with doing stuff manually - I actually prefer it - and although I haven't had an aperture ring before with one lens that is completely fine too.

thanks again for all the responses - it makes my decisions a lot easier. When I do eventually buy a lens(es) I'll post some photos I took with it/them!

Boris_Akunin · 02-04-2014, 09:14 PM

Originally posted by ausmoose

Wow, so many more posts!!

Thanks for all this advice - a lot great recommendations now!

I just saw M was cheaper and am fine with doing stuff manually - I actually prefer it - and although I haven't had an aperture ring before with one lens that is completely fine too.

thanks again for all the responses - it makes my decisions a lot easier. When I do eventually buy a lens(es) I'll post some photos I took with it/them!

I guess, the giveaway is working...

ausmoose · 02-04-2014, 09:20 PM

Originally posted by Boris_Akunin

I guess, the giveaway is working...

It's working for you, that's for sure

And for me

but not quite so well (unfortunately I don't seem to have the best luck with raffles, but fingers crossed!)

ChristianRock · 02-05-2014, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by j2photos

I dont think I have a side by side comparison but my M50 1.7 was optically superior to my A50 1.7 leading me to sell the A variant.

I have no logical explanation for this, as they are supposed to be identical optically-wise, but I did exactly the same thing - sold the A, kept the M.

j2photos · 02-05-2014, 09:58 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by ChristianRock

I have no logical explanation for this, as they are supposed to be identical optically-wise, but I did exactly the same thing - sold the A, kept the M.

FINALLY someone who doesnt think I am crazy!

Thank you!

**boriscleto** · 02-05-2014, 10:08 AM

And I sold the M because I had acquired an Auto Sears MC 50/1.7 (Chinon clone), that I considered to be just as good, and had 2 A 50/1.7s and an A 50/1.4.

I also have a FA 50/1.7 and another M 50/1.7 somehow found its way into my collection (I seem to remember it was attached to a KX and the two only cost $25)...

Not quite perfect because the focus points are different...

Sears @ 1.7 & 2.8
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Pentax A

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Pentax M

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normhead · 02-05-2014, 10:27 AM

Having a few M and A lenses, I have to say.. "I wouldn't use an M or A lens unless I couldn't get an AF lens", is a perfectly understandable opinion. AF is a wonderful thing. There are times with small birds when I have to take the A-400 off the camera and shoot with the much shorter 60-250, because the choice is AF or no images, because I can't lock focus as fast as the AF system does. When these kinds of conversations degenerate into endless discussions on the values of non-AF lenses, it can become a little pointless.

Our one F lens, an F-80-210, shakes the whole camera when the AF comes to a stop, and practically rips the camera out of your hand. All these older lenses can suffer from purple fringing and uncontrolled CA. It's nice having a few non AF lenses around, but I certainly wouldn't recommend getting them first.

Truth in advertising here, when you recommend an older lens, tell us what's been improved since it was released. Assuming a guy happy with a DA 18-135 with it's quick silent AF, correction for CA and fringing is going to be happy with an M series lens, might be a bit of a reach.

ChristianRock · 02-05-2014, 10:28 AM

I also have the Auto Sears 50 1.7. It's actually a rebadged Ricoh lens. I agree that its rendering is better than the Pentax 50 1.7s that I have owned (A and M). But the M 50 1.7 is just as good, as it makes up in different areas due to SMC coating, I guess, and I like its colors a little better.

**boriscleto** · 02-05-2014, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by ChristianRock

I also have the Auto Sears 50 1.7. It's actually a rebadged Ricoh lens.

there are at least 2 different versions. Most Sears SLRs were rebadged Ricohs, but the KSX-P was a rebadged Chinon. The lens I have was the kit lens for that camera. Look for the Auto Chinon 50/1.7 k-mount in the database.

ChristianRock · 02-05-2014, 11:36 AM

Ah ok, that makes sense, Boris!

Sagitta · 02-05-2014, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by boriscleto

there are at least 2 different versions. Most Sears SLRs were rebadged Ricohs, but the KSX-P was a rebadged Chinon. The lens I have was the kit lens for that camera. Look for the Auto Chinon 50/1.7 k-mount in the database.

I have both. The Chinon seems superior, though my copy was beat to hell before I acquired it. They're easy enough to tell apart.

The Chinon is on top (white print), the Ricoh on the bottom (red print). The biggest cosmetic difference is the filter size is smaller on the Chinon at 49mm. The Chinon is slightly larger though in profile, but has a shorter minimal throw distance.

And a side view.

The Chinon also has slightly more curved blades, though I can't say how that effects the bokeh to be honest as I've never really tested them out head to head beyond a few test shots.

Chinon is on the right here.

jakeblues · 02-05-2014, 12:31 PM

Originally posted by Dr Orloff

For landscape M28mm f3.5

This was the first lens that came to my mind as well. It's very sharp and very good.

+1 on the M50/1.7 recommendation. It's one of the best of the M series. I sold mine after I got the M50/1.4, and I regret giving it up.

**paulh** · 02-05-2014, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by ChristianRock

Originally posted by j2photos Quote I dont think I have a side by side comparison but my M50 1.7 was optically superior to my A50 1.7 leading me to sell the A variant. I have no logical explanation for this, as they are supposed to be identical optically-wise, but I did exactly the same thing - sold the A, kept the M.

I have both, and plan on keeping both!

The A is more convenient, but the M is a sentimental favorite, having taken some memorable shots with it.

02-05-2014, 10:08 AM	#38
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,475	And I sold the M because I had acquired an Auto Sears MC 50/1.7 (Chinon clone), that I considered to be just as good, and had 2 A 50/1.7s and an A 50/1.4. I also have a FA 50/1.7 and another M 50/1.7 somehow found its way into my collection (I seem to remember it was attached to a KX and the two only cost $25)... Not quite perfect because the focus points are different... Sears @ 1.7 & 2.8 Pentax A Pentax M Last edited by boriscleto; 02-05-2014 at 10:16 AM.

02-05-2014, 10:27 AM	#39
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Having a few M and A lenses, I have to say.. "I wouldn't use an M or A lens unless I couldn't get an AF lens", is a perfectly understandable opinion. AF is a wonderful thing. There are times with small birds when I have to take the A-400 off the camera and shoot with the much shorter 60-250, because the choice is AF or no images, because I can't lock focus as fast as the AF system does. When these kinds of conversations degenerate into endless discussions on the values of non-AF lenses, it can become a little pointless. Our one F lens, an F-80-210, shakes the whole camera when the AF comes to a stop, and practically rips the camera out of your hand. All these older lenses can suffer from purple fringing and uncontrolled CA. It's nice having a few non AF lenses around, but I certainly wouldn't recommend getting them first. Truth in advertising here, when you recommend an older lens, tell us what's been improved since it was released. Assuming a guy happy with a DA 18-135 with it's quick silent AF, correction for CA and fringing is going to be happy with an M series lens, might be a bit of a reach. Last edited by normhead; 02-05-2014 at 10:32 AM.

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02-04-2014, 07:42 PM	#31
Boris_Akunin Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Bremen, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 674	Originally posted by boriscleto M, A, F, FA, all the same optically. There may be differences in coatings and manufacturing tolerances, though.

02-04-2014, 07:56 PM	#32
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by boriscleto M, A, F, FA, all the same optically. Aperture automation adds several benefits, like flash automation. The F and FA add autofocus and have a recessed front element, practically a built-in lens hood. The FA also adds the MTF program line in Hyper-Program mode. Ah yes, but there's always sample variation.

02-04-2014, 08:58 PM	#33
ausmoose Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Sydney, NSW Photos: Albums Posts: 968 Original Poster	Wow, so many more posts!! Thanks for all this advice - a lot great recommendations now! I just saw M was cheaper and am fine with doing stuff manually - I actually prefer it - and although I haven't had an aperture ring before with one lens that is completely fine too. thanks again for all the responses - it makes my decisions a lot easier. When I do eventually buy a lens(es) I'll post some photos I took with it/them!

02-04-2014, 09:14 PM	#34
Boris_Akunin Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Bremen, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 674	Originally posted by ausmoose Wow, so many more posts!! Thanks for all this advice - a lot great recommendations now! I just saw M was cheaper and am fine with doing stuff manually - I actually prefer it - and although I haven't had an aperture ring before with one lens that is completely fine too. thanks again for all the responses - it makes my decisions a lot easier. When I do eventually buy a lens(es) I'll post some photos I took with it/them! I guess, the giveaway is working...

02-04-2014, 09:20 PM	#35
ausmoose Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Sydney, NSW Photos: Albums Posts: 968 Original Poster	Originally posted by Boris_Akunin I guess, the giveaway is working... It's working for you, that's for sure And for me but not quite so well (unfortunately I don't seem to have the best luck with raffles, but fingers crossed!)

02-05-2014, 09:45 AM	#36
ChristianRock Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: People's Republic of America Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,910	Originally posted by j2photos I dont think I have a side by side comparison but my M50 1.7 was optically superior to my A50 1.7 leading me to sell the A variant. I have no logical explanation for this, as they are supposed to be identical optically-wise, but I did exactly the same thing - sold the A, kept the M.

02-05-2014, 09:58 AM - 1 Like	#37
j2photos Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Manteca, CA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,653	Originally posted by ChristianRock I have no logical explanation for this, as they are supposed to be identical optically-wise, but I did exactly the same thing - sold the A, kept the M. FINALLY someone who doesnt think I am crazy! Thank you!

02-05-2014, 10:28 AM	#40
ChristianRock Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: People's Republic of America Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,910	I also have the Auto Sears 50 1.7. It's actually a rebadged Ricoh lens. I agree that its rendering is better than the Pentax 50 1.7s that I have owned (A and M). But the M 50 1.7 is just as good, as it makes up in different areas due to SMC coating, I guess, and I like its colors a little better.

02-05-2014, 11:33 AM	#41
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,475	Originally posted by ChristianRock I also have the Auto Sears 50 1.7. It's actually a rebadged Ricoh lens. there are at least 2 different versions. Most Sears SLRs were rebadged Ricohs, but the KSX-P was a rebadged Chinon. The lens I have was the kit lens for that camera. Look for the Auto Chinon 50/1.7 k-mount in the database.

02-05-2014, 11:36 AM	#42
ChristianRock Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: People's Republic of America Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,910	Ah ok, that makes sense, Boris!

02-05-2014, 12:27 PM	#43
Sagitta Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Maine Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,081	Originally posted by boriscleto there are at least 2 different versions. Most Sears SLRs were rebadged Ricohs, but the KSX-P was a rebadged Chinon. The lens I have was the kit lens for that camera. Look for the Auto Chinon 50/1.7 k-mount in the database. I have both. The Chinon seems superior, though my copy was beat to hell before I acquired it. They're easy enough to tell apart. The Chinon is on top (white print), the Ricoh on the bottom (red print). The biggest cosmetic difference is the filter size is smaller on the Chinon at 49mm. The Chinon is slightly larger though in profile, but has a shorter minimal throw distance. And a side view. The Chinon also has slightly more curved blades, though I can't say how that effects the bokeh to be honest as I've never really tested them out head to head beyond a few test shots. Chinon is on the right here.

02-05-2014, 12:31 PM	#44
jakeblues Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Los Angeles Photos: Albums Posts: 167	Originally posted by Dr Orloff For landscape M28mm f3.5 This was the first lens that came to my mind as well. It's very sharp and very good. +1 on the M50/1.7 recommendation. It's one of the best of the M series. I sold mine after I got the M50/1.4, and I regret giving it up.

02-05-2014, 12:57 PM	#45
paulh Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: DFW Texas/Ventura County, CA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 33,271	Originally posted by ChristianRock Originally posted by j2photos Quote I dont think I have a side by side comparison but my M50 1.7 was optically superior to my A50 1.7 leading me to sell the A variant. I have no logical explanation for this, as they are supposed to be identical optically-wise, but I did exactly the same thing - sold the A, kept the M. I have both, and plan on keeping both! The A is more convenient, but the M is a sentimental favorite, having taken some memorable shots with it.