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02-26-2014, 12:41 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Canada_Rockies Quote
Fred, the advantage of the 12-24 is the variable angle of view. You must work with it to be in the right place and at the right viewing angle on the lens to create the photo you want. I remember a friend who saw me working my MZ-S and FA 24-90 on some water lilies and he commented that he didn't know taking flower pictures could be such good stretching exercises. For me, I don't see much advantage of the 15 prime over the 12-24. The IQ on the 12-24 is very good. My latest sale was a 16x24 gallery wrap taken at 12mm. The client is really pleased.
Thanks C_R (and to j2..., as well). I couldn't pass up the 12-24mm (mine is the Schneider-K. iteration, which I love for having the old school diamond pattern rubber rings -- it just goes so well with all my vintage Pentax/Tak./Nikkor primes). I consider that and the HD DA 70mm probably my "core" Pentax lenses, given the fact that you can't really duplicate the same from Canikon! I'm extremely curious about that rumored 12-28mm next gen.version. I certainly hope it has the close-focus capabilities of the Tokina. I'm asking the camera fairy to please make Ricoh Imaging price that one "competitively".

Assuming the CA of the 12-24mm can be dealt with in post, with limitations, I have to view the 15 Limited as something of a $$-luxury option for landscape and other "set-up" work, given the dumbfounding (to me) absence of IQ-prioritized (!) 28mm FF-equivalent contemporary primes to complement it -- pancak-i-ness rules the roost for some reason at the most versatile (?) of all wide angle focal lengths/angles of view. To the detriment of maximizing IQ, I'd say. Pentax, Canikon, Fuji, Olympus, Nex/Alpha -- you name it. I just don't get it. Not even Nikon full frame gives you a truly field-totable, relatively flat field 28mm prime, so I cling to my Nikkor 28mm/2.0 AI... and 35mm/2.0 AI-S... and 40mm CV Ultron SL-IIn and wait to see what the future brings. And for landscape and such, I'm about to turn into the next RioRico here when the new K-3 arrives (as a semi-retired designer, I have a somewhat new slant in mind on adapting the Nikkors when I get ambitious enough to follow through).

---------- Post added 02-26-14 at 03:05 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by blackcloudbrew Quote
YMMV

a) The DA15limited f4 is a well reviewed and much hallowed lens and I can not offer any more than has already been said about this lens other than it comes with magic pixy dust that makes all photos better. Compared to the DA 12-24 f4, there are differences (besides size and focal length). My experience is that the DA 15 is just sharper and deals with contrast better than the 12-24. But the 12-24 is better - for me - at a lot of things like buildings. It's a rectilinear lens and while no t/s lens, works better than the 15. The 12-24 has some occasional distortion issues at 12mm.

b) Well the DA*16-50 is weatherized and that's a big plus. It has the possibility of issues with SDM failure somewhere in it's life (I've had mine since 2009 and it's been to the shop once). But as an f2.8 constant aperture lens with the best coatings and glass Pentax makes, it's just my personal favorite lens for general shooting period, and I have nice primes too. It like all SDM lenses has it's detractors but if I want to go out on a shoot with just 2 lenses in all kinds of weather and conditions and have quality results, the combination of the DA*16-50 f2.8 and the DA*50-135 f2.8 are killer IMHO. I will say that at 16mm's with a CPL on I can get vignetting. Interestingly enough another online friend is considering replacing their 16-50 with the HD 20-40 limited zoom. That experiment is yet to conclude but it's clearly an option.
Great response, and much appreciated! Interesting comments on the somewhat ineffable virtues of the DA 15 Limited. Yes, I'm pretty familiar with all the downside issues related to Pentax lenses reported here on the forum. All in all, you can know exactly what you want... but you don't get to order from columns on a Chinese menu to get it; not in this life. I can see in my dreams a Sigma 17-35mm f.2.4 for Pentax, 6 ounces lighter and even better corrected, for the same $799! Ha, ha -- think they'll listen?


Last edited by Kayaker-J; 02-26-2014 at 12:47 PM.
02-26-2014, 01:06 PM   #17
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I find me using four prime lenses: all manual focus.
a-24/2,8
b-35/2,8
c-58/1,2
d-100/2 or 180/3,4

All my street pics are covered by them
02-26-2014, 01:28 PM   #18
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The DA 12-24 is a very good, very versatile lens. I only use manual exposure so the constant aperture is important.

02-26-2014, 01:38 PM   #19
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Great shots! I see a little distortion at the edges, similar to what I get with my DA15 on close group portraits. But I enjoy that characteristic of ultra wide lenses.

02-26-2014, 02:25 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by waterfall Quote
Great shots! I see a little distortion at the edges, similar to what I get with my DA15 on close group portraits. But I enjoy that characteristic of ultra wide lenses.
Especially when your holding it above your head as far as you can reach and pointing down!

Except for the travel stuff, the rest was event coverage for a local online publication, no time for step ladders or tilt-shift lenses. The story is the thing. I'm walking through crowds with two bodies, one wide lens and one longer. Always in manual, figure a base exposure and adjust from that, pretty much forgetting the camera. It's very fast and intuitive. The 12-24 lets you get close.

Last edited by Brooke Meyer; 12-03-2014 at 09:18 PM.
02-26-2014, 02:35 PM   #21
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Looks like a very fun event. I'll have to consider the 12-24 for my kit. Thank you for showing the photos.
02-26-2014, 03:15 PM   #22
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Many people like the DA16-45 as a budget option here, because (unlike many zooms) it's fairly good at the wide end.

As far as overall Image Quality (but I'm not sure that either's that great at the wide end) the DA18-135 outdoes the DA18-55.



But if you're looking for very good IQ at the wide end, best choices are (roughly in order of preference, assuming the focal length is what you're looking for):

DA15
Sigma 8-16
DA10-17
Samyang (or Rokinon or about half a dozen other names) 14/2.8, 16/2, or (forthcoming) 10/2.8.


Any other lenses I can think of don't quite cut it, IMO. The DA12-24 may come close, but I think it's not quite good enough, especially considering the price. The above mentioned Samyangs just make the cut, partly because of their relatively reasonable prices.



Unfortunately, there are no great bargains to be had in quality wide angle lenses for APS-C. This is mainly because the 1.5x crop factor means there are no older lenses available in these focal lengths. So you can find some good bargains at most other focal lengths, but at the wide end you'll just have to spend more money if you want high IQ.
02-26-2014, 04:01 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by waterfall Quote
Can't go wrong with DA 15 Ltd or the DA 21 Ltd.
I second this recommendation DA 15 and DA21 limiteds are two of my favorite wide angle lenses. Well built and ultra compact too. If I need more reach the DA 40mm fills in. Good used ones can be found at marketplace here or KEH.com

02-26-2014, 04:07 PM   #24
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Well the 21mm Ltd has a nice FOV of 62.4 degrees, 35mm equivalent of 32mm. Less distortion at edges with closeups than the Magical 15. I have both and switch several times each day. The 15 has Pixie Dust. The 21 to my eyes has superior color rendition. So I have both and love both and they complement each other. But for wide landscapes, I always choose the 15. The sharpness is useful for 100% crops to snap onto a mid distant subject.
02-27-2014, 09:17 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by DSims Quote
But if you're looking for very good IQ at the wide end, best choices are (roughly in order of preference, assuming the focal length is what you're looking for): DA15 Sigma 8-16 DA10-17 Samyang (or Rokinon or about half a dozen other names) 14/2.8, 16/2, or (forthcoming) 10/2.8. Any other lenses I can think of don't quite cut it, IMO. The DA12-24 may come close, but I think it's not quite good enough, especially considering the price.
Actually, all the ultra wides available for the K-Mount are pretty good. Nor would I say that the DA 12-24 is "not quite good enough," even when factoring in the price (the DA 12-24 is only $100 more expensive than the HD version of the DA 15). Indeed, I've seen nothing online from the Samyang 16/2 or 14/2.8 or the Sigma 8-16 to suggest that they are in the same league as the DA 12-24. The DA 10-17 may have comparable microcontrast and color rendition to the DA 12-24, but the DA 12-24 is significantly sharper.
02-27-2014, 09:49 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
Actually, all the ultra wides available for the K-Mount are pretty good. Nor would I say that the DA 12-24 is "not quite good enough," even when factoring in the price (the DA 12-24 is only $100 more expensive than the HD version of the DA 15). Indeed, I've seen nothing online from the Samyang 16/2 or 14/2.8 or the Sigma 8-16 to suggest that they are in the same league as the DA 12-24. The DA 10-17 may have comparable microcontrast and color rendition to the DA 12-24, but the DA 12-24 is significantly sharper.
I agree. My most sold photos were both taken with the DA 12-24 at 12 mm, and enlarged to sizes beyond that supposedly the maximum size of a 10 megapixel sensor. The recent sale mentioned above was printed 19x27 inches (full sensor frame) for a gallery wrap. 1 1/2 inches of the image wrapped around each side of the frame. The other image was printed 20x30 on metallic and was on display in a real estate office where the agents could show the clients where the property was on a picture hanging on the wall. The metallic was to reduce the impact of greasy fingers.
02-27-2014, 11:44 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by moshepupkin Quote
So to summarise I guess you are saying that there is no really such thing as kit with wide angle lens (I have Sigma 17-50 f2.8 and I am looking for a wider lens), right?
You must be after something fairly wide, the sigma is pleny wide for me at the moment and does a good job stopped down at 17mm. From reading posts the diffrence between 15 and 17 is a lot.
02-27-2014, 12:31 PM   #28
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15 to 17 is a lot. You can estimate how significant the difference is (assuming the lenses are both accurately described) as a percentage. from 15mm to 17mm is 13% - significant. From 50-55 is 10%. from 12-15 is 25% - a huge difference in field of view. There are scales on line that give you the degrees for each focal length.
02-27-2014, 06:00 PM - 1 Like   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
Actually, all the ultra wides available for the K-Mount are pretty good. Nor would I say that the DA 12-24 is "not quite good enough," even when factoring in the price (the DA 12-24 is only $100 more expensive than the HD version of the DA 15). Indeed, I've seen nothing online from the Samyang 16/2 or 14/2.8 or the Sigma 8-16 to suggest that they are in the same league as the DA 12-24. The DA 10-17 may have comparable microcontrast and color rendition to the DA 12-24, but the DA 12-24 is significantly sharper.
I have to strongly disagree with you on this one. Ultra wide angle lenses for APS-C are by far the worst class of lens (IQ-wise) on DSLRs.

I carefully studied the DA12-24 (and the competition) before deciding on the DA15. The DA12-24 images just never did it for me. But after reading your comment, I decided I should take a look at it again on the PPG. Still the same conclusion.

And while the DA10-17 images are not truly sharp if you're pixel-peeping, it creates nice photos. I think the color rendering is better than the DA12-24.



But while the some of the specific choices above may be largely a matter of personal preference, I don't know how you can call the weakest class of lenses "all pretty good." Unless you mean it as in "the NBA Atlantic Division is pretty good!?"


There are some great wide angle lenses. The Nikon 14-24 and Sony Zeiss 16-35 are two of them. The DA15 might be great. And the Sigma 8-16 and Tokina 11-16 (not available in K-mount, unfortunately) come close. Even the DA10-17 and Samyangs have their place. But the others fall short, especially the 10-20/22/24 lenses from Sigma, Canon, and Tamron. And you keep finding even more mediocre lenses as you keep looking.
02-27-2014, 06:34 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
I've seen nothing online from the Samyang 16/2 or 14/2.8 or the Sigma 8-16 to suggest that they are in the same league as the DA 12-24.

I think you'd find the Samyang 16/2 fares rather well actually:

http://www.lenstip.com/index.html?test=obiektywu&test_ob=380
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