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04-03-2014, 11:46 AM   #31
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Didn't Pentax recently start going into Best Buy, Target, Walmart, etc? I thought there was a lot of chain stores that started picking up Pentax recently?

04-03-2014, 11:55 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mazhe Quote
Doesn't the nikon F mount use also mechanical aperture control? They don't seem to have problem with them... :/
Yep, I too find that reason to be pretty lame. Sigma has been making Pentax-K lenses with automatic mechanical aperture control for almost 30 years.


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04-03-2014, 11:58 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by ivanvernon Quote
I cannot see the link in your post. My cursor does not react to anything here. Could you or someone else please repost? Thank you very much.
Sigma Q&A Part I: CEO Kazuto Yamaki explains why so few Pentax-mount lenses, and much more
04-03-2014, 01:34 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
We're complaining (or discussing) about Sigma not being interested in the tiny Pentax segment to market more K-mount lenses, right? At least in my region, the giant price increase caused Pentax to suddenly and completely disappear in a vast majority of camera stores that used to carry them. Those two facts happening right after each other could be a coincidence of course.
Well in my litle part of the world - St. Louis, Missouri - a dying, 19th C. industrial city if ever there was one - we've been able to buy Pentax at a 9-store B&M chain every day that I have been alive. Since MAP was enforced the number of Pentax items IN STOCK and the amount of shelf space dedicated to Pentax has increased dramatically. There are other stores that eschew Pentax but that's a branding decision - they want to come off as pro stores and cater to the BMW set.

Enforced List Pricing will eventually lead to more product sales as retailers regain faith in the brand and understand the higher margin available from Pentax. It will take time (in the USA) because dealer trust was horribly damaged by Petnax over an extended period.

I certainly can't know what drives these decisions in EU, but if volume declines and either Canon or Nikon throughput drops through an annual volume breakpoint that might actually HELP Pentax gain distribution.

04-03-2014, 05:01 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
Didn't Pentax recently start going into Best Buy, Target, Walmart, etc? I thought there was a lot of chain stores that started picking up Pentax recently?
Only their 'on-line stores'. Pentax in the US doesn't like to sell retail - its Web only for the majority of us, and B&H/Adorama for those that are in the NYC area.
04-03-2014, 06:39 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by wildman Quote
Maybe it's time for Pentax to modernize without the burden of having to accommodate 35 year old lens'?
Perhaps the K mount is a technological dead-end?
In the commercial world it's grow or die.
Check our recent interview to see what Pentax had to say about that. First they said that they wouldn't de-cripple the lens mount because of the declining number of used lenses, but then when asked about modernization they said backwards-compatibility is a key feature for them.

Personally, even with my collection of over a hundred Pentax K-mount lenses I wouldn't mind picking up a Pentax DSLR with a new lens mount, as long as all lenses have fast/silent AF and at least basic moisture sealing.

QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
Didn't Pentax recently start going into Best Buy, Target, Walmart, etc? I thought there was a lot of chain stores that started picking up Pentax recently?
Just the WG-20 at target AFAIK. Everything else is pretty much online-only.

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04-03-2014, 08:15 PM - 1 Like   #37
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This interview is a bit more verbose than it needs to be.

Q: Why don't you make more lenses for Pentax?
A: We make more money when we make lenses for Nikon and Canon.

If Pentax changes their lense mount it would be the last straw to push me to Canon.
04-03-2014, 10:09 PM - 1 Like   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Since MAP was enforced the number of Pentax items IN STOCK and the amount of shelf space dedicated to Pentax has increased dramatically.
QuoteOriginally posted by formercanuck Quote
Pentax in the US doesn't like to sell retail - its Web only for the majority of us, and B&H/Adorama for those that are in the NYC area.
Well, the only thing I can say there, is that there's a certain amount of creative tension between those two views…

Meanwhile, in the Antipodes, Pentax seems to be alive and well and getting back on shelves, too. We are possibly also lucky that the Australian distributor for Sigma and Pentax is the same company, and I count myself fortunate for picking up the last new K-mount Sigma 8-16 in captivity, from them.

---------- Post added 4th Apr 2014 at 04:12 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by 1r0nh31d3 Quote
This interview is a bit more verbose than it needs to be.

Q: Why don't you make more lenses for Pentax?
A: We make more money when we make lenses for Nikon and Canon.

If Pentax changes their lense mount it would be the last straw to push me to Canon.
Given the relative sales of Pentax to other brands, I'd say they were more than generous with the amount of time they spent talking about the Pentax sales issue.

I don't think you're in danger of moving to Canon on that score, really.

04-03-2014, 10:35 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Check our recent interview to see what Pentax had to say about that. First they said that they wouldn't de-cripple the lens mount because of the declining number of used lenses, but then when asked about modernization they said backwards-compatibility is a key feature for them.
Now they've said that, we may see more K and M lenses

QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Personally, even with my collection of over a hundred Pentax K-mount lenses I wouldn't mind picking up a Pentax DSLR with a new lens mount, as long as all lenses have fast/silent AF and at least basic moisture sealing.
We can have that without changing mount, cant' we? (once again, I never heard nikon users calling for a revolution because their mount is not fully electronic).
04-04-2014, 05:48 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by formercanuck Quote
Only their 'on-line stores'. Pentax in the US doesn't like to sell retail - its Web only for the majority of us, and B&H/Adorama for those that are in the NYC area.
Come to think of it, I said Henry's has be selling Pentax since before 67 so that's near 50 years, but Henry's used to be one store at that time... right now you can buy Pentax stuff at 26 Ontario locations of Henry's, and 5 locations throughout the rest of Canada, as well as 5 or 6 locations for Carmen Photo. With the exception of the time when Toronto Camera did a similar expansion, before going belly up, this is probably the best coverage Pentax has ever had in Ontario. There have been times when Best buy and Futureshop stocked Pentax here, but they never had the options for Pentax, they did for Canon and Nikon. In Futureshop, they stocked Bodies and kit lenses, but little else. Their Sales people would show you a Pentax with kit lens, and then say, "If you buy this Canon you can also get this telephoto lens", and then pretend you couldn't get a 50-200 or 55-300 for a Pentax. If you were salesman, you could sell more if you sold them a Nikon or Canon, it was hardly Pentax's fault. And their prices were ridiculous. I've done walk in sales at least 3 different Henry's locations on spontaneous purchases. I could always save myself 50 bucks by driving down the street to Henry's, at least in Barrie Ontario where it used to be just down the street. Never at Futureshop. If there's a chain that can't sell me Pentax gear from time to time, there's something wrong with them. Just having it in the store counts for nothing.
04-04-2014, 06:08 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by formercanuck Quote
Only their 'on-line stores'. Pentax in the US doesn't like to sell retail - its Web only for the majority of us, and B&H/Adorama for those that are in the NYC area.
That's old news.

It is clear that when Ned Bunnell announced the 'Box Store' strategy, Pentax under Hoya specifically modified its Dealer Agreements and - I've heard - credit terms (the REALLY BIG DEAL) such that nearly every B&M store was forced into the new Distributor model. Adorama, B&H, Crever Couer Camera in St. Louis, Abe's of Maine, Hunt's and a few more continued to stock product but the one-store guy on Main Street just moved on.

Jim Malcolm would love to have Dealers return Pentax to store shelves and Pentax has focused its efforts on dealer distribution to the point that their sales pitch is now about the higher profit margin on their gear. They invested significant money in thier Exhibition and Conference Room space at CES to make exactly that presentation. Unfortunately, Dealers have a long memory and Pentax is not making much headway achieving new Distributions yet. Jim has very openly said it has been much harder to get back in stores than he originally thought it would be, though there have been some promising announcements since the K3 was released..

Hoya and Ned Bunnell essentially poisoned the well, salted the fields - whatever metaphor you want to use - for Pentax in the USA, possibly forever. Pentax may be forced into an internet-only model because no one wants to upset their existing relationships with their current brands, compete with Amazon, Adorama and B&H and take product stocking risk - just to put a great camera and lens line that's an unsupported third-tier brand back in their stores. Ricoh doesn't seem to want to spend marketing money in the USA until volume supports it. We seem to be at an impasse.

As I've written, Dealers seem to be saying, "I'm a chicken. You're an egg. This time the egg has to come first."

Last edited by monochrome; 04-04-2014 at 06:13 AM.
04-04-2014, 07:07 AM - 1 Like   #42
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QuoteQuote:
The answer won't please some people who want the K-mount "un-crippled" but at least it's some straight talking.
I do not see a reason why an "un-crippled" mount would effect anything here. According to Sigma technicians the aperture mechanism is not really a problem. Nikon handels it the same way. The corresponding mechanism there is even more fiddly. The motor and control within Canon units is neither cheaper nor less bulky (however, you gain possible Err99 messages and defects). E.g. Samyang or other "cheap" manufacturers also do not have a problem with the mount.
Sigma + Pentax
QuoteQuote:
Den Blendenhebel als Problem zu benennen ist laut Sigma quatsch,Nikon machts genauso und ist sogar noch etwas fummelliger,alle Optiken der neuen Serie sind mechanisch und elektronisch sofort für Pentax ausführbar,laut Sigma D und EU.
Japanmann war auch den Tag da und hat es nicht verneint,es geht einzig um die Stückzahlen damit es sich lohnt.
Die mechanische Blendenansteuerung bei Pentax ist relativ simpel und benötigt auch nicht mehr Platz als der Stellmptor samt Steuerung bei Canon,hab das an einem kaputten 17-70 mal genauer betrachtet.
Sigma wartet auf eine zu erwartende Menge um einen Produktionslauf zu starten,das wurde mir nicht von der Hotline so gesagt,sondern von denen mit denen ich schon seit vielen Jahren zu tun habe und auch noch nie eine Fehlinfo erhalten habe.
The true reason is:
QuoteQuote:
KY: Yes. So, we'd like to make as many lenses for Pentax as possible, but with very small demand we cannot make them frequently. For such a lens, the long back-order times are a big problem for us. So we cannot make too wide a product line for Pentax. For example, a 300mm f/2.8 -- maybe we can produce this for Pentax once every few months; but some people may need a 300mm f/2.8 now. We cannot make it so often.
DE: Ah -- you can't afford to carry a large inventory given the small sales volume, but you also have a minimum production run that's economically viable. So you end up having long lead times, sometimes. I see, that makes sense, very interesting.
Small sales volume. Solution: Buy more [Sigma] lenses!
QuoteQuote:
If the market share of K mount would be much bigger, you would be suprised how easily they would overcome the "technical" problem.
04-04-2014, 07:19 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by froeschle Quote

Small sales volume. Solution: Buy more [Sigma] lenses!
The solution is to buy more Pentax lenses...
04-04-2014, 07:52 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by froeschle Quote
The true reason is:

Small sales volume. Solution: Buy more [Sigma] lenses!
Which puts us back to the 'Chicken and Egg' issue. Personally, when I'm going to spend + $500 on a camera or lens, I'd like to 'try before I buy'.
I can see it being more common for professionals to say 'I need an 35mm f/1.8' and ordering one and sending it back if its a piece of junk. From a consumer side, its more of a decent sized expense (I.e. I have only red DA-L 18-55, Sigma 18-200 DC, and Rokinon 85mm f/1.4). I'm effectively using LensRentals.com as my 'try before I buy' method. It was decent enough for renting the 18-135mm WR for 3 weeks.
04-04-2014, 08:21 AM   #45
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The solution is to buy the Pentax lenses that suit you and the Sigma lenses that suit you, and let the chips fall where they may. But I have to say, having the Sigma 8-16 and Sigma 70 macro.. I'm not buying another heavy lens, Sigma or Pentax or Tamron or anybody... unless I can get an FA* 300 ƒ2.8 for a steal, and that's like hoping to win the lottery.
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