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05-06-2008, 11:30 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by axl Quote
Is it really about bringing money to them? I thought the point is something else....
anyway lenses cost the same as the bodies, where do you think more money comes from?
QuoteOriginally posted by Geekybiker Quote
In the end, yes. Pentax is a business.

And yes, more money is probably made from lenses. But if screwdrive it holding them back from keeping up with canikon its time to ditch it.
If pentax is trying to pitch this as a new standard zoom, a kit upgrade from the 18-55 (as the 16-45 arguably is) then cost is all important. This lens, if priced correctly could be a big selling point of the system. The mechanics for the screw drive would of course increase costs (both design and manufacture) - this raises the end user cost of the lens.

Like it or not, Pentax needs to grow their market, and the way to do this is to have an affordable SDM offering on the shelf with the camera - merchants will like it, because it's an upsell, and it competes in the midrange where Pentax currently don't have SDM lenses.

Now, if they ever drop the screw drive from the bodies, that will be totally different, and a very sad thing, but given that they're still releasing brand new non SDM lenses I don't think it's exactly imminent...

05-07-2008, 10:19 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by OniFactor Quote
oh em gee! i just bought, like this top of the line copy of windoze vister, and.. like, it TOTALLY isn't backwards compatible with my 386 with 8meg of memory and 2 gig hard drive!


/satire
Hardly any reference, because last time I checked Vista doesn't run properly on any computer...
05-07-2008, 02:24 PM   #33
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Don't get me wrong guys, I'm not against SDM, I think it's great and I see future in it as much as you. I just thought that they will keep the screwdriver too. Would there be problem in it? At least for now, it's been done with DA* so far.
Other thing that crossed my mind: is the new 17-70 going to be APS-C capable only? or will it be able to work on FF? Because I think that sooner or later Pentax will have to buckle down and come out with FF camera. How many more APS-C will be made then? If they will be passed out the same way as as film cameras or screwdriver then DA 17-70 will be usable only on handfull of bodies...
05-07-2008, 02:42 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by axl Quote
Don't get me wrong guys, I'm not against SDM, I think it's great and I see future in it as much as you. I just thought that they will keep the screwdriver too. Would there be problem in it? At least for now, it's been done with DA* so far.
Other thing that crossed my mind: is the new 17-70 going to be APS-C capable only? or will it be able to work on FF? Because I think that sooner or later Pentax will have to buckle down and come out with FF camera. How many more APS-C will be made then? If they will be passed out the same way as as film cameras or screwdriver then DA 17-70 will be usable only on handfull of bodies...
Yes, that's probably what will happen; everything you said.

PS: I'm 99.999% certain the DA 17-70 will NOT be full-frame, but it will certainly get a lot of threads started if it is!

05-07-2008, 03:36 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by axl Quote
Don't get me wrong guys, I'm not against SDM, I think it's great and I see future in it as much as you. I just thought that they will keep the screwdriver too. Would there be problem in it? At least for now, it's been done with DA* so far.
Other thing that crossed my mind: is the new 17-70 going to be APS-C capable only? or will it be able to work on FF? Because I think that sooner or later Pentax will have to buckle down and come out with FF camera. How many more APS-C will be made then? If they will be passed out the same way as as film cameras or screwdriver then DA 17-70 will be usable only on handfull of bodies...
I expect aps-c to live a long time. The trouble being that a FF camera requires a large chunk of silicon to make. While production costs have come down, its not the same as the cost reductions gained through die shrinks on most semi-conductor products. They end up using less silicon. While it'll get easier and cheaper to add more MP to any sensor, actual cost for large sensors will remain high enough to keep them out of the hands of most people for quite awhile.

This basically all means that aps-c will be around for a good while yet, and entrenched enough that it'll be tough to just abandon it entirely when FF sensors do become cheap enough. I suspect that eventually it might be restricted to the starter DSLR bodies, but I wouldn't have fears of being unable to use your reduced image circle lenses anytime soon.
05-09-2008, 12:01 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Geekybiker Quote
I expect aps-c to live a long time. The trouble being that a FF camera requires a large chunk of silicon to make. While production costs have come down, its not the same as the cost reductions gained through die shrinks on most semi-conductor products. They end up using less silicon. While it'll get easier and cheaper to add more MP to any sensor, actual cost for large sensors will remain high enough to keep them out of the hands of most people for quite awhile.

This basically all means that aps-c will be around for a good while yet, and entrenched enough that it'll be tough to just abandon it entirely when FF sensors do become cheap enough. I suspect that eventually it might be restricted to the starter DSLR bodies, but I wouldn't have fears of being unable to use your reduced image circle lenses anytime soon.
I think future then would be in sensors similar to Nikon D3's. It's FF sensor which can be switched to APS-C mode only. It would make sense to do it that way...
05-09-2008, 06:31 AM   #37
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Dropping screw drive support from lenses is a "forwards compatibility" thing. I don't expect Pentax or any other company to support this, but "backwards compatibility" (old lenses on new bodies, which is a Pentax hallmark) I would expect, so the body should always have screw drive.

I didn't expect this until the 60-250, but I'm surprised no one (even RiceHigh) has asked this: w/o needing screwdrive support, that means they can use real ring motors in the lens for better speed (as implied by a previous interview when they said they wouldn't use screw drive on "high performance" lenses). What kind of motor does this lens use? Ring motor or micromotor like the other SDM lenses?
05-09-2008, 02:20 PM   #38
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it sure is fat enough to be ring motor...

05-12-2008, 09:03 AM   #39
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What about it's price?

Has anyone seen it for sale?
12-02-2008, 11:57 AM   #40
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Pentax should forget the poverty-customer reputation and emphasize quality in order to compete. Should be easy to trounce Sony and Oly in the prosumer range...no need for anything at the high end.

They should establish K20D as their price baseline, rebranding the mirror box cheapies as "Samsung."

IMO they'd be smart to sweeten K20D with video to rival Nikon D90, and they should bring out more primes...such as a pancake 14/4.
12-02-2008, 03:25 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by janosh Quote
they should bring out more primes...such as a pancake 14/4.
The 15/4 limited has already been announced and displayed at photokina a couple of months ago. Should be out this spring.
12-03-2008, 08:10 AM   #42
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Our cameras are going to be obsolete sooner or later ... yes, each SDM lens that comes out drops the value of my K100D, but it's dropping anyway - it's 6 MP with no live view, etc, and it's got about 10,000 shutter actuations and counting. So I really don't care.
I also don't care if the next ultra-low-end camera (K3000?) is SDM-only, because I don't plan to buy it. I am a mid-range guy, and I don't believe Pentax will leave me out in the cold with K300D or K400D, it would be totally against their character and would suddenly make them have a very limited lens line.
An SDM-only camera would be marketed mainly towards people who use a kit lens, or possibly a two-lens kit, and nothing else, which is fine. So yes, that's a possibility, but nothing to worry about. The Pentax system is as good an investment as ever.

P.S. 0.31x is not too bad for macro capability - nice.

Last edited by Michael Barker; 12-03-2008 at 08:17 AM.
12-16-2008, 04:39 AM   #43
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Photozone review Pentax SMC DA 17-70mm f/4 AL [IF] SDM - Review / Test Report
12-16-2008, 06:19 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by cpopham Quote
I'd wager they will retain the screw drive on bodies for a long time.
As long as limited lenses are an important part of Pentax profile screw drive focus will stay in new bodies. Perhaps if they could make the SDM engines small enough to fit into a third generation of ltd lenses, but so far the ltd lenses are screw drive because small size is part of their concept and SDM does not fit into small lenses (on the other hand screw drive is pretty fast on these small lenses), so screw drive will stay in the bodies.

Seriously, Pentax offers four normal zoom lenses: 18-55, 16-45, 16-50 and 17-70, over a very wide price and performance range, so I fail to see why it is such a terrible news that the 17-70 is SDM only. But I can of course understand that if you have a K100D and was sawing up for the 17-70, this is a dissapointment. But as someone argued, it does not cost so much to upgrade to K100Dsuper. I'm anyway aiming for the 16-50. I need splashability.
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