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05-05-2008, 09:50 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Igilligan Quote
Back to your ext tube with a M100 F4... One of the issues with ext tubes is loss of light. So an F4 lens needs even more light to get the same shutterspeed when using ext tubes. The longer the ext tube the more the light fall-off. In that case a faster lens of 2.8 could only help. And with bugs it is all about shutterspeed since they are moving.
Just a note here, regardless of whether the lens has it's own focusing internally or uses extension tubes, the F2.8 or F4 is the apature at infinity, as soon as you focus close and increase the image size, the light falls off. try different magnifications on a copy stand, with the same lens and uniform lighting and you will see this. I do agree however, an extra stop hepls not only in shutter speed, but focusing. Note however, with shallow depth of field, macro lenses are generally stopped down anyway to gain depth, therefore you don't have a real advantage with the F2.8 and shutter speed.
QuoteQuote:
Now about other lenses to consider. For AF options the two you mention are very good along with the Sigma 105.
I have the MF Vivitar 105 and I really like it. A cult classic that deserves its reputation.

If you are not in a hurry you can watch the forum market place for one of the old manual ones... That what I did, I just used my 50-200 + raynox 250 until I finally found the vivitar for sale. The raynox 250 was about 40 dollars and mounts on just about any of the your old lenses. It is a fun option till the lens you want shows up.

Or you can just get the tamron 90 with the $90 rebate. It is a great lens...
Both these are good points, get something workable until you get what you really want. The more you play, the more yoou learn, and what you learn might just shape your future purpose a little.

05-05-2008, 04:09 PM   #17
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I already own the 100 f4 and i made an ext. tube by taking the glass out of an old 2X teleconverter. I guess I need to try it again.
05-05-2008, 04:12 PM   #18
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The thing is I've tried looking for the older macro on and off for about two years and could not find one for sale.
05-05-2008, 05:20 PM   #19
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Thanks for all your information.

QuoteQuote:
If you are not in a hurry you can watch the forum market place for one of the old manual ones... That what I did, I just used my 50-200 + raynox 250 until I finally found the vivitar for sale. The raynox 250 was about 40 dollars and mounts on just about any of the your old lenses. It is a fun option till the lens you want shows up.
May I know what is the working distance when you couple the raynox with the DA50-200?

QuoteQuote:
Practically speaking, I'd recommend that you get a lens with at least an A setting (PK-A mount) for the aperture for the very simple reason that macro photography relies a lot on aperture control to manage depth of field. Being able to shoot in aperture priority for shy and fast moving macro subjects like butterflies is a definite advantage.
Sorry I am not very good at this. PK-A mount is MF but with aperture control right? similar to Takumar 135/f2.5?

In the meantime I will try to search if the Cosina/Vivitar/Pentax FA100mm f/3.5 is on sale in ebay.

Thanks everyone again.

05-05-2008, 06:55 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by raider Quote
Thanks for all your information.
Sorry I am not very good at this. PK-A mount is MF but with aperture control right? similar to Takumar 135/f2.5?
A lens that has the A setting on the aperture ring allows use of all the exposure modes available as selection of the aperture is done on the camera body and not by the aperture ring itself. PK-A mount lenses can be identified by the A setting on the lens aperture ring and will also have lens contact pins on the lens mount.

I don't believe the Takumar 135/f2.5 has any A setting as it is a much older design.

Personally I do wish that Tokina release their AT-X 100mm f/2.8 Macro in Pentax mount. It is a great lens and does seem to edge the Tamron 90mm optically and in build quality. A comparison here:

yˆ’B~ˆ‚ƒŒƒ“ƒY‚—~‚‚ƒb!zƒgƒLƒi[ AT-X M100 PRO D
05-05-2008, 08:32 PM   #21
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Raider...

Raider wrote:Thanks for all your information.
May I know what is the working distance when you couple the raynox with the DA50-200?



About 5 to 6 inches focus distance on the 50-200 + raynox...

Here is a quick test shot at 50mm
Attachment 11788

Here is a 100mm
Attachment 11789

Here is 200mm
Attachment 11790

This is just a quick test for you...
There are some really nice macro shots done with the 50-200 + raynox 250 on this forum and on DPR if you do a seach.

I used this combo for fun until I found my Series 1
05-05-2008, 10:02 PM   #22
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I've been looking for a FA 100mm f2.8 but when one showed up on Ebay recently it went for just over $500 USD! That is more than the "buy now" prices for the DFA version.

I hope Pentax is paying attention.
05-05-2008, 11:13 PM   #23
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Thank you Igilligan for taking the effort to take those pictures. They are very helpful. The IQ is great too!

I suppose the raynox + DA50-200 will only be useful for static macro as the 5-6 inches working distance is really difficult (if not impossible) for taking macro of bugs and butterflies.

05-05-2008, 11:21 PM   #24
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QuoteQuote:
A lens that has the A setting on the aperture ring allows use of all the exposure modes available as selection of the aperture is done on the camera body and not by the aperture ring itself. PK-A mount lenses can be identified by the A setting on the lens aperture ring and will also have lens contact pins on the lens mount.
Thanks creampuff for the explanation. I will try searching for used lenses on ebay. The last resort for me would be to get the Tamron 90...this is not cheap and I am trying to put off buying if I can.
05-05-2008, 11:29 PM   #25
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You can use it for bugs...

QuoteOriginally posted by raider Quote
Thank you Igilligan for taking the effort to take those pictures. They are very helpful. The IQ is great too!

I suppose the raynox + DA50-200 will only be useful for static macro as the 5-6 inches working distance is really difficult (if not impossible) for taking macro of bugs and butterflies.
It is less than perfect but, you can get bugs with it.

The tamron 70-300 has a macro function in the 180-300mm range and you are a three feet away... tripod only...
05-06-2008, 12:51 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Igilligan Quote
It is less than perfect but, you can get bugs with it.

The tamron 70-300 has a macro function in the 180-300mm range and you are a three feet away... tripod only...
Ohh . . .congrats on that photo . I am impressed!! Got a Sigma 105 F2.8 but had no luck gettings shots like this one. Need more practice I suspect and maybe a garden with better flowers

Edit note: Mostly more practice . . .
05-06-2008, 03:32 AM   #27
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Great pic!

This is done using the Tamron 70-300 and not the DA50-200 with raynox, right? Kinda confused here.

QuoteOriginally posted by Igilligan Quote
It is less than perfect but, you can get bugs with it.

The tamron 70-300 has a macro function in the 180-300mm range and you are a three feet away... tripod only...
05-06-2008, 10:13 AM   #28
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Raider, Some examples...

Sorry for the confusion it is the DA with the raynox...

The Tamron as I mentioned needs a few feet minumum focus distance... which sounds good, but in reality it almost always needs a tripod for me to get sharp shots with it. And for the kind of bug hunting I do in the back yard, it is all about quick, in the bushes kind of shooting and I find the tripod a bit limiting. That being said, all of the great bugger's probably shoot with tripods..

Here is a couple from my early days with the tamron 70-300





Lots of folks have way better examples than I do with the tamron macro capabilities. I only used it as a macro for a couple of days before I started testing my DA50-200 with the raynox and Sony 3358. And then on to some ext tubes.

That reminds me... the Canon 250/150 and sony 3358 have less magnification than the Raynox 250 so the working distance and DOF is greater, with a little less magnification. Also Raynox makes a 150 that may be more usable too. I just used the raynox 250 and sony 3358 because I had them from my P&S collection.

After all my experiments with Front mount Diopter lenses and extension tubes I decided I wanted a true macro lens so I started with a M50 F4 then got the series 1 90mm and 105...

Here are few from the 105














No matter which options you choose, the macro shooting just opens up a fun world... And almost all of the macro lenses are pretty good glass.

As I mentioned before, I dont think anyone can go wrong with the Tamron 90mm and the $90 dollar rebate that they have on it... It is a very good macro lens and a good AF portrait prime... I wish I had one... but the old 'A' macros are also great options if you have the patience to find one.

But the raynox 250/150 options are fun/cheap ways to start shooting...

gus
05-06-2008, 05:18 PM   #29
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Thanks very much for those pictures. They all look very good to me.
05-06-2008, 05:31 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by wiseman Quote
I've been looking for a FA 100mm f2.8 but when one showed up on Ebay recently it went for just over $500 USD! That is more than the "buy now" prices for the DFA version.

I hope Pentax is paying attention.
IIRC, that's around what I paid new for my FA 100/2.8 about 2 years ago. It took a while to find it, but it is a superb lens, no question. I have some recent images, but they are from the competition, so I will not be posting anything until the competition is finished and I've submitted my portfolio.

Sharpness is excellent, and my choice when light gets too low for the FA* 200/4, or I don't have a tripod! I still prefer the narrower FOV of the longer lens though....

Regards,
Marc

Last edited by Marc Langille; 05-06-2008 at 05:38 PM. Reason: clarification
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